8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests

[Velli]

Wow, not even sure why I am even bothering with you because it's very clear you don't understand. First go and look, I responded to multiple times, this was just the second quote I pulled out because it was so ridiculous.

What you are saying makes no sense especially in relation to my comments here. My argument has been that 8GB of RAM in last several years is not enough RAM for the base model of a Mac. Pricing is what you brought up. I am pointing out that one can't be overpriced without the other being overpriced as well. If you can't understand that, there is no point in continuing.

It’s quite clear that you are going to continue, point or not.

Yes I brought up price, because I was under the assumption that the complaint was that Apple charges too much for too low spec. I now understand that is not your complaint, your complaint is that this computer should not exist at all, at any price. This is a much more obnoxious stance. I will never, ever agree to an argument that because a product is not good enough for EVERYONE, it should not exist. Competition still sells 4GB computers, in systems that are even more RAM hungry. Why? Because there are customers that are willing to buy them. It is evident that many people are perfectly happy with their 8GB Mac, but apparently you don’t accept that. Whether it is about price or not, if you need a 16GB computer, and a 16GB computer exist, you are not hurt by the existence of an 8GB computer. So it is extremely self-centered to argue that a lower spec computer than you need should not exist in the world, and nothing you say is going to make me agree with you.

What I reacted to was someone (you? I’m not going to bother going back and checking) claiming that Apple bumping up the base spec is somehow “proof” that they were wrong to sell 8GB computers. Of course we expect base specs to go up, and/or price of higher spec to go down over time. That’s how computers work, and we all knew this when purchasing our 8GB Macs. I would be critical if a 2025 base spec was not better (or cheaper) than a 2023 base spec, because it should be.

I 100% expect that if Apple had stayed with Intel, the move to 16GB base would have happened sooner.

 

[Velli]

So careful as I didn’t say someone as yourself couldn’t use a Mac with 8GB of RAM. I believe very much that is possible. What I have been saying is that Apple for the last several years shouldn’t have been selling 8GB of RAM as base storage. At this point everything should be 16GB or more. And Apple have now priced the 16GB at the price of the 8GB.

As for you seeing a benefit from 16GB of RAM. Probably not a ton, but you give yourself some headroom so you are constantly getting close to putting too much into that 8GB and maxing it out. I would encourage you to look up MKBHD’s video on I think maybe the M1 or M2 air and talking about the RAM. He can explain it way better than me, and it’s for a more basic use case like yourself.

You say an 8Gb Mac should not have existed in 2023, yet you can’t explain what improvement a casual user will see from going to 16GB, admitting it is “not a ton”? In other words, your argument is totally feelings based, and not rooted in reality. You have just supplied the validation that 8Gb is enough for casual users who don’t care if it takes 0.8 or 0.9 seconds to open a window.

 

[Bento.Box]

You say an 8Gb Mac should not have existed in 2023, yet you can’t explain what improvement a casual user will see from going to 16GB, admitting it is “not a ton”? In other words, your argument is totally feelings based, and not rooted in reality. You have just supplied the validation that 8Gb is enough for casual users who don’t care if it takes 0.8 or 0.9 seconds to open a window.

I really had to check the date to see whether this is an old thread.

I had the 8 vs. 16GB RAM discussion back in 2008.

to be fair, when you order a Raspberry Pi as an embedded system or maybe HTPC, the discussion is still valid.

But for a regular desktop/laptop system? Not really.
Especially because you can get quality laptops for half the price of that MBP with quadruple the memory.
And even the most casualist of users will see the difference once he has a dozen browser tabs open.

 

[Abazigal]

You say an 8Gb Mac should not have existed in 2023, yet you can’t explain what improvement a casual user will see from going to 16GB, admitting it is “not a ton”? In other words, your argument is totally feelings based, and not rooted in reality. You have just supplied the validation that 8Gb is enough for casual users who don’t care if it takes 0.8 or 0.9 seconds to open a window.

This whole uproar has always been rooted in a small pool of users who want 16 gb of ram, but aren’t willing to pay more for it (or buy a more expensive machine).

But rather than admit that this is really just about them, they try to paint it as Apple being miserly and that the majority of the Mac user base is somehow suffering and being fleeced.

It seems par the course for how a lot of criticism is directed towards Apple. Someone has an issue with how Apple does something, but frames the issue as being larger than it really is, or that more people are upset with the matter than there really are, or dressed it as “concern” that Apple is at risk of falling behind if they don’t do X. But the reality is that this is a small, albeit vocal group and not representative of Apple’s user base.

I don’t have a name for this phenomenon, but you get where I am coming from.

 

[kirbysmartsdawg]

You say an 8Gb Mac should not have existed in 2023, yet you can’t explain what improvement a casual user will see from going to 16GB, admitting it is “not a ton”? In other words, your argument is totally feelings based, and not rooted in reality. You have just supplied the validation that 8Gb is enough for casual users who don’t care if it takes 0.8 or 0.9 seconds to open a window.

This isn’t true, but I am not wasting my time. I put a prime example for the user to look at a video of what I am talking about. I simply said that particular user may not notice a huge difference, but a light user is not pushing a computer to its limits often. I imagine though the user has in fact reached the limit.

At the end of the day, I can’t see how it’s a problem to offer more for the same price. It’s clear anyone arguing against 8GB over 16GB are just defending their purchase. In no world is more for less money a bad thing.

Bye now.

 

[Kal Madda]

Interesting take on this. I don't equate RAM with CPU/GPU power. Apps need it no matter capability of the M1 chip. Whether it is a slower system or faster, some apps benefit specifically with more RAM.

As many have stated, certain web pages as example, can gobble of a couple of gigs of RAM easily. When you have a tab open like that, then email and stuff...not enough RAM is left for more intensive apps. I don't make this point as an assumption but from mine and other people's experience. If the goal is make people hungry for a more powerful system down the road, I can accept that as a marketing decision. From a tech PoV...16 gigs is a better fit.

In all of the years that I’ve used Macs, I have literally never seen the entire Safari app use 2GBs of RAM, let alone one tab. I’ve even used web apps like Google Docs and such. I use e-commerce sites like eBay and Amazon. I’m not just going to really light web pages. And with tons of tabs open, I have never seen Safari use that much RAM. I’ve yet to ever see Safari even use 1GB…

8GBs is more than enough for most average users, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. Even Apple Intelligence, the current most demanding OS feature, runs perfectly fine on 8GB Macs. And since Apple’s latest iPhones and iPads designed for Apple Intelligence use 8GB RAM, I don’t see Apple Intelligence suddenly needing more RAM anytime soon.

 

[Bento.Box]

8GBs is more than enough for most average users, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

If that's enough for you, you're welcome to keep the computer you bought in the 2010s. You don't need to buy a brand new computer. You are not the target audience.

 

[PegLegDreg]

The problem is most people are not using Lightroom with 20 tabs. To those that are, it would be fairly obvious they need more than 8gb ram. My stats are as attached. This is pretty standard.

 

[Kal Madda]

It’s simple Kal. You have the Mac Mini M1 with 8GB of RAM and you are going to defend it to the bitter end. I have no more time to waste on this as it’s pointless. Enjoy what you have, but trying to make an argument for it being “enough” in 2025 is just ridiculous. That’s it though, I am done.

And there you go again with that crap. No, I don’t just feel the need to “defend my purchase”… I don’t care a rats rear end what you think about my purchase. You’re a random person on the internet. I don’t feel the need to get approval of my purchases from you…

Whether you like it or not, thousands of users will likely continue to use 8GB Macs they can now get at discounted refurbished rates, and it will be plenty for them…

Arguing against the existence of an 8GB configuration existing in 2025 no matter the price point reeks of elitism. It really does come off as snobbish. If someone can get the 16GB configuration they need for a good price, then it doesn’t hurt them for a cheaper 8GB option to exist for those on a tighter budget who don’t need excessive amounts of RAM they’ll never use. I could understand someone arguing for the 16GB configuration to be sold at the price point of the 8GB, and being okay with the 8GB being sold at an even lower discounted price. But this whole “8GB models shouldn’t exist at all” mentality comes off as extremely snobbish. Competitors still sell laptops with 4GBs of RAM. Clearly 8GB still seems to be plenty for many people, so offering a cheaper option for those people while also providing a higher configuration at a good price for people like you should be perfectly fine. More options doesn’t hurt you. Sadly, rather than just dropping the price of 8GB configurations, Apple removed them altogether after all of the tech media complaining.

Most of these entitled tech media people would never buy a base spec model in the first place, even if it had 16GB. They’re typically buying the high-end configurations to edit 8K video and such. But their use-case is completely out of sync with the needs of the average person. It’s like they live in a different world and assume their 8K video editing workflow is an average workflow for a base spec customer… It just isn’t…

I don’t argue because I own an 8GB Mac. I don’t care if you think my Mac is adequate or not, I think it is, and I will continue to use it for many years to come. What I care about is facts. What I pushback on is this seemingly elitist mentality that low end specs that one doesn’t find sufficient for their own workflow shouldn’t exist at all for others. Should the 16GB configuration not exist because it isn’t sufficient for 32GB users? This can just keep going up the configuration ladder as some elitist person argues the specs below theirs shouldn’t exist… It’s just completely separated from logic, it’s a completely emotional argument, and it makes zero sense to me…

 

[Kal Madda]

If that's enough for you, you're welcome to keep the computer you bought in the 2010s. You don't need to buy a brand new computer. You are not the target audience.

What kind of a crap argument is that? It’s not even a logical argument. More elitism. If someone doesn’t need the same higher specs you do, just tell them to stick with a computer from the 2010s. Got it… 🤦🏼‍♂️🙄

 

[PegLegDreg]

What kind of a crap argument is that? It’s not even a logical argument. More elitism. If someone doesn’t need the same higher specs you do, just tell them to stick with a computer from the 2010s. Got it… 🤦🏼‍♂️🙄

Apple updated the ram cos Apple intelligence was released. If you have that turned off then 8gb is fine for the vast majority of people. Would love to see figures about what number of users actually use Lightroom etc. Tech geeks are not the norm.

 

[Kal Madda]

You say an 8Gb Mac should not have existed in 2023, yet you can’t explain what improvement a casual user will see from going to 16GB, admitting it is “not a ton”? In other words, your argument is totally feelings based, and not rooted in reality. You have just supplied the validation that 8Gb is enough for casual users who don’t care if it takes 0.8 or 0.9 seconds to open a window.

Exactly. And then he accuses us of pushing back just because somehow we supposedly feel the need to defend our purchases to him. It’s silly. As I’ve said before, I can at least understand the “I want 16GB cheaper” argument, even if I disagree with it. The “8GB options shouldn’t exist at all (whether they’re cheaper options for people on a lower budget or not)” argument I just totally don’t understand and will never get behind…

 

[PegLegDreg]

Exactly. And then he accuses us of pushing back just because somehow we supposedly feel the need to defend our purchases to him. It’s silly. As I’ve said before, I can at least understand the “I want 16GB cheaper” argument, even if I disagree with it. The “8GB options shouldn’t exist at all (whether they’re cheaper options for people on a lower budget or not)” argument I just totally don’t understand and will never get behind…

The more ram the better, obviously. But people are deluded about what most people do with their computer. They browse the internet. They do internet banking. They watch videos.

 

[Kal Madda]

Apple updated the ram cos Apple intelligence was released. If you have that turned off then 8gb is fine for the vast majority of people. Would love to see figures about what number of users actually use Lightroom etc. Tech geeks are not the norm.

Actually, Apple Intelligence is currently fully supported on 8GB Apple Silicon Macs. I have it enabled on my Mac, and I have not noticed any difference in performance. Since the latest iPhones built for Apple Intelligence are equipped with 8GB of RAM, I think Apple Intelligence will continue to be supported on 8GB systems for the foreseeable future. But many people don’t care about Apple Intelligence, and have it disabled.

I totally agree. I think a big part of the problem is normalcy bias. Many of these tech reviewers and tech media writers just seem to have this underlying assumption that their use-case is the norm. It just isn’t. Your average person doesn’t care about editing 8K video and whether their export time takes 30 seconds longer or not. They likely will never edit a single 8K video on their computer, because they don’t even have cameras that capture that resolution. Same with Lightroom. Especially now with Lightroom’s subscription model, most people springing for Lightroom are professional photographers, who likely wouldn’t be looking to buy a base spec model in the first place. Most of the things people use to try to argue the 8GB models supposedly “bottlenecked” are use-cases your average user would likely never even try in the first place.

 

[Kal Madda]

The more ram the better, obviously. But people are deluded about what most people do with their computer. They browse the internet. They do internet banking. They watch videos.

Exactly. Laptops anymore are basically a way to access the internet for the average user. They might surf the web, check email, write some notes or word documents, stream movies, and play some light games like Stardew Valley. They’re almost certainly not editing 8K video every day, working in game development, coding, 3D animation, etc.

 

[PegLegDreg]

Actually, Apple Intelligence is currently fully supported on 8GB Apple Silicon Macs. I have it enabled on my Mac, and I have not noticed any difference in performance. Since the latest iPhones built for Apple Intelligence are equipped with 8GB of RAM, I think Apple Intelligence will continue to be supported on 8GB systems for the foreseeable future. But many people don’t care about Apple Intelligence, and have it disabled.

I totally agree. I think a big part of the problem is normalcy bias. Many of these tech reviewers and tech media writers just seem to have this underlying assumption that their use-case is the norm. It just isn’t. Your average person doesn’t care about editing 8K video and whether their export time takes 30 seconds longer or not. They likely will never edit a single 8K video on their computer, because they don’t even have cameras that capture that resolution. Same with Lightroom. Especially now with Lightroom’s subscription model, most people springing for Lightroom are professional photographers, who likely wouldn’t be looking to buy a base spec model in the first place. Most of the things people use to try to argue the 8GB models supposedly “bottlenecked” are use-cases your average user would likely never even try in the first place.

That is the key word, iPhone.

They will never edit an 8k video on their computer because they are not 'content creators'. You are correct, these videos push that everyone is like them when they are not. My 70 year old mom uses her iPad to look up Elden Ring builds while watching Youtube guides. Real advanced stuff.

 

[Kal Madda]

This whole uproar has always been rooted in a small pool of users who want 16 gb of ram, but aren’t willing to pay more for it (or buy a more expensive machine).

But rather than admit that this is really just about them, they try to paint it as Apple being miserly and that the majority of the Mac user base is somehow suffering and being fleeced.

It seems par the course for how a lot of criticism is directed towards Apple. Someone has an issue with how Apple does something, but frames the issue as being larger than it really is, or that more people are upset with the matter than there really are, or dressed it as “concern” that Apple is at risk of falling behind if they don’t do X. But the reality is that this is a small, albeit vocal group and not representative of Apple’s user base.

I don’t have a name for this phenomenon, but you get where I am coming from.

Exactly! I couldn’t have said it any better. Much of the arguments against the existence of an 8GB configuration reek of elitism and snobbishness. What about the people who need 32GB configurations? Should the 16GB options not exist at all because it isn’t sufficient for them?

 

[PegLegDreg]

Exactly! I couldn’t have said it any better. Much of the arguments against the existence of an 8GB configuration reek of elitism and snobbishness. What about the people who need 32GB configurations? Should the 16GB options not exist at all because it isn’t sufficient for them?

The 32 minimum crowd will muster soon. All depends on what Apple do. The problem they made is that m1 was such an improvement they need to coax people off it. It was genuinely game changing for performance .

 

[Kal Madda]

That is the key word, iPhone.

They will never edit an 8k video on their computer because they are not 'content creators'. You are correct, these videos push that everyone is like them when they are not. My 70 year old mom uses her iPad to look up Elden Ring builds while watching Youtube guides. Real advanced stuff.

Exactly. Many content creators tend to have higher end needs, but for some reason, they also often seem to assume that they’re the norm. It’s odd to me. I wouldn’t describe myself as an average user, I do freelance graphic design work, and I also am a content creator myself, I write a SubStack about tech and software, mostly Apple tech, and I am working towards beginning a podcast. I have the link to my SubStack in my bio if you’re interested. I understand that it can be natural to project your own needs and experiences onto others, but for some reason it seems to me as a relative newcomer to the content creator community that this is a more common issue with content creators. Maybe they’re too isolated from the average user around them? Maybe it’s because they tend to hang out in forms like this and think that these forms represent the average person. I don’t know, but it just feels there’s a lot of normalcy bias in the content creator community.

 

[kirbysmartsdawg]

And there you go again with that crap. No, I don’t just feel the need to “defend my purchase”… I don’t care a rats rear end what you think about my purchase. You’re a random person on the internet. I don’t feel the need to get approval of my purchases from you…

Whether you like it or not, thousands of users will likely continue to use 8GB Macs they can now get at discounted refurbished rates, and it will be plenty for them…

Arguing against the existence of an 8GB configuration existing in 2025 no matter the price point reeks of elitism. It really does come off as snobbish. If someone can get the 16GB configuration they need for a good price, then it doesn’t hurt them for a cheaper 8GB option to exist for those on a tighter budget who don’t need excessive amounts of RAM they’ll never use. I could understand someone arguing for the 16GB configuration to be sold at the price point of the 8GB, and being okay with the 8GB being sold at an even lower discounted price. But this whole “8GB models shouldn’t exist at all” mentality comes off as extremely snobbish. Competitors still sell laptops with 4GBs of RAM. Clearly 8GB still seems to be plenty for many people, so offering a cheaper option for those people while also providing a higher configuration at a good price for people like you should be perfectly fine. More options doesn’t hurt you. Sadly, rather than just dropping the price of 8GB configurations, Apple removed them altogether after all of the tech media complaining.

Most of these entitled tech media people would never buy a base spec model in the first place, even if it had 16GB. They’re typically buying the high-end configurations to edit 8K video and such. But their use-case is completely out of sync with the needs of the average person. It’s like they live in a different world and assume their 8K video editing workflow is an average workflow for a base spec customer… It just isn’t…

I don’t argue because I own an 8GB Mac. I don’t care if you think my Mac is adequate or not, I think it is, and I will continue to use it for many years to come. What I care about is facts. What I pushback on is this seemingly elitist mentality that low end specs that one doesn’t find sufficient for their own workflow shouldn’t exist at all for others. Should the 16GB configuration not exist because it isn’t sufficient for 32GB users? This can just keep going up the configuration ladder as some elitist person argues the specs below theirs shouldn’t exist… It’s just completely separated from logic, it’s a completely emotional argument, and it makes zero sense to me…

Your argument makes zero sense. They made the 16GB the base and it’s priced at the same price as the 8GB. So how can anyone be mad or argue against that. More less is always better.

I understand you say you don’t care what people think about your purchase. But it’s clear because you bought the lowest base spec at 8GB of RAM you feel the need to defend that. Other wise you have zero reason to disagree.

 

[Kal Madda]

Your argument makes zero sense. They made the 16GB the base and it’s priced at the same price as the 8GB. So how can anyone be mad or argue against that. More less is always better.

I understand you say you don’t care what people think about your purchase. But it’s clear because you bought the lowest base spec at 8GB of RAM you feel the need to defend that. Other wise you have zero reason to disagree.

I’m not upset that they moved the 8GB price tier to 16GB. I think that’s perfectly fine. I don’t oppose that change. What I am pushing back against is the idea that somehow Apple moving to 16GB “proves” that 8GB models were bad and Apple was just being “miserly” big mean corporation fleecing it’s poor “helpless” customers. I think 8GB was a great value for the price point and was perfectly fine as a base spec configuration. I think the 16GB configuration is also a great value and perfectly fine base spec configuration. Apple bumps up their base-spec configurations every so often. They likely did so with the M4 in part to sweeten the deal and coax some M1 and M2 users to upgrade. But just because Apple bumps a base spec doesn’t mean they did so because the prior options were worthless, bad, etc. Case in point, when Apple upgrades to the M4, it doesn’t “prove” that the M3 was trash and “anti-consumer”. It just proves that Apple wants to improve their products and upgrade the specs. When the iPhone switched to 48 megapixel camera sensors, it doesn’t mean the previous 12 megapixel cameras were worthless. When Apple ups the base storage in iPhones, it doesn’t mean the previous models with less internal storage were somehow insufficient for customers. All a spec bump means is that Apple wants to improve their products and sweeten the deal to get some to upgrade. It doesn’t mean the prior base-spec wasn’t enough for many many people…

I have plenty of reasons to disagree with bad logic and accusations hurled at Apple. It has absolutely nothing to do with the model I own, other than the fact that I know from first hand experience that it isn’t “useless”. I would be making the exact same arguments if I had bought a 16GB model…

 

[kirbysmartsdawg]

I’m not upset that they moved the 8GB price tier to 16GB. I think that’s perfectly fine. I don’t oppose that change. What I am pushing back against is the idea that somehow Apple moving to 16GB “proves” that 8GB models were bad and Apple was just being “miserly” big mean corporation fleecing it’s poor “helpless” customers. I think 8GB was a great value for the price point and was perfectly fine as a base spec configuration. I think the 16GB configuration is also a great value and perfectly fine base spec configuration. Apple bumps up their base-spec configurations every so often. They likely did so with the M4 in part to sweeten the deal and coax some M1 and M2 users to upgrade. But just because Apple bumps a base spec doesn’t mean they did so because the prior options were worthless, bad, etc. Case in point, when Apple upgrades to the M4, it doesn’t “prove” that the M3 was trash and “anti-consumer”. It just proves that Apple wants to improve their products and upgrade the specs. When the iPhone switched to 48 megapixel camera sensors, it doesn’t mean the previous 12 megapixel cameras were worthless. When Apple ups the base storage in iPhones, it doesn’t mean the previous models with less internal storage were somehow insufficient for customers. All a spec bump means is that Apple wants to improve their products and sweeten the deal to get some to upgrade. It doesn’t mean the prior base-spec wasn’t enough for many many people…

I have plenty of reasons to disagree with bad logic and accusations hurled at Apple. It has absolutely nothing to do with the model I own, other than the fact that I know from first hand experience that it isn’t “useless”. I would be making the exact same arguments if I had bought a 16GB model…

That’s just it. My whole premise is that Apple should have updated the base spec back on the M1. When they went to their own chips, they should have updated.

 

[Kal Madda]

That’s just it. My whole premise is that Apple should have updated the base spec back on the M1. When they went to their own chips, they should have updated.

I disagree with that assessment. I think 8GB was a perfectly fine base spec configuration, and a great value on the M1 base specs. When they moved to their own chips, it actually made the experience with 8GB far better. I wouldn’t have used an 8GB Intel Mac, but an 8GB M1 Mac performs for me better than 16GB Intel Macs I’ve tried and owned. Apple Silicon just made such a big difference.

 

[kirbysmartsdawg]

I disagree with that assessment. I think 8GB was a perfectly fine base spec configuration, and a great value on the M1 base specs. When they moved to their own chips, it actually made the experience with 8GB far better. I wouldn’t have used an 8GB Intel Mac, but an 8GB M1 Mac performs for me better than 16GB Intel Macs I’ve tried and owned. Apple Silicon just made such a big difference.

You can’t compare to Intel. Those are so terrible inefficient, they don’t compare at all. The real change was the M chips. RAM management is better, but it does still throttle a lot with several tasks going. You may be able to do what you said as your example, but things have gone into cache and it you really tried to push it with anything you would notice throttle. So while it works for you, that doesn’t mean there is lots of limitations to it.

 

[Velli]

This isn’t true, but I am not wasting my time. I put a prime example for the user to look at a video of what I am talking about. I simply said that particular user may not notice a huge difference, but a light user is not pushing a computer to its limits often.

Exactly the point.

I imagine though the user has in fact reached the limit.

“Imagine”?

Bye now.

Fo realz?