MP 1,1-5,1 5.1. Random Shutdown problems!

[h9826790]

Hi Guy, I'v same Mac (5.1, dual intel x5690, Shappire Pulse x580) with random SHUTDOWM when stressed run. -- Testing with Geekbrench 5 shutdown . Fans normally running ok, I've never ear it, I've dual cable, and I've two thing to pay attention a) over Sahppire I've a Lycom NVme, tap 50% fan b) Mac are connected and UPS APC... any tips could you give to avoid this shutdown?? thk. a lot

1st thing to try, remove the UPS.

I expect you mean that you have a dual mini 6pin to feed the RX580. But you stoop better to post a photo here, just in case we can spot something wrong.

last but not least, shutdown during GB5, which test? CPU or GPU?

 

[Snow Tiger]

Edit: I changed the topic to match the following discussion better

Hi-ho folks!

I have a Frankenstein-Mac Pro 5.1 2009 which has 2 x Intel Xeon X5690 3.46GHz processors in it. (Mojave on NVMe PCI-e disk and the boot ROM naturally 144.0.0.0.0)

I did have some random and shudden shutdowns - which I now believe are connected to Radeon RX 580 for its poor ventilation because of the very large double NVMe -board right on the slot above of the GPU - but after installing the Macs Fan Control, I noticed that the temperature of the CPU A Core from PCECI runs around 15 celsius degrees higher than the temperature of the CPU B core from PCECI.

Why so and is it normal?

I changed the processors myself and added the thermal compound around equal amount on both.

Thanks for answers.

OP - did you solve your issue ?
[automerge]1577292136[/automerge]

Thanks. When stressed (Premiere CC running) the temperatures were at their highest:

Northbridge Diode 78 celsius
Northbridge Heatsink 64 celsius

Those are acceptable temps for the NB at load , however I'd run those numbers again with Hardware Monitor from Bresink as I trust his program better .

Hardware Monitor: Description

Product description for Hardware Monitor

www.bresink.com

Also , he stopped supporting Mac models after 2016 , sadly . He stated it was getting too difficult .

Also , its only a matter of time before your Northbridge fails due to dried thermal paste ( it must be kept moist ) as the NB is the hottest chip in your Mac model . If you love your Mac please learn how to service the Northbridge Controller Heatsink .

 

[MIKX]

I power my MSI Armor RX 580 8gb through an EVGa PowerLink.

LINK : https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-PowerLink-Support-Founders-600-PL-2816-LR/dp/B01MQ1YEYH

Power to the RX580 TO the PowerLink.

1. One DUAL Mini 6 pin to ONE 8 pin cable

plus

2. TWO x SATA to ONE by 6 pin to the PowerLink

=======================================

Power FROM the PowerLink TO the RX 580 8gb

3. ONE by female 8 pin to MALE 8 pin cable TO the RX 580.

No shutdowns under any stress tests.

 

[Snow Tiger]

I power my MSI Armor RX 580 8gb through an EVGa PowerLink.

LINK : https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-PowerLink-Support-Founders-600-PL-2816-LR/dp/B01MQ1YEYH

Power to the RX580 TO the PowerLink.

1. One DUAL Mini 6 pin to ONE 8 pin cable

plus

2. TWO x SATA to ONE by 6 pin to the PowerLink

=======================================

Power FROM the PowerLink TO the RX 580 8gb

3. ONE by female 8 pin to MALE 8 pin cable TO the RX 580.

No shutdowns under any stress tests.

View attachment 884721

Those SATA power backplanes will provide 33 W each and provide a very reliable source of auxiliary power . However , I don't remember using more than two at any one time for a total of 66 W .

 

[Thekidbass]

Hi Guy, I'v same Mac (5.1, dual intel x5690, Shappire Pulse x580) with random SHUTDOWM when stressed run. -- Testing with Geekbrench 5 shutdown . Fans normally running ok, I've never ear it, I've dual cable, and I've two thing to pay attention a) over Sahppire I've a Lycom NVme, tap 50% fan b) Mac are connected and UPS APC... any tips could you give to avoid this shutdown?? thk. a lot

I have very similar 5,1 machine. Dual intel x5690 with the RX580 dual NVME it's dual envy ME drives on the PCI slot and I'm having the random shutdown as well

 

[h9826790]

I have very similar 5,1 machine. Dual intel x5690 with the RX580 dual NVME it's dual envy ME drives on the PCI slot and I'm having the random shutdown as well

Did you check the temperatures?

 

[avro707]

I have very similar 5,1 machine. Dual intel x5690 with the RX580 dual NVME it's dual envy ME drives on the PCI slot and I'm having the random shutdown as well

Try watching on Macs Fan Control - maybe something overheating?

This is mine for reference, also dual X5690, 128GB ram and RX580 in a warm room, but not running flat out. I've replaced the thermal grease on the North Bridge already and put new push-pins (using the original springs).

This isn't under heavy load though. The max I see from NB Diode is about 72-75ºC under heavy load.

I've just accepted that it's the way it is and these dual processor machines run hotter. But even under a stress test it hasn't shut down. it makes a bit of noise but it's dependable and hasn't shut down. And it is fast.

I have a Sonnet NVME card in the PCI-E slot 1 and the GPU in slot 2. Otherwise the GPU airflow is blocked by the Sonnet card. Putting the sonnet up in an X4 slot drops the speed to about 1300mb/s, down from the normal 2700mb/s (not using RAID0).

There is a modification I've seen by getting an aftermarket Northbridge heatsink and hack that apart and combine it with the stock Northbridge heatsink (using thermal adhesive) that aims to increase the cooling. How effective it is I'm not sure.

 

[Thekidbass]

Did you check the temperatures?

Yes. Here are two screen shots of the Macs Fan Control. The temps are normal.

 

[Thekidbass]

Yes. Here are two screen shots of the Macs Fan Control. The temps are normal.

I've repasted the CPUs & Northbridge in August of this year. I'm suspecting it is a faulty Power Supply. I purchased one from Ebay yesterday. Waiting on it two swap it out to see if that is the cause of the abrupt shutdowns. I can't use the machine the way it is shutting down within two minutes after booting idling with no apps open.

 

[Thekidbass]

I have a StarTech dual NVMe PCIe card adapter housing two Samsung 970 PRO 1 TB drives:High Sierra & Mojave OS on slot 1 & Radeon RX580 on slot 2.

 

[Thekidbass]

I have a StarTech dual NVMe PCIe card adapter housing two Samsung 970 PRO 1 TB drives:High Sierra & Mojave OS on slot 1 & Radeon RX580 on slot 2.

I've switched the NVMe adapter card to slot 1 after taking the photo of the tower

 

[h9826790]

Yes. Here are two screen shots of the Macs Fan Control. The temps are normal.

No, the temperatures aren't normal in the send screen capture. Both CPU A and the associated heatsink temperatures are missing.

This could be a problem. However, in general, that should only lead to high fan speed, but not random shutdown.

Therefore, the PSU still a potential suspect. If you have ordered a spare one, it's good to see how's the swap test result. But even we know it's the PSU, you should still fix that missing readings.

 

[Thekidbass]

No, the temperatures aren't normal in the send screen capture. Both CPU A and the associated heatsink temperatures are missing.

This could be a problem. However, in general, that should only lead to high fan speed, but not random shutdown.

Therefore, the PSU still a potential suspect. If you have ordered a spare one, it's good to see how's the swap test result. But even we know it's the PSU, you should still fix that missing readings.

No, the temperatures aren't normal in the send screen capture. Both CPU A and the associated heatsink temperatures are missing.

This could be a problem. However, in general, that should only lead to high fan speed, but not random shutdown.

Therefore, the PSU still a potential suspect. If you have ordered a spare one, it's good to see how's the swap test result. But even we know it's the PSU, you should still fix that missing readings.

 

[Thekidbass]

On the 2nd screen shot (10-17-2021) CPU A and Heatsink temps are there. I suspect because of all the constant shutdowns, one after the other, even the Macs Fan Control app was acting erratically. My custom settings that I had setup, after the 2nd screenshot I took, reverted back to "auto" on all fields, which I found very odd.

 

[KeesMacPro]

I'm having the random shutdown as well

To troubleshoot this I'd start eliminating possible suspects first.
There are too many possibilities and different issues going on.

Here are two screen shots of the Macs Fan Control. The temps are normal.

As stated by @h9826790 CPU A heatsink and diode were missing in one screenshot.
This is not a MacsFanControl glitch or PSU related issue.

I'm suspecting it is a faulty Power Supply.

That's possible, let's see what happens after the PSU swap.

I've switched the NVMe adapter card to slot 1 after taking the photo of the tower

According to the picture post #35 the Startech was installed in slot 3 (not slot 2). This is a x8 slot but this NVMe card needs a 2.0 x16 slot i.e slot 1 or 2.
You mentioned installing it in slot 1 , did this make any difference?

On the 2nd screen shot (10-17-2021) CPU A and Heatsink temps are there. I suspect because of all the constant shutdowns, one after the other, even the Macs Fan Control app was acting erratically. My custom settings that I had setup, after the 2nd screenshot I took, reverted back to "auto" on all fields, which I found very odd.

This is very odd.
Are you running multiple fan control software e.g MFC , iStatsmenu etc?
How did you install Mojave i.e. is it a patched install / following the HWacceleration thread or similar?
What BootROM version are you running?

As a summory I'd start methodically by :

- erase all fan control software, do a SMC and triple NVRAM reset and reinstall MacsFanControl (just to be sure MFC is not corrupted and the only one running).
- reseat/repaste CPU A (Temp readings should be there under any circumstances), are all RAM modules shown in e.g. "about this Mac"?
- a clean install of Mojave on one of the blades (to eliminate a corrupted OS).
- a clean install of Mojave on a SATA drive or on a NVMe blade with a single adapter card e.g. KRYO m.2 (to eliminate Startech as a suspect).
- test new PSU

 

[Thekidbass]

To troubleshoot this I'd start eliminating possible suspects first.
There are too many possibilities and different issues going on.

As stated by @h9826790 CPU A heatsink and diode were missing in one screenshot.
This is not a MacsFanControl glitch or PSU related issue.
You may have to reseat and repaste CPU A.

That's possible, let's see what happens after the PSU swap.

The Startech was installed in slot 3 (not slot 2). This is a x8 slot but it needs a x16 slot i.e slot 1 or 2.
You mentioned installing it in slot 1 , did this make any difference?

This is very odd.
Are you running multiple fan control software e.g MFC , iStatsmenu etc?
How did you install Mojave i.e. is it a patched install / following the HWacceleration thread or similar?
What BootROM version are you running?

As a summory I'd start methodically by :
- reseat/repaste CPU A (Temp readings should be there under any circumstances).
- erase all fan control software, do a triple NVRAM reset and reinstall MacsFanControl (just to be sure MFC is not corrupted and the only one running).
- a clean install of Mojave on one of the blades (to eliminate a corrupted OS).
- a clean install of Mojave on a SATA drive or on a NVMe blade with a single adapter card e.g. KRYO m.2 (to eliminate Startech as a suspect).
- test new PSU

I'm only running Macs Fan control which was working fine, showing CPU A heatsink and diode until the constant shutdown started to occur. As far as Mojave install, it was not a patch since updating the rom to 144. (don't remember the exact digitals after the 144). I repasted both CPUs and northbridge in August of this year. The Startech adpater card I originally had it in slot 2 but saw that it was too close to the GPU fan so I moved it to slot 3 but after reading a post here on Mac Rumors, I moved it to slot 1 and moved the GPU to slot 2. It made no difference as far as the abrupt shutdowns.

 

[KeesMacPro]

There is a modification I've seen by getting an aftermarket Northbridge heatsink and hack that apart and combine it with the stock Northbridge heatsink (using thermal adhesive) that aims to increase the cooling. How effective it is I'm not sure.

As lots of others, I've been experimenting a lot with fan settings and heat management in the MP4,1/5,1.
Especially the NB heatsink construction is IMO a weak part of the further very effective cooling concept in the cMP (if fans are set up in an effective way).
Lots of potential 3rd party replacement heatsinks for the NB I've found are no longer available.

I'm very curious about the mod you mentioned (I suppose this involves modifying the CPU A heatsink too ) , could you post a link please?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Thekidbass]

I'm only running Macs Fan control which was working fine, showing CPU A heatsink and diode until the constant shutdown started to occur. As far as Mojave install, it was not a patch since updating the rom to 144. (don't remember the exact digitals after the 144). I repasted both CPUs and northbridge in August of this year. The Startech adpater card I originally had it in slot 2 but saw that it was too close to the GPU fan so I moved it to slot 3 but after reading a post here on Mac Rumors, I moved it to slot 1 and moved the GPU to slot 2. It made no difference as far as the abrupt shutdowns.

Both High Sierra and Mojave OS on the StarTech dual NVMe PCIe adapter card have been working fine since I installed the adapter card in Sept. of 2020

 

[Thekidbass]

As lots of others, I've been experimenting a lot with fan settings and heat management in the MP4,1/5,1.
Especially the NB heatsink construction is IMO a weak part of the further very effective cooling concept in the cMP (if fans are set up in an effective way).
Lots of potential 3rd party replacement heatsinks for the NB I've found are no longer available.

I'm very curious about the mod you mentioned (I suppose this involves modifying the CPU A heatsink too ) , could you post a link please?
Thanks in advance.

I did not modify the CPU A heatsink. I just repasted it. The northbridge heat sink I replaced the spring rivet pins with better ones that seat anchors better than the original ones. I just had to trim it.

 

[Thekidbass]

I did not modify the CPU A heatsink. I just repasted it. The northbridge heat sink I replaced the spring rivet pins with better ones that seat anchors better than the original ones. I just had to trim it.

Here is the amazon link. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LAVCXVG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[KeesMacPro]

I did not modify the CPU A heatsink. I just repasted it. The northbridge heat sink I replaced the spring rivet pins with better ones that seat anchors better than the original ones. I just had to trim it.

My post was adressed to @avro707 and referring to a different topic.

 

[Thekidbass]

This is the youtube tutorial where I came across these spring rivet fasteners. "Repasting Northbridge".

 

[Thekidbass]

My post was adressed to @avro707 and referring to a different topic.

Oh ok. My apologies.

 

[KeesMacPro]

Oh ok. My apologies.

No problem at all

 

[avro707]

As lots of others, I've been experimenting a lot with fan settings and heat management in the MP4,1/5,1.
Especially the NB heatsink construction is IMO a weak part of the further very effective cooling concept in the cMP (if fans are set up in an effective way).
Lots of potential 3rd party replacement heatsinks for the NB I've found are no longer available.

I'm very curious about the mod you mentioned (I suppose this involves modifying the CPU A heatsink too ) , could you post a link please?
Thanks in advance.

Here it is, found via the ifixit site:

Dropbox - Error - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

It's a very lengthy document so go near the end of it. I've got the heatsinks mentioned, they are actually intended for the Northbridge but probably for something non-Apple Mac Pro. You are hacking that heatsink apart and then bonding it to the standard Northbridge heatsink with a thermal adhesive. It's a very narrow extra heatsink so it will sit outside of the regular CPU heatsink. This is only for Dual CPU systems obviously.

If I could find a standard Mac Pro 5,1 northbridge heatsink on its own I'd give this a go and see how it works.

My work tomorrow night is going to be rigging up a small Noctua 40mm x 10mm fan powered from a SATA port and using that to push more air over the NB heatsink. That should be a fairly simple thing to see if there is any benefit. I'll put my results up here.

I'd be very interested to see the 3rd party replacement heatsinks you mentioned (even if they aren't available).

It does look to be a real weak point compared to the CPUs for instance, on mine the CPUs run quite cool and there is only a pretty small difference between the CPU and heatsink temperature - so those are working perfectly.

This is the "donor" heatsink that will be pulled apart. The fins on this will be bonded to the standard NB heatsink in the modification proposed in the document above.