Well then, you'll need to accept the Lambo up-sell and buy their transmission or you can choose not to buy a Lambo and purchase another car. It's the same with any MacBook product.
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8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests
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Apple’s ARM designs absolutely outclass AMD and Intel on the laptop. On the desktop, the two can only compete by increasing thermal output.
That bubble was likely COVID, not the M1.
Mac sales are better than ever other than the brief COVID aberration.
In theory I agree but x86 has decades of software in the back and far too often I find myself needing to resort to legacy software even as a fairly casual user.
This is also true for most industries, my mom still had to use a DOS program up until fairly recently. Also you can't distribute Windows 11 or Macs to power plants or most engineering companies because many of them won't change their very expensive equipment just for a $2000 mac or lenovo.
In theory ARM is better than x86, in practice Intel and Microsoft's monopolistic business practices are a serious burden. Apple also has themselves to blame by keeping a closed ecosystem.
I’ve been on an M1 Pro Mac. Most software is ARM-native. It isn’t a big deal.
Emulating DOS on a modern Mac is a non-issue. There’s no relevant performance to speak of.
“To blame” for… what?
Blender requires 8gb of ram as the absolute minimum spec. You don't give any numbers so no one knows what you mean by "runs great". Blender isn't even the most demanding application in the world, not even close in fact.
You keep bringing up the screen and OS but they don't matter as much as the quantity of memory. MacOS does not require a 1440p screen but it does require at least 8GB of RAM. Which is again, the bare minimum spec. That says $500-600 to me, at best. You can already pick up cheap laptops with 16GB of RAM.
As mentioned previously, applications are more and more demanding in terms of memory, and the trend skyrocketed recently because of AI and AAA games needing VRAM as a result of prioritizing consoles, which got massive upgrades during COVID.
And the 8gb macbook pro is not ready for either of these developments.
I use Blender for 3D modeling and sculpting. I’ve never had issues with running it… I haven’t tried animation with it, but I don’t really have a use case or need for animation. I use Blender in concert with other 3D modeling and sculpting apps. And it works very well.
They matter to the core experience of the end buyer, and many customers care more about things like display quality and OS than RAM… Not everyone wants or needs gobs of excess RAM, many do want a nicer quality display, longer battery runtime, and macOS… Customers who don’t need or want a bunch of excess RAM they don’t need have a cheaper configuration option that offers those things. You’re not going to find a laptop with the quality of display or battery runtime of the MacBook Pro for $500 to $600, nor should Apple price it so low. PC manufacturers use cheap garbage components to keep pricing down so they sell low, Apple doesn’t sell bargain bin “wonders”… They sell high quality computers with high quality hardware…
I have seen zero substantive increase in RAM requirements for any of the apps I use… And by your argument, there shouldn’t be any configuration options. There should only be a 128GB configuration to choose from so they don’t risk anything “not running”. 😂. Get prepared to shell out several thousand dollars for such a machine… Or maybe customers can decide how much RAM they need rather than you (not even a Mac user or customer) telling them what they need…
No-one should take their ideas about Mac customers needs from someone who is not a Mac customer, and clearly seems antagonistic to Mac users, Macs, and Apple…
So my question again is - is the 8gb MBP (or any Mac with 8gb ram) not ready for apps like Blender, or simply not ready at all?
Look, at the end of the day, we know what your endgame is. You all just want the base Mac to come with 16gb ram, and you all don't want to pay the additional $200 for it. Page after page of digital ink has been spilt to try and vilify the entry level Mac as being crippled and wholly inadequate for modern computing needs, in an attempt to paint Apple as being greedy and miserly. Perhaps in the hope that Apple will somehow be shamed or guilt-tripped into upping the base ram and storage of the next Mac. All to get out of paying that $200.
Maybe they will (and even then, maybe for totally unrelated reasons, such as a corresponding increase in the starting price of said device, so don't be too quick to claim credit there), and maybe they won't (in which case my answer to the detractors here is and always will be the same - get just more ram).
Even if I agree with you (hypothetically) that the 8gb MBP is not ready, what's it to you really? Maybe the solution then is to just remove it from sale altogether. Can't complain about how a product is supposedly gimped if it doesn't exist, even though its presence doesn't really affect the price or performance of Apple's other offerings, and I thought the people here were all about "options" and how "you don't have to buy it if you don't like it"?
May I add, that particular poster isn’t even an Apple customer. He doesn’t own a single Apple device by his own admission. So he seems to just be a Windows fan trying to troll a Mac fan forum… His opinion is completely meaningless and uninformed, because he hasn’t even owned or used the product he’s complaining about…
In specific applications the new ones look faster than the i5…i7 that Apple offered.
But in real practice of daily use, with Safari using several pages, and several applications open, 8 GB is laughable, things that I usually did with a 2015 iMac and 32 GB, now with 8Gb it is impossible.
For 10 years they have continued to offer only 8GB as standard, and now apps need more hardware.
It is even more shameful that they charge you the price per GB almost 3 times the standard market value.
Apple….You can dress it up however you want, but the price/hardware ratio is a rip-off compared to 8 years ago.
And…the thing about cutting the available ports...to buy an external dock...is a matter for court
But in real practice of daily use, with Safari using several pages, and several applications open, 8 GB is laughable, things that I usually did with a 2015 iMac and 32 GB, now with 8Gb it is impossible.
For 10 years they have continued to offer only 8GB as standard, and now apps need more hardware.
It is even more shameful that they charge you the price per GB almost 3 times the standard market value.
Apple….You can dress it up however you want, but the price/hardware ratio is a rip-off compared to 8 years ago.
And…the thing about cutting the available ports...to buy an external dock...is a matter for court
“…things that I usually did with…32GB…now with 8GB it is impossible.” What? 😂. You’re seriously going to pretend this is Apple’s fault and not the fact you specifically chose a configuration with a quarter of the RAM you previously had and thought was required for your use case? 😂. This makes absolutely no sense…
Anecdotally speaking, my base 2020 MBA feels and operates smoother and faster than my 2017 5k iMac with 40gb ram with an SSD installed. I am not sure what's the issue with the latter (is Apple simply not optimising macOS for Intel-based devices anymore?), but it definitely takes longer to boot up, and apps take longer to load.
I am also pretty that no Intel Mac could have 9 hours of zoom on a full charge without needing to be plugged in to an external power source.
I can agree with you that perhaps the M3 MBP doesn't seem to offer as much as value as say, the entry level M1 MBA which I purchased back in 2020, in part because not everybody may care about the better display or the extra ports (plus you are getting a thicker and heavier form factor in the process, and still only support for 1 external display). However, I do feel that I am getting more value out of Apple Silicon than I have from any Intel-based Mac (in particular the long battery life, better performance, excellent display and great trackpad), and I believe the key reason is really the entire package.
Apple is a business that makes money by getting people to buy their hardware, and while they can be stingy in some areas, they are not run by idiots. If Apple devices really represented such poor value, I don't think Apple would be seeing anywhere near the financial success they do today. Rather, a more reasonable explanation is that they are able to use their control over hardware and software to obtain better performance out of the same or even less specs. And the reason why people continue to buy their products is because they do legitimately offer a better user experience, but the customer also has to be smart in opting for the right specs for his / her individual use case. Don't opt for 8gb ram and then complain that it's insufficient for editing a Pixar animated movie. That's not Apple being stingy. That's you being dumb.
And I can safely and confidently say this as someone who also handles a windows laptop at work that has 16gb ram, 512gb storage, i7 processor, a decent selection of ports and a 1080p touchscreen. On paper, it seems to tick the right boxes, and things just feel ever so off. The trackpad is a travesty, wake to sleep is buggy, I have had firmware issues that cause my laptop to not restart properly, battery life is only okay, screen is okay, I can't lift the screen with one hand, everything's just okay. I use it because I have to, not because I want to.
If I could carry two laptops to work, I would.
Which is what I find a lot of people still don't understand about Apple. If you treat Apple as any other company and think that they are going down the wrong path just because their laptops seem to sport less ram or cost more than the competition, without also taking into consideration the areas that Apple does control (such as the ability to optimise macOS to run more efficiently on 8gb ram), then it's really no surprise that they go down the wrong path and make the same mistake the haters have been making for the past few decades.
I truly don't know what more can be said at this juncture except maybe "watch and learn"?
Exactly! I find it extremely odd that some are fixating on one spec configuration and totally ignoring the other things that factor into the package as a whole. A model that offers an expensive display, unrivaled battery runtime, high sound system quality, etc. is also going to be more expensive than a budget computer with a 1080P display, atrocious battery life, plastic build with cheap tiny speakers, etc. Whether that budget laptop has 8GB RAM, or 16GB RAM. It’s called BUDGET for a reason. They cut a ton of corners and use a lot of cheap components and parts that offer an inferior user experience, and the main “pro” is that it’s cheap. That’s not what Apple does. Apple makes high quality, premium products, and so their pricing reflects that. They aren’t in the business of making bargain bin “specials”…. The way Apple makes comparatively lower cost versions of their products is typically by using some less expensive internal components and RAM/Storage configurations. They don’t use plastic chassis, crappy trackpads, 1080p displays, and x86 chips to bring prices down, nor should they.
That's what I don't get about the Mac Mini rumors
Why on Earth are folks applauding a size and port reduction on a desktop computer?
That's exactly what I don't want or need on a desktop computer ... dongles and docks for a desktop?
Loved your reply — especially this 👆🏼. I haven’t used a mouse on a Mac for over a decade as I find the multi-touch trackpad functionality and gestures more convenient, more functional and more ergonomic for my use cases vs using a mouse. When traveling with my (relatively thick and heavy) 16” MacBook Pro the built-in trackpad also means I have one less device to haul around. When I’m at my desk my external monitor + Magic Keyboard and Magic Trackpad create the perfect workstation experience. I know those who choose to use a mouse have good reason for their choice, but the question of “why?“ always pops into my head whenever I encounter someone still using a mouse with their Mac.
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I am in the oposite camp. Nothing against the trackpad, it's a well designed tool, and I use it when I am away from my desk watching tv, etc; but I have a multi button / scroll wheel mouse and use USB OverDrive to program them to move windows between monitors, tile windows, etc. As you point out, it's all about use case.
Nice. I was not familiar with USB Overdrive, but based on your reply I researched it. I’m impressed, it looks like an inspired app. I can see how this level of customization can make your mouse super functional and indispensable.
It is a great tool, and works with more than just a mouse and can have customizations for multiple devices. I've used it with pointers as well. Overall well worth the price, IMHO.
Expensive display? Fine, I can plug in a secondary monitor.
Atrocious battery life? There's a power socket everywhere.
Plastic build? Who cares.
High sound system quality? Sure, but you can plug in better ones.
8GB of RAM? You can't do anything about it... even on some cheap windows laptops and gaming machines, the memory can be upgraded.
Since you have the "user experience" term in your vocabulary, you need to understand it's much more subjective than the cold hard specs of a display or a RAM chip. At the end of the day, in my opinion it's a cost-cutting decision on Apple's part. But consumer technology isn't worth going to protests for.
Yeah, you might not care about it being made of cheap plastic, not having good battery runtime, not having a good quality display and sound system, but many actually do care about those things. And no, there are not “outlets everywhere”. 😂. There’s no outlet on park benches, picnic tables, etc. 😂. Secondary display? A lot of people don’t want to lug around an extra display when the one built-in could be good quality instead. And most people don’t crack open their computer and risk damaging it to upgrade RAM. Not to mention that RAM cards are inefficient, slow and fragile, where Unified Memory is efficient fast, and part of the board so isn’t at as high of risk of failure or lost connection…
Bottom line is, nobody should care what you think about Apple products, because you clearly aren’t an Apple customer, and seem to just want to come to Apple fan forums to trash Apple and Apple products… You’ve also basically in so many ways told us you’re happy with a garbage plastic computer with crappy hardware so long as it has your precious 16GB of RAM… So you’re not even someone who should be considered in the target market for a high quality premium computer like the MacBook Pro…
If the experience doesn’t matter, and the RAM card is the only consideration, you might as well just buy yourself a RAM card. Because, after all, that’s the only important part… 😂🙄
RAM ‘cards’ are now slow, inefficient and fragile? That’s nowhere near accurate, but hey let’s not ruin a good story. This is a hall of fame level defensive effort you’ve put up.
Exactly, unified memory is faster due to how the CPU/GPU can access and store memory; "stick' RAM is at a disadvantage so more RAM is needed to help speed things up.
It’s quite accurate. Compared to LPDDR, SO-DIMM is indeed slower, wastes more energy, and is (slightly) more prone to wear.
And that’s before we get to memory mapping between CPU and GPU.
Wow. 😅 That's a 'novel' interpretation of why Macs 'need less RAM'.