iPhone 15 Pro Max 480 Hz PWM

[jm31828]

My theory is that apple was experimenting with synced PWM, matching it to the refresh rate. If you look at the graphs they look much closer to DC dimming than other iPhones.

Oh interesting.... I am not an expert on this by any means, but if it's synced with the refresh rate, there is still a flicker, correct? I mean my wife has a 14 Plus, and if I take a slow-mo video of it, I still see flicker on it like I do on other OLED iPhones- though it admittedly doesn't look as bad as others.

I just don't quite understand what that achieves (or attempts to achieve)- I might just be dense. lol

 

[du57in]

Oh interesting.... I am not an expert on this by any means, but if it's synced with the refresh rate, there is still a flicker, correct? I mean my wife has a 14 Plus, and if I take a slow-mo video of it, I still see flicker on it like I do on other OLED iPhones- though it admittedly doesn't look as bad as others.

I just don't quite understand what that achieves (or attempts to achieve)- I might just be dense. lol

I have a very loose understanding of half of this stuff at best.

My only real attempt at trying to learn more hit a bit of a roadblock.

Read this link for more: https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6519&sid=f5083872faa4b9fc54f804da09fb0a2d

 

[arw]

Problem is, for me when doing that the screen looks so bright it's like staring at the sun- I can't really use these with brightness above 20% or so (at least indoors, especially in the evening when it's not super bright in the house).

Have you tried combining it with the "Reduce White Point" Accessibility feature to achieve a comfortable brightness level? Various triggers can be used to toggle the setting via a Shortcut.

 

[jm31828]

Have you tried combining it with the "Reduce White Point" Accessibility feature to achieve a comfortable brightness level? Various triggers can be used to toggle the setting via a Shortcut.

Yeah, and that definitely helps- but I know reduced white point settings also impact PWM, the higher you go on reduced white point the worse the PWM gets from what I understand, so it's sort of a catch 22.

I wish they simply made neutral density types of screen protectors that darken it, so you can set brightness at say, 95% and then put the screen protector on the phone to darken it down to a reasonable level.

 

[gigapocket1]

There’s only been one iPhone that I couldn’t use. I believe it was the 12 pro max…. It was also weird because it flickered in a different direction as well. Like instead of top to bottom it went bottom to top or something like that.

 

[snipr125]

Yeah, and that definitely helps- but I know reduced white point settings also impact PWM, the higher you go on reduced white point the worse the PWM gets from what I understand, so it's sort of a catch 22.

I wish they simply made neutral density types of screen protectors that darken it, so you can set brightness at say, 95% and then put the screen protector on the phone to darken it down to a reasonable level.

You are completely right JM regarding the White Point levels, but i managed to get it just about right so that the screen was not too bright and blinding me, and to the point where the white point setting did not trigger flickering.

 

[snipr125]

You haven’t read our thread. Probably the longest on this forum and MR still hasn’t uploaded an article.

I have been following the PWM thread for a long time DJ, but i was just stating what worked for me. It has worked for some people, but not others I completely understand that. I got lucky as I was on the verge of returning my 12 Mini (my first OLED iPhone) and going back to my flicker free eyeball friendly SE2 with its LCD display.

 

[DJTaurus]

I have been following the PWM thread for a long time DJ, but i was just stating what worked for me. It has worked for some people, but not others I completely understand that. I got lucky as I was on the verge of returning my 12 Mini (my first OLED iPhone) and going back to my flicker free eyeball friendly SE2 with its LCD display.

I tried even reduce white point at 80% and never worked.

 

[john g.]

My theory is that apple was experimenting with synced PWM, matching it to the refresh rate. If you look at the graphs they look much closer to DC dimming than other iPhones.

I've heard this mentioned before and been curious about it.
I am definitely sensitive to OLED screens. My symptoms are not headaches, but more nausea and dizziness and eyestrain.
All I know is that I tried every single model of the 14 lineup last year and the only one that I got along with and that I still have is the vanilla iPhone 14 model. Got it in March and still my daily user.

 

[jm31828]

I've heard this mentioned before and been curious about it.
I am definitely sensitive to OLED screens. My symptoms are not headaches, but more nausea and dizziness and eyestrain.
All I know is that I tried every single model of the 14 lineup last year and the only one that I got along with and that I still have is the vanilla iPhone 14 model. Got it in March and still my daily user.

Interesting! How quickly do your symptoms come on with other models, and how bad are they?

And on the 14, do you have to set brightness just right, or does it work for you at any brightness level?

 

[du57in]

I've heard this mentioned before and been curious about it.
I am definitely sensitive to OLED screens. My symptoms are not headaches, but more nausea and dizziness and eyestrain.
All I know is that I tried every single model of the 14 lineup last year and the only one that I got along with and that I still have is the vanilla iPhone 14 model. Got it in March and still my daily user.

Was the Plus similar for you?

 

[john g.]

Interesting! How quickly do your symptoms come on with other models, and how bad are they?

And on the 14, do you have to set brightness just right, or does it work for you at any brightness level?

The symptoms that I have encountered really vary between devices. The 14 pros were not good for me and I suspected that I didn't deal with promotion very well. I had a 13 mini briefly that I tried out that gave me moderate symptoms after about a week. Then again, my mother-in-law has a 13 that I can't even look at for more than a couple minutes without feeling really nauseous. I suspect that there's some screen lottery involved.

For my 14 I'm not picky about the brightness I just usually don't run it lower than 30 or 40%. I do have reduce white point on standard at 25%. I could probably have that off but I feel like the OLED screens feel unnecessarily harsh and bright in most conditions if I don't have that enabled.

 

[john g.]

Was the Plus similar for you?

There were also other things going on for me when I was trying out these phones. I figured out that the promotion on the pro models exacerbated my motion sickness tendencies. I also found out that even though I used glass screen protectors on all the LCD phones, they made weird reflections for me with OLED screens. At first, I tried matte anti-glare screens, and that helped a bit but white screen areas looked crappy. Then I saw a suggestion on the forums to not have a screen protector on and I tried that, and that was the ticket for me.

Using glass clear screen protectors are too reflective for me and exacerbate whatever problems I'm having with OLED. When I tried the Plus model I didn't know about the no screen protector tweak so I had minor symptoms.
I haven't tried a Plus without a screen protector because I settled on the regular size being better for me.
I would suspect that I wouldn't have a problem with it without a screen protector.

However, the final thing is that I think that there is also some screen lottery.
Sometimes some screens are just easier on the eyes than other. Good luck!

 

[Maven1975]

480 is still way to low of a frequency. What a shame, but not surprising either.

 

[epictempo]

480 is still way to low of a frequency. What a shame, but not surprising either.

I’m ready to be be disappointed yet again and one more year with my poor old 11, it’ll be a very late retirement for her. 😂

 

[istvi]

In fact, this is bad, the apple does not pay attention to the problem with the pwm, the iPhone 13 apparently also has a frequency of 500, but my eyes also strain, so there is no improvement, I think that the frequency should be raised to at least 1000, as the Chinese do..I would be happy if apple added a programmatic way (at least) DC DIMMING, but even this is not there...

 

[Martius]

PWM is the only reason I have never upgraded to OLED iPhone and I never will, if it's still there in those low frequencies.

A lot of people say that only a minority of people is PWM sensitive, but it is probably much bigger problem than manufacturers realize. Most of the people are unaware of this problem, which doesn't mean it's not causing them health issues.

If Apple cares so much about our health in general, they should also care about their products causing health problems. It's just such hypocrisy.

 

[istvi]

PWM is the only reason I have never upgraded to OLED iPhone and I never will, if it's still there in those low frequencies.

A lot of people say that only a minority of people is PWM sensitive, but it is probably much bigger problem than manufacturers realize. Most of the people are unaware of this problem, which doesn't mean it's not causing them health issues.

If Apple cares so much about our health in general, they should also care about their products causing health problems. It's just such hypocrisy.

I don't believe that only 5% of people are sensitive to flicker, it's not true, I know many people who don't understand why they have headaches or eyes. never heard of pwm in their life

 

[Martius]

I don't believe that only 5% of people are sensitive to flicker, it's not true, I know many people who don't understand why they have headaches or eyes. never heard of pwm in their life

Yes, that's what I mean.

 

[kiddlattimer]

Anyone try them in person yet? Curious how the flicker is

 

[melliflu]

	100%	75%	50%	25%	RWP 25%	RWP50%	RWP 75%	RWP 90%
iPhone 14	5.27%	9.55%	9.30%	10.5%	5.25%	5.07%	5.67%	7.21%
iPhone 14 Plus	5.08%	9.86%	9.90%	10.5%	4.93%	4.85%	5.39%	6.95%
iPhone 14 Pro Max	11.9%	13.5%	16.1%	18.2%	12.4%	13.3%	14.7%	17.0%

iPhone 15	Pro Max	100% 433 Lux	75% 210 Lux	50% 70 Lux	25% 35 Lux	RWP25%	RWP50%	RWP75%	RWP90%
		11.14%	13.54%	19.33%	63.79%	11.17%	12.01%	15.07%	19.26%

Update to pwm away table, with Opple Light Master G3 flicker tool ($50).
True tone and Night Shift off. RWP= reduced white point with brightness at 100%.
Measuring tool is placed exactly 2cm above Oled screen in dark room. Under 12% is considered No Risk.
Tool measured brightness in Lux too. Surpringly my 11 LCD was measured at 400 Lux at 100%, 433 Lux for 15PM.

In conclusion 15 PM is very similar to 14 PM, not better. Their frequencies are both 480 Hz.

 

[PwmMen]

I've now tested my iPhone 15 Pro Max for 2,5 hours straight and can say,
that it is a huge step forward from the iPhone 13/14 Pro Max. I can't feel my eyes.
No matter what was measured here, Apple must have done something so that the iPhone 15 Pro Max is excellent.
I will definitely keep it and can finally switch from my iPhone 12 Pro to a current iPhone.
I can only advise everyone else here to at least try it with the new iPhones.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I've now tested my iPhone 15 Pro Max for 2,5 hours straight and can say,
that it is a huge step forward from the iPhone 13/14 Pro Max. I can't feel my eyes.
No matter what was measured here, Apple must have done something so that the iPhone 15 Pro Max is excellent.
I will definitely keep it and can finally switch from my iPhone 12 Pro to a current iPhone.
I can only advise everyone else here to at least try it with the new iPhones.

I’m happy for you but give it at least a day.

Personally, I see zero difference from last year (or the year before) but reading you can use the 12 Pro and I can't use any OLED iPhone, your sensitivity is lesser.

 

[Torty]

I've now tested my iPhone 15 Pro Max for 2,5 hours straight and can say,
that it is a huge step forward from the iPhone 13/14 Pro Max. I can't feel my eyes.
No matter what was measured here, Apple must have done something so that the iPhone 15 Pro Max is excellent.
I will definitely keep it and can finally switch from my iPhone 12 Pro to a current iPhone.
I can only advise everyone else here to at least try it with the new iPhones.

Isn’t the Display the same? So maybe it’s a psychological thing? If you think something is good then it’s good.

 

[istvi]

Хіба дисплей не той самий? То може це психологічна річ? Якщо ви вважаєте щось хорошим, то це добре.

Ну по ідеї має бути інакше (яскравості додали)