And nobody complains, probably because they don't charge multiple times the going rate for upgrades and start from a lower price!
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8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests
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And therefore it seems that the issue is much more about overall pricing than whether or not 8GB RAM is a reasonable starting point.
Going back to the post I had responded to, I don't think it's unreasonable that Apple still sells laptops with 8GB RAM. As I noted, various computer companies still sell laptops with even less RAM.
My response was to someone else who had posted, "It's 2024 and Apple still sells laptops with only 8 GB RAM." I was simply stating that I don’t think it's unreasonable for Apple to still sells laptops in 2024 with 8GB RAM. As I noted, various computer companies still sell laptops with even less RAM.
As far as premium, pro or whatever, whether or not the total price of a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro is worth the money versus "comparable" competitor machines is up to buyers to decide.
Exactly, good points, and I’d add that this applies also to my perceived shortcomings of more expensive Windows PCs such as expensive Windows PCs that come with 1080p or 2K displays. 👍🏻
There are many “premium pro computers” made by Windows PC manufacturers that have inferior display resolutions or other specs to what’s offered on the MacBook Pro, yet cost nearly as much. Yet they’re good value for certain individuals to which those specs aren’t as important, and they like other specs better. The base-spec MacBook Pros with 8GB of RAM offer other hardware advantages such as the unrivaled battery runtime, the high quality display, the high quality sound system, the high performance CPU, etc. And they sell very well, and customer satisfaction is very high, so apparently lots of people are fine with the 8GB base-spec models.
Any of those which cost over a thousand USD? Apple is a premium product and thus you shouldn't expect weak figures such as 8 GB on an expensive laptop. Especially when the RAM and SSD's are not upgradable. Even if Apple offered more reasonable upgrade costs such as $100 USD to upgrade the RAM to 16 GB, that would be vastly more bearable than what they're presently going for.
It would be akin to buying a Ferrari which is top tier in all respects except for something cheap like the paint job or tires. If you design these in such a way that you would have to pay an extra 50k for a decent paint job or tires which would allow for maximum performance... critics would absolutely notice such glaring price gouging. God knows when you're spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a super car, what's a bad paint job when everything else is god-tier?
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Windows PC manufacturers make expensive computers with lower quality displays. I could make an equally compelling argument as yours that “no base-spec premium Windows computer in 2024 should ship with sub-4K displays”. Or maybe other specs add value for certain customers and workflows. Just like people are willing to buy 8GB base spec Macs for their higher display quality, unrivaled battery runtime, high sound system quality, high CPU performance, macOS, etc. One spec doesn’t dictate the value of an entire system. All of the specs are considered when deciding whether a product is valuable, and to many, an 8GB system that also offers high CPU performance, great display quality, great sound system quality, unrivaled battery runtime, etc. is every bit worth the asking price.
Perhaps not but those companies are selling laptops in 2024 with even less starting RAM than Apple and therefore I don't think Apple still selling laptops with 8GB RAM is unreasonable.
Whether or not the total price of a MacBook Air or MacBook Pro is worth the money versus "comparable" competitor machines is up to buyers to decide. I've put comparable in quotes because people are going to have different wants/needs and views as to what machines are comparable as far as quality, hardware and software (including OS) features, etc.
Exactly, different people have different priorities and preferences in computers (and different budgets I might add). Many people don’t want or need more than 8GB of RAM, but do want/need other things such as a high quality display and unrivaled battery runtime, and find the base spec MacBook Pro to offer those things at a bargain.
And you’re exactly right that the calculus customers make when choosing a product is a fairly subjective thing. Different customers value different things. For some, Windows is a great OS and they prefer it over macOS, to others, Windows is far worse, and macOS is a smoother and better experience. Some people place higher value on having a higher quality display and are willing to pay more for it, while others want a pro machine with a lower quality display and are willing to pay a similar price for other perceived benefits.
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I have no problem with Apple selling 8GB RAM computers. An upgrade price of $200 seems unreasonable. (Or with the current sales on M2 MacBook Air, the upgrade price works out to be $400 above the sale price.)
Of course not and I wouldn't drop that type of coin on such a configuration but as user Kal Madda has stated, there are other options including buying a Windows laptop or a used Mac with better specs or not buying a Mac period.
Neither do I as I paid $499 minus $65 in store credit for my base spec M2 Mini when it was launched. I find the M2 Mini twice as fast as my 2018 i5 Intel Mini. I'm a retired casual user and 8GB is more than enough for my needs and when it comes time to trade it in, I will take a smaller loss towards the next base model Mini.
They aren’t $1800 from Apple’s website. From Apple’s website, the 8GB base spec is $1600, $1800 is for a 16GB configuration.
Oops, sorry, I meant to respond to the guy you responded to. Sorry about that. 👍🏻
It is for a computer with the hardware and unrivaled battery life that it has.
Yeah I'm very much being driven in the direction of not buying Apple anymore, which is not desirable for either buyer nor seller. I'm accustomed to Apple OS and don't want to acclimate unless I have no other choice.
Here's an article written over a decade ago when Apple first designed non upgradable RAM into their MBP and the message foreseen then applies today. https://www.wired.com/2012/06/opinion-apple-retina-displa/
I am willing to upgrade but Apple's practice of designing non upgradability into their entire computer line and bypassing 'right to repair' measures shows the magnitude of their greed. Whenever someone like me wants to put in some extra RAM or storage, I will not pay their outrageous price for upgrades. And never in my life have I seen such devoted followers that would defend such blatant practices over their own interests.
Maybe these new computers really are everything they're made out to be by the casual user. It might just be that they're presenting offering us green eggs and ham, thinking that we need only dive in and buy the new M3 computers... absolutely convinced that we'll change our minds once we've seen their quality. For over 90% of the tasks I do regularly 8 GB is more than enough and I might very well end up happy if I to buy a baseline MBA 15 for as little as $999 with discounts.
However I'm not buying one because of mental concerns. Not being confident 8 GB will be enough five + years down the road. I don't use 256 GB of storage as of now, but I'm very much happier knowing I've got another 256 GB yet to spare than constantly having to be cautious with the sheer volume of files I got on my SSD. The need for 16 GB and 512 GB isn't because we can't do without them, but the excess gives a sense of security and confidence that a computer I buy today could last a decade if I wanted it to.
Buying the base units as they are... I'm more inclined to treat them as cheap and more eager to replace them sooner.
@Agincourt
I've not spent time with an M3, but I have done extensive work with M1 Airs with 8gb vs 16gb
The 8gb would bog down in a way I would notice and get annoyed by when I got really into work with many apps and windows and processes going at once. Not even crazy stuff like video editing or major 3D work -- just many normal apps and windows going at once
Just so frustrating.
At Apple's scale it would cost tiny amounts of money to bump the base to 16GB across the board.
At the least they could not gouge for the upgrade the 16gb -- but alas...
I've not spent time with an M3, but I have done extensive work with M1 Airs with 8gb vs 16gb
The 8gb would bog down in a way I would notice and get annoyed by when I got really into work with many apps and windows and processes going at once. Not even crazy stuff like video editing or major 3D work -- just many normal apps and windows going at once
Just so frustrating.
At Apple's scale it would cost tiny amounts of money to bump the base to 16GB across the board.
At the least they could not gouge for the upgrade the 16gb -- but alas...
I am not defending the price along with the offered specs. I have stated quite clearly, I would not drop that kind of money on a laptop with that configuration. What I have said, is that for the casual user such as myself, a Mac with 8GB of RAM is plenty for my needs. Others need to determine if it does or doesn't because there are other options available. What has been said repeatedly is that the vast majority of users Windows/Mac will get along fine with 8GB of RAM.
The best way to send a message to Apple is to vote with your Dollars/Pounds/Euro/Yens etc. Buying a laptop, then accepting the up-sell followed by complaining on a public forum about the price serves little purpose. It's only when the purchases slowdown do companies take notice. We recently saw that with Bud Light.
I have on occasion eat fast foods and I refuse to pay $8-9 for a McDonald's burger or $3-4 for a Taco Bell item which 4-5 years ago was 99c-$1.50, so I now bag a lunch to work or eat at home. That's how companies get the message, don't buy and wait for them to react to lower sales.
It’s not gouging. It’s actually cheaper than what Microsoft charges for the same upgrades on many of their computers.
Just because someone is also doing it doesn't mean it's not gouging
Sounds like those two are both guilty
Shame on both of them