596 other People opt in Class Action Suite against Apple.

[mkrishnan]

If you believe employees can use Apple for the work they did while off the clock, why can't Apple countersue the employees for the work they didn't do while on the clock....all the bathroom breaks, all the coffee breaks, all the web surfing, all the chatting, etc?

That's really not the way US Labor Law for hourly-wage employees works... for instance, just today, there was a study published about the frequency with which individuals earning at or near minimum wage are paid less than they are legally owed...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/us/02wage.html?hpw

Low-wage workers are routinely denied proper overtime pay and are often paid less than the minimum wage, according to a new study based on a survey of workers in New York, Los Angeles and Chicago.

The study, the most comprehensive examination of wage-law violations in a decade, also found that 68 percent of the workers interviewed had experienced at least one pay-related violation in the previous work week.

The study was conducted multi-site by major universities, and while I haven't seen the whole report yet, it looks reasonably credible.

It's common -- it's certainly not a case of Apple being an evil standout, but it doesn't seem like a case where there is absolutely no prima facie claim, either. For salaried workers (like myself), I do generally buy the pinch here, pinch there type of argument, but these individuals earn a lot less money than we do.

 

[The Reverend]

not a case of Apple being an evil standout

That's really not the way US Labor Law for hourly-wage employees works... for instance, just today, there was a study published about the frequency with which individuals earning at or near minimum wage are paid less than they are legally owed...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/us/02wage.html?hpw



The study was conducted multi-site by major universities, and while I haven't seen the whole report yet, it looks reasonably credible.

It's common -- it's certainly not a case of Apple being an evil standout, but it doesn't seem like a case where there is absolutely no prima facie claim, either. For salaried workers (like myself), I do generally buy the pinch here, pinch there type of argument, but these individuals earn a lot less money than we do.

Thank you for pointing out that Apple is NOT the only company in the USA that could be breaking labor laws or at least going around them.

The point has been .... Why should companies like Apple get away with this type of treatment of it's employees?

Apple like many companies has had the ability to totally remove this problem from the beginning and yet they did not.

We are NOT talking about salaried employees.. we are talking about hourly wages and overtime earned for regular employees.

 

[killerrobot]

Thank you for pointing out that Apple is NOT the only company in the USA that could be breaking labor laws or at least going around them.

The point has been .... Why should companies like Apple get away with this type of treatment of it's employees?

Apple like many companies has had the ability to totally remove this problem from the beginning and yet they did not.

We are NOT talking about salaried employees.. we are talking about hourly wages and overtime earned for regular employees.

There have been a few lawsuita against Starbucks in CA for similar "off the clock" no pay time for salary and non-salary employees.

http://www.starbucksunion.org/node/971
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/670267/starbucks_loses_105_million_lawsuit.html

I worked for Starbucks for a long time, as well as some other managers and in all honesty there was plenty of **** that we didn't get paid for, but none of us were ever going to join in on the lawsuit because in all honesty, we never really felt shafted. I guess everyone is different though.

 

[mkrishnan]

Thank you for pointing out that Apple is NOT the only company in the USA that could be breaking labor laws or at least going around them.

If you really value your cause, it would seem to serve you well to be able to tell the difference between your supporters and your opponents. Then again, maybe you don't really value your cause?

 

[The Reverend]

The Appellants Opening Brief

The Appellants Opening Brief was filed on August 10 2009 in the Third Appellate District in CA USA.

C060412 ( Sacramento Superior Court No.07AS02124)

The discussion is still : Should companies like Apple,a big powerful USA businesses be allowed to just do as they wish with their employees?

Admitting that there are other companies that could be doing it is a mute point, they are and will continue to until someone says something about them.

We American's tend to stand up and say" Hey, don't tread on me", and what we mean by this is.. Don't walk on me at all.. not even a little or I'll bite you!

Apple is like many large US companies feel that they can walk on the backs of their employees, so a few at the top can get rich and the rest get a sore backsides.

 

[rdowns]

is a mute point

If only.

 

[The Reverend]

Steps

The next step since an Appeal has been filed by Miles Maria's lawyers. Basically why an Appeal should be granted.

Is for Apple to file with the Appeals court in California , USA within 60 days of Miles Maria and his classes date of filing. Basically, why Apple thinks that an Appeal should not be granted. This could have happened already since it's been about 60 days since the first papers were filed by Miles Maria's lawyers.

Then after Miles Maria's lawyers gets their copy from Apple , they file their finial documents with the Appeals court. This is the rebuttal to Apple's reasons why no Appeal should be granted. This also can take 60+ days in some cases. So this could happen around the beginning of next year.

Then a date will be set for the verbal argument to begin in front of the 3 judges. Most likely in early 2010, maybe first quarter of the year.

Now it is possible for either side to back out if they wish, Apple could offer to settle if they don't want the case to go further. Or, Miles Maria's lawyers could tell him that they can't win after seeing Apple's Appeal documents.

I would think that Apple would not want to go further. Due to this could be negative PR ,if Miles Maria could win in Appeals court. And maybe cost them more then they wish.

Most likely Apple will not offer to settle and fight. The case will drag on another year or more. Like most of these cases do.

If I can get a copy of the Appeal's documents from both sides from the courts, I'll share those as well. The Appeals court in Sacramento, CA, USA is where all documents are now accessible.

 

[yg17]

I would think that Apple would not want to go further. Due to this could be negative PR ,if Miles Maria could win in Appeals court. And maybe cost them more then they wish.

If by negative PR, you mean one person posting these complaints on an internet forum filled with Apple fanboys and apologists, I don't think they have a whole lot to worry about.

 

[dejo]

The next step since an Appeal has been filed by Miles Maria's lawyers. Basically why an Appeal should be granted.

If an appeal has been filed, does that mean we already have a ruling on the original case? What was it?

 

[belvdr]

a mute point

How about you getting back to being mute? I think everyone would appreciate it.

 

[The Reverend]

No rulings yet.

If an appeal has been filed, does that mean we already have a ruling on the original case? What was it?

As far as I know. The appeals court has made no rulings.

This most likely will happen beginning of next year. Both side have several documents to deliver to the courts before the year is out.

 

[Apple Genius]

I bet that all the things that are against the law they did here in CA are also against the law in other states as well...

Nope... Just California.

 

[bruinsrme]

Nope... Just California.

California labor laws are very liberal and favors the employees.

Intel used to operate all their US fabs under California laws. When they switch the Massachusetts fab to Mass labor laws I lost $l09 every 2 weeks

 

[The Reverend]

only california?

Nope... Just California.

You think that CA is 1 in 50?

You really think it's the only state with labor laws that cover overtime pay?

WOW.. !!

I guess it could be true the CA takes better care of it's people that live in the state.. I don't know.

It doesn't feel like it when big companies like Apple or Intell can have their employees do things that skirt the law. Using plausible deniability, and as soon as it's noticed. Oh .. They suddenly have a fix for it now, to avoid it in the future.

When all along it was possible that any of the project managers or other specialists employed could have easily projected that employees could have this behavior in a call center. Apples computer operating systems OS8 to X have had the ability do do what they do now, to avoid the issue. Thats many many years of ability... I mean.. really OS 8 had the ability to have a startup script.. yet it took Apple until this issue to have a written policy about how computers startup scripts in relation to employee work start time and login.

Maybe CA is the place where a lot of Law is written.. hummm I don't know.. fate plays it's hand when and where it feels like it.

It is possible that the Call Centers Apple has across the county all made the change at the same time. Or it could be possible that Apple has employees that continue this behavior unaware of what is happening in CA.

PERHAPS, the worlds lawyers watch CA law changes to build their own cases with?

QUESTIONS AND THE MORE QUESTIONS..

TIME HAS THE ANSWER.

 

[dejo]

As far as I know. The appeals court has made no rulings.

I realize that. But I thought that in order for an appeal to be filed, there would have to be a ruling on the original case. What was the outcome?

 

[belvdr]

I can't believe he keeps coming back to post updates on a subject nobody cares about except him.

 

[The Reverend]

ruling on the original case

I realize that. But I thought that in order for an appeal to be filed, there would have to be a ruling on the original case. What was the outcome?

"ruling on the original case:

The class certification was not granted.

The first court ruled that certain parts of a class action were not meet.

example: like the part for how many people are involved

Please read the documents filed with the courts..posted on the first page of this discussion.
---------

closing note

Apple and Miles Maria's lawyers have filed their briefs. The court date for the oral argument should be set in the next 60 days.

 

[mojohanna]

So wait, let me get this straight. Employees are complaining that they must boot their computer and wait for like what, a maximum of a minute, before they log into their computer?

Here is a thought for them, how many of these wheeze bags logged into their computers, clocked in and immediately got up and went to get coffee, go to the bathroom, fix their hair, finish their makeup, or otherwise spent 5-10 min of Apple's paid time not actually working?

The bottom line is you are expected to be at work and ready to work at your start time. If I am understanding this correctly, this is a huge BS play here. Its whats wrong with our legal system, wrong with our court system and one of the reasons why prices are artificially higher in our country than need be and is also a contributing factor to jobs being moved overseas (IMO).

 

[jimmyjoemccrow]

I can't believe he keeps coming back to post updates on a subject nobody cares about except him.

I care. I read this thread months ago and was interested. Then it dropped off the first page and I forgot about it. I am interested in how cases like this progress.

 

[mojohanna]

If only.

LOL

 

[yg17]

Here is a thought for them, how many of these wheeze bags logged into their computers, clocked in and immediately got up and went to get coffee, go to the bathroom, fix their hair, finish their makeup, or otherwise spent 5-10 min of Apple's paid time not actually working?

I asked the OP the same question on multiple occasions and never got a response, so don't hold your breath

The fact of the matter is, unless these employees worked every second, from when they clocked in, until when they clocked out, they may have a case. But no employee, I don't care how good they are, does that.

 

[The Reverend]

Miles Maria's opening brief.

This is the a PDF copy of what is called the Appellants Brief.

It basically says why the first ruling should be overturned. Please read it carefully.

It makes some interesting statements about the courts.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/24192697

Happy Holidays All

 

[Kristenn]

Who is Apple Computers?

This company does not exist! Oh sorry. I just had to post a spam post! But really, it amazes me how many people still call them Apple Computers inc. (Or computer... which ever it was)

I'm pretty sure they changed it to Apple inc. like... 3 years or so ago.

 

[The Reverend]

Documents related to the Court of Appeals

All documents related to the Court of Appeals in Sacramento , CA.

Both side now are waiting for the court to make a ruling or to start the oral arguments. In many cases the court of appeals wants both sides to have their arguments before the 3 judges that will over see this case.


So it could go:
1. The Court rules in favor of the Apple Employees and grants the certification of the Class Action against Apple and the case moves on to next step.

2. The Court rules on Apple side and declines the class certification and end of story.

3. The oral argument begin sometime in exit few months.


An so the discussion was about:

How can big companies like Apple in Ca, USA get away with this typer of behavior? All these big companies have people that could tell them all about how to avoid this type of thing and yet, it still happens.

Could it be that all these companies are aware that it could happen, but choose to look the other way until they are forced to address it. Which saves these companies millions on the bottom line.

Apple, Inc. is the example of a company in question, but surely there have been other large companies that have been brought before the court for this type of issue. I don't happen to have a list. But a list is provided in the Case by the lawyers on the Apple employees side. If you wish to see what other company have already been successfully sued you can find a list in the case.


I think it's time for the CA government to crack down on large companies for this and make an example of them to other states in the union that also have companies doing the same behaviors.

 

[The Reverend]

The Apple lawyers have not made any offers to settle.

The court date is expected soon.

The the oral arguments start.