I know that what you're asserting is extremely unlikely. You're either exaggerating, or outright making things up.
Trying to perpetuate an argument on page 111 of a forum thread.
And I have a PowerBook G5 prototype in my attic.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I know that what you're asserting is extremely unlikely. You're either exaggerating, or outright making things up.
Trying to perpetuate an argument on page 111 of a forum thread.
And I have a PowerBook G5 prototype in my attic.
However “extremely unlikely” you think it is, I’ve actually done it, and didn’t run into any obvious slowdown or any beachballs. When I have time, maybe I can grab some screenshots. I’d do a video, but I have no idea how to upload videos on here or if there’s a size limit. I can assure you I am not exaggerating or making anything up, and I don’t think it’s fair to accuse someone of lying just because you doubt what they’re saying could be true with no other evidence but your own doubt to support such an idea. If someone said that they personally couldn’t open more than 3 apps on their computer at once, I’d give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they were running into some kind of bug or something. Just assuming someone’s lying because you doubt what they’re saying is unjust in my opinion, and sets yourself and your own prejudices and biases up as the standard of evidence.
Trying to perpetuate an argument on page 111 of a forum thread? Really? A. If that were my goal, there are many other arguments I could make to do so. Why would I “make something up” (with full expectation btw, that someone here would likely be able to replicate the same setup and pick it apart if it were untrue) when there’s several other arguments I can and have made? B. I’m not the one keeping this debate going. Some people want to keep making false claims about 8GB Macs or accusations against Apple, and I’m merely responding to those. The vast majority of my comments in this thread have been responses to others.
PS, also, as a fledgling writer with a growing SubStack, why would I risk tanking my SubStack’s growth by “making things up”, and “spreading falsehoods”? To supposedly win some silly internet argument? Makes absolutely zero sense…
Last edited:
Yep, this would be insane. Why would anyone buy an even more powerful Mac if this is all possible with a <800 dollar 8GB m1 air? No beach balling or slowdown with such a workflow?
And indeed:
Apple ray tracing and Blender 3.6
Yeah so I went and tested the base M3Pro → CPU 5P + 6L with 14GPU and 18GB RAM. This image is rendered in 30seconds at 2666x2000 resolution on 128 samples (no denoise). It is my project and it can be seen on my travel blog www.europeoncamera.com RT Experimental is ON and IT REALLY WORKS, it...
Note how the 16GB M1 air with 7GPU outperforms the 8GB m1 air with 8GPU by 2-fold!
There are multiple reasons for some to buy higher specs. For one, a dozen files open in design software isn’t actually that much. A lot of designers working on a larger scale will have many more files than that open at once in their design software. I even often exceed a dozen files in my design software, but I am not usually running it along with Safari, Blender, etc. Second, many designers use Photoshop and Lightroom, which aren’t as resource efficient as Affinity, at least as far as I’m aware. I choose to use Affinity because I don’t like Adobe’s subscription, and Affinity runs more efficiently. Many other professional designers would only use Adobe, and so would likely be using more resources.Yep, this would be insane. Why would anyone buy an even more powerful Mac if this is all possible with a <800 dollar 8GB m1 air? No beach balling or slowdown with such a workflow?
And indeed:
Apple ray tracing and Blender 3.6
Yeah so I went and tested the base M3Pro → CPU 5P + 6L with 14GPU and 18GB RAM. This image is rendered in 30seconds at 2666x2000 resolution on 128 samples (no denoise). It is my project and it can be seen on my travel blog www.europeoncamera.com RT Experimental is ON and IT REALLY WORKS, it...blenderartists.org
Note how the 16GB M1 air with 7GPU outperforms the 8GB m1 air with 8GPU by 2-fold!
Also, I had one moderately sized file open in Blender. It’s hardly a complex scene. Most of my modeling and sculpting I don’t use Blender for. I generally use Nomad Sculpt and Valence for my initial work, and I’ve imported models from those softwares into Blender to make some modifications to them that are better done in Blender. I’m still relatively new to 3D modeling and sculpting, and so most of my projects are not big complex maps or scenes, but rather singular objects like starships, characters, etc. If I was a professional 3D artist, I would almost definitely get a higher spec. Especially if I wanted to make any animations, that I would definitely get probably at least a 32GB RAM configuration.
If I were a professional game developer, that would also be another reason to get a higher spec. Game development can be very resource heavy from what I’ve heard. It makes sense since you’re also generally dealing with 3D animation and such for game development.
Also, if you’re really heavy into Virtual Machines and emulation, a higher spec is better. Some people swear by VMs and use them to run heavier softwares. For basic duties, you can probably run a VM on a 8GB Mac ok, but you won’t be allocating as much RAM to the VM as you could with a higher spec. And you likely wouldn’t be running several VMs at once.
There are many good reasons to get higher spec models of Mac. But all of these are heavier workflows that I don’t believe most people would even consider using a base spec for. None of those reasons apply to me, and I have what I’d consider a medium workflow. My freelance graphic design workflow works perfect fine on my 8GB M1 Mac. My 3D projects for 3D printing work perfectly fine on my 8GB M1 Mac. Many Windows games emulate well on my 8GB M1 Mac. Some likely wouldn’t emulate well, but I’m not that heavy of a gamer, and I can always get a console or separate machine to run games if I really wanted to. All of the things that I do run smoothly on my 8GB M1 Mac. So I have no reason to upgrade to more RAM. And I believe most average base spec users aren’t doing freelance graphic design work, or 3D modeling, or even know what game emulation is, so their workflow is likely considerably lighter than mine.
PS, and in the Apple Silicon age, there is less reason for more people to upgrade to higher specs than there were in the Intel era. This is a phenomena I’ve seen firsthand, with several of my friends who had only used 16GB Intel Macs switching to 8GB Apple Silicon Macs and discovering they worked better and faster than their prior Intel Macs with more RAM…
Last edited:
So, I got a bit of time, and I took screenshots to prove what I’m saying. I didn’t have one of my own 3D files on hand, because I usually don’t store them on my native storage, so I used an example file from Valence and imported it into Blender. I counted and I believe I actually had more than a dozen files open in both Affinity Photo and Designer. These are mostly high res rights free images from Unsplash which I often use in my graphic design projects. I also had 19 Safari tabs open, plus the Notes app, App Store, Settings app, and Finder open. And my computer wasn’t smoking. The fans didn’t even kick on. I was able to smoothly switch between them and work in them without beachballing… I scribbled out personal info and such for privacy.
"OS is irrelevant" lol @Kal Madda you cannot be serious. Benchmarks can't only matter when it's convenient.
There is quite a difference in 'real world usage' between those two operating systems as you have used in your argument from the very beginning.
There is quite a difference in 'real world usage' between those two operating systems as you have used in your argument from the very beginning.
These are facts. The OS being irrelevant was the last response I needed to confirm I was exchanging with someone who is divorced from reality. You can't on one hand dismiss benchmarks because they don't fit your narrative, but then point to benchmarks nearly a year later and also claim that an OS is irrelevant when they are both so fundamentally different.
Either way none of this matters. The fact is that Apple felt like it was necessary to bump up the RAM on all models they currently sell to 16GB proves they felt it was inadequate for what they are trying to implement with AI and further macOS updates.
Last edited:
When did I ever claim benchmarks are useless? My argument from the beginning isn’t there’s zero difference between 8GB and 16GB RAM configurations, but that I don’t believe the difference matters for the vast majority of average base-spec users. Benchmarks didn’t prove base spec models weren’t sufficient for an average workflow, they proved they’re not as good for heavier workflows like video editing and such that most probably wouldn’t even consider using a base spec for to begin with…
Furthermore, of course OS matters in that it’s a different experience using the device. My point is that the benchmark test I’m citing isn’t different on iPadOS than on macOS. It’s a cross-platform benchmark test, so the OS doesn’t affect the benchmark test results at all. The entire point of a cross-platform benchmark test is that you can compare results from devices running different OSes. This is how people compare performance benchmarks between Windows CPUs and Mac Apple Silicon CPUs. The test is performed completely within the confines of the benchmark app, the system’s handling of multitasking, etc. doesn’t really have any bearing on the test. This is how people compare the performance of iPhone Apple Silicon chips vs Android chips. The OS doesn’t matter for the results of the benchmark. That is what I am saying…
Last edited:
And more insults and disrespect. How nice… You misunderstood what I was saying. I was not saying the OS doesn’t matter to the end user. I was saying that the benchmark is a cross-platform benchmark test, so the difference of OS is irrelevant to the benchmark test results. The benchmark is expressly designed for comparing devices running different OSes… That’s the entire point of a cross-platform benchmark test. MacRumors articles routinely compare the chip performance of M-chips in iPads with the performance of M-chips in Macs. You can look at the GeekBench test results yourself for iPads and MacBook Airs with the same M-chip and RAM specs. They’re nearly identical with a slight advantage to the MacBook Air in performance due to the better thermal capacity. The MacBook Pro generally has a slight advantage over the MacBook Air due to even better thermal management with fans, and a larger battery capacity. So if anything, M-chips have consistently benchmark tested better in Macs with the same given specs as iPads, not worse…
I am not upgrading any time soon… And you are right, it is unscientific, and nothing you can try to base an argument on, assuming your assertion is even correct in the first place…Run and hide….
But all kidding aside, if you scroll through this forum thread (https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...still-and-hows-it-holding-up-for-you.2446947/) you notice one thing: the people with 16GB ram or more hang on to their m1 (whether air or pro), while the 8GB people indicate they either upgraded already or about to. Just saying…Of course, not a very scientific questionnaire , but still.
I hope this thread never ends.
As for 8GB it is enough for many tasks. Apple only bumped it to 16GB cause of Apple Intelligence but the old base 8GB models were absolutely good enough for a lot of people.
I'm glad the base has 16GB though now obviously. More is better!
As for 8GB it is enough for many tasks. Apple only bumped it to 16GB cause of Apple Intelligence but the old base 8GB models were absolutely good enough for a lot of people.
I'm glad the base has 16GB though now obviously. More is better!
And, btw, I never did get an apology from the people in this thread who accused me of being a liar, even though I provided photographic evidence that I can, in fact, run my graphic design apps with dozens of files open, Blender, Safari with around a dozen browser tabs, and several other apps all at once on my 8GB M1 Mac…
Last edited:
Probably a combination of listening to their customers and changing with the times. My first Mac had 128MB of RAM… my next one had 256MB… then 512MB… then 1GB… then 2GB… then 4GB… you get the picture. Shipping 16GB now is not a tacit admission that 8GB wasn’t enough. Sometimes cars get more powerful engines, sometimes projectors get brighter bulbs, sometimes runners set new world records. It’s progress.
Come on Kal. Just because you have the M1 with 8GB does not mean this was good choice for Apple. 8GB of RAM wasn't good enough then, and it's not good enough now. I don't do heavy graphic design on my machine, but the pretty basic workflow of being a financial office for the company I work for could not be done on 8GB. You can justify your purchase if you like, but it was a bad move on Apple to put 8GB of RAM in the base model of a "Pro" machine.
It was a good choice because 8GB is still more than enough for a base spec device. Did you ever try an 8GB M1 Mac, or are you assuming based off of prior experience with 8GB Intel machines? Because I can tell you that they are quite a bit different in performance. I’ve never argued that 8GB is enough for everyone, but the point of the base spec isn’t to satisfy everyone. It’s a base spec. It’s mostly there for the majority of average users who just use their computer to surf the web, check email, and play Stardew Valley. It isn’t supposed to be the most souped up model in the lineup for pro-video editing workflows, 3D etc. Yet it still is able to run my graphic design softwares, Blender, Safari with over a dozen tabs, and several other apps all at once without noticeable slowdown or beachballs… I’d say that if it can run all of those things, then it should be more than enough for a lot of people, and I would still recommend 8GB base spec Macs for most average users.
I've come to realize an apology never comes when doubters are proven wrong on anything. They just go silent or change subjects
Yep, exactly. At least I was able to provide the evidence for others’ benefit. It really felt hurtful at the time, as some of the people making the accusations I had had friendly discussions with before in other threads. And I told them about my workflow on my 8GB Mac, and instead of asking questions or being open to me being right, they jumped straight to accusing me of making it up. Like why the heck would I make something like that up? Some people should get a higher spec, and that’s why Apple offers those higher spec configurations. But many are perfectly fine with base-spec devices, and can do quite a lot with them.
My mother uses an 8GB M2 MacBook Air and has no problem working remotely on it with Cisco Workspaces and zoom meetings, etc. It can do more than that, but that workload describes A LOT of use cases.
I won't waste my time here because clearly this is just an argument because you bought the base spec Mac. I am using a M3 Max MacBook Pro, and I tried the M3 MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM and it was barely cutting it. 8GB would surely not work.
Well yeah if you're someone that needs an M3 Max, then obviously your workload exceeds the needs of a base model 8GB machine. That's why you couldn't get an M3 Max with 8GB RAM in the first place.
?? Many of us [me for sure] try to often include something like "The Mac OS will make lesser RAM work of course, just work less well," a direct quote from another post of mine. We each evaluate our own workflows and how much RAM we put on board to facilitate the workings of Apple's Unified Memory Architecture. Your 8 GB of RAM is limiting to concurrent operation of the apps you describe, but if that works fine for you that is all that matters.
Last edited:
Oh come on, that’s silly…. You think I feel the need to “defend” my purchase decisions? Of course not. I like what I like, and I have bought the models of devices that work for my needs and preferences. This isn’t about whether my purchase was “justified”, I am happy with my Mac, and plan to continue to use it for many years to come. What it is about for me is pointing out facts, and pushing back against false accusations and illogical arguments against Apple. You have bought the configuration that works best for your needs and preferences. You apparently need the M3 Max configuration for your workflow. Many people don’t need such high specs because they have basic workflows that don’t require as much power…
Not arguing that, Kal asked if I ever tried the M1 Mac with 8GB RAM. Didn't have to. Just because you can run some task with 8GB of RAM, doesn't mean it's a good decision to offer the RAM. It's going to struggle with AI task as they get bigger and bigger.
Yeah, and it’s not like I’m saying that everyone should use an 8GB spec. There are plenty of high-power pro workflows that really should use a lot more RAM and a more powerful CPU configuration. But the whole idea that the 8GB configuration is useless and isn’t enough for anyone is just not true or remotely accurate. 👍🏻