8GB RAM is a disappointment?

[leman]

Problem is Apple didn't offer a non-BTO model with 16GB RAM. In some markets, we only get whatever baseline Apple offers, no BTO options, in this case all of them only comes with 8GB RAM.

I believe they did what made most sense for most users. There is only that much RAM you can cram onto a package, and offering different package sizes wouldn't make sense economically (since you will also most likely need a redesign logic board). Focusing on the intended market segment (entry-level) and limiting the RAM to what is appropriate for that market segment is a reasonable choice when you consider the alternatives (which would basically mean significantly increased cost).

It is a shame that users who need more RAM are not served by the M1, but their Apple Silicon Macs will come later on. They will use die stacking or some other technology to offer more RAM with higher bandwidth.

 

[EntropyQ3]

I believe they did what made most sense for most users. There is only that much RAM you can cram onto a package, and offering different package sizes wouldn't make sense economically (since you will also most likely need a redesign logic board). Focusing on the intended market segment (entry-level) and limiting the RAM to what is appropriate for that market segment is a reasonable choice when you consider the alternatives (which would basically mean significantly increased cost).

It is a shame that users who need more RAM are not served by the M1, but their Apple Silicon Macs will come later on. They will use die stacking or some other technology to offer more RAM with higher bandwidth.

Yup, and the specifics of how Apple solves this is of significant tech-geek interest!
The sticking point is scaling the unified memory model to higher capacities and speeds. I can't really see industry standard (DDR5) DIMMs fitting into that future, but there are options and corresponding trade offs that will have repercussions through the overall designs.

 

[bklement]

I understand the sentiment, but nobody — literally nobody — offers more than 8GB in the baseline configuration of comparable machines. You can look around, Dell, Lenovo, it's all 8GB. Isn't it a bit unrealistic to expect Apple to ship double the amount of any other vendor — at a lower price point?

Those notebooks come with a bare minimum integrated intel gpu, and they stated numerous times that in Apple Silicon the gpu will be soo much better. If you'll really use it's capabilities, it will use up a sizeable chunk of that 8 gigs memory.

 

[ian87w]

I believe they did what made most sense for most users. There is only that much RAM you can cram onto a package, and offering different package sizes wouldn't make sense economically (since you will also most likely need a redesign logic board). Focusing on the intended market segment (entry-level) and limiting the RAM to what is appropriate for that market segment is a reasonable choice when you consider the alternatives (which would basically mean significantly increased cost).

It is a shame that users who need more RAM are not served by the M1, but their Apple Silicon Macs will come later on. They will use die stacking or some other technology to offer more RAM with higher bandwidth.

Users who need 16GB of RAM in the US can BTO an M1 Mac with 16GB RAM.

The least Apple could’ve done is offer a non-BTO higher tier with 16GB RAM as the default.

 

[deeddawg]

Problem is Apple didn't offer a non-BTO model with 16GB RAM. In some markets, we only get whatever baseline Apple offers, no BTO options, in this case all of them only comes with 8GB RAM. And since the RAM is non user upgradeable, we are SOL if we want a unit with 16GB RAM.

Sure they do. The four port MBP's have base models with 16GB RAM and remain available.

While those models haven't yet transitioned to AS, there's no reason to think they won't do so in time.

So no, you're not SOL as you say. You're in the same position you were - the two-port MBP models ship with base RAM of 8GB.

The least Apple could’ve done is offer a non-BTO higher tier with 16GB RAM as the default.

As above - they still have that tier. It hasn't transitioned from Intel to Apple Silicon yet though. Presumably in 2021 sometime.

 

[makzr]

This is my Macbook Pro from a cold boot using Safari, playing one 1080p/60 video on YouTube. No other programs are running. This with an adblock: I don’t browse without them. As you can clearly see, usage is approaching 5GB and its already drawing into the swap.

No. Your mac allocated 5GB, it‘s not using it. That‘s a big difference. Read this: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/378981/high-memory-usage-on-macos-catalina

The pure existence of a swap file is not bad (especially because it‘s only 35mb). As long as it doesn‘t start growing out of control...

macOS sometimes moves memory that wasn‘t addressed for a while into the swap file. That‘s part of the memory management.

As long as you don‘t have 8 of 8 in use AND a swap file with several hundred mb you don‘t have a problem.

 

[Henk van Ess]

No. Your mac allocated 5GB, it‘s not using it. That‘s a big difference. Read this: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/378981/high-memory-usage-on-macos-catalina

Nice spot

 

[4sallypat]

The irony is that most games have diminishing return once you have more than 8GB of RAM. So games is not RAM limited, but more GPU limited.

The think is, Apple was advertising in their own keynote how you can do Photoshop and video editing in the MacBook Air. Most of us know that these activities do take up a lot of RAM.

Ignoring that, even a lay person can gobble up RAM really quickly. I have seen accountants and consultants requiring 16GB RAM at least since their workflow involves a ton of Chrome tabs and excel sheets open, plus citrix VMs at the same time. These people don't need the fastest processor, but they do need the RAM.

To contrast my M1 Mini that I ordered for home use:

Major irony using Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2020 on my 8th gen i7 PC did not have enough RAM (8GB) as soon as the program loaded (I got the full download deluxe version).

Then I upgrade the RAM to 64GB ($250) and voila the program loads and installs.

Then to add injury to insult, the on board Intel 630UHD video card says it will not run the basic simulator training without it freezing.

So next I upgrade the PC with a $300 8GB NVIDIA GT1660 video card and now the program runs smooth.

Finally, I notice the graphics looked choppy and colors were off so then my 5 year old 22" Dell monitor was the culprit.

Ordered a Dell Alienware 1ms IPS 27" display for $450 and finally the game runs perfectly.

This on top of the flight yoke, quadrant controls, sidestick thrust controls, and flight rudders w/ braking ($600).

So for gaming, I really wish that the $1600+ that I just spent for ONE GAME would be it, but no - PC world has us trained that we always need more and more.

I am hoping Apple does not put us in a vicious cycle of spending more money like the PC world...

 

[0906742]

I'm fine with 8GB memory with my MBP 2019 but I'm afraid you cannot compare directly to ARM based CPU. From what I understood ARM basically needs much more memory than x32/x64, so that 8GB with ARM equals roughly the same as 4GB with Intel, since CPU architecture difference. Not sure if is somehow different with M1 but I don't see why it would?

 

[4sallypat]

..... the CPU plays an important role in memory management, but the operating system’s design is even more prevalent to the end-user. You can have an ARM architecture running iOS or macOS, where the memory utilization and technology behind it works completely different, based on use-case (e.g prioritize battery efficiency on mobile vs performance on desktop).
......
My guess - and tests will tell - is that the SoC is very efficient at swapping memory with virtual memory (SSD) to start with, amongst other architectural changes that make a straight comparison with Intel difficult. 16gb may simply not matter as much on the low to mid-end.

Secondly, they probably optimized the M1 version of macOS to play to the M1’s strengths such as making more use of the neural chipset and GPU on an operating system level, and in addition they may have made macOS less resource hungry through optimization of services and processes we all use today but that’ll be limited on a desktop where you can’t control a wide variety of use-cases as much, as opposed to iOS or iPadOS.

Yes, this is what I believe is true - Big Sur OSX was released to merge the iOS and Mac OS thru the new OS. I just love the iPad & iPhone processors that have been so efficient with minimal RAM coupled with low power consumption and efficiency due to low voltage design.

If you look back at the PPC days, the RISC design, and pre Mac OSX operating systems ran so much more efficient and cooler that RAM was not an issue.

It was when Apple switched to Intel processors that involves more instruction cycles, higher voltages and latency times coupled with bloated OS coding that made the system hotter and hotter...

Now Apple Silicon is an obvious return to the old RISC days when you can actually use the Mac operating system and unified architecture to gain the same advantages of the iPad/iPhone....

 

[rambo47]

Users who need 16GB of RAM in the US can BTO an M1 Mac with 16GB RAM.

The least Apple could’ve done is offer a non-BTO higher tier with 16GB RAM as the default.

To get 16GB of RAM all you have to do when ordering is click the little box that says 16GB for $200. That makes it BTO? Is that such a big deal?

 

[Lucifer666]

Yes it’s confusing. I just don’t listen. Never needed 16gb, so why bother. I get that people want it, but the utter lament over the 16gb limit is what is distracting.

 

[0906742]

Yes it’s confusing. I just don’t listen. Never needed 16gb, so why bother. I get that people want it, but the utter lament over the 16gb limit is what is distracting.

You have to take account CPU architecture difference between Intel x86/x64 (CISC) and ARM/M1 (RISC), so the RAM requirement is a lot different in RISC (it needs more).

 

[Lucifer666]

You have to take account CPU architecture difference between Intel x86/x64 (CISC) and ARM/M1 (RISC), so the RAM requirement is a lot different in RISC (it needs more).

There you go!

 

[0906742]

There you go!

So true. That’s why my iPad has 32gb

Which iPad had 32GB RAM?

Anyway, I'm afraid 16GB M1 is need to match the 8GB with Intel, unless something has changed dramatically. Just check the difference between CISC and RISC where different RAM usage is mentioned often.

 

[Lucifer666]

Which iPad had 32GB RAM?

Anyway, I'm afraid 16GB M1 is need to match the 8GB with Intel, unless something has changed dramatically. Just check the difference between CISC and RISC where different RAM usage is mentioned often.

im an average user. Apple isn’t cheating anyone With the base.

i buy 8gb, then there are all these threads, which makes average Joe wonder wtf? You read these post and think “Do I need 16gb...32gb?” I’m sooo confused

im sure I’m not alone here

 

[ian87w]

To get 16GB of RAM all you have to do when ordering is click the little box that says 16GB for $200. That makes it BTO? Is that such a big deal?

Like I said, in some countries, we don't have BTO options, we only have resellers or distributors selling whatever Apple offers as base config. So yes, that's a big deal.

 

[seek3r]

I hear many people complain 8GB is not enough, in What world is 8GB RAM is not enough?!

There are like full 3D HD games that are not 8GB in size. Am I missing something?

If you do photoshop with 1000 layers or build 3D worlds for MMORPGs in MAYA this entry laptop is not for you but I can't imagine 8GB not enough, the iphone and ipads are running on 4 and 6 and people are very happy with them. I remember a time when 1GB RAM was a machine for "creative" work.


And $1300 laptop is not expensive, this is cheap! Laptops used to cost north of $1500 easy of weak specs! Steve Jobs introduced the ibook in '99 for $2500+(FFI) to make it "within reach of education customers and consumer customers" ! (btw it had 0.032GB RAM and 6hr battery) I feel old...

Try running a couple VMs, or a local k8s cluster with an application stack for dev work, or just a ton of browser tabs. I regularly hit 8GB of browser RAM usage on my work laptop between chrome and firefox, and I have to carefuly manage VM RAM usage right now, which is why my next work machine will have 32GB of RAM and my next personal laptop certainly isnt going below the 16GB in my 2020 MBA

 

[ian87w]

im an average user. Apple isn’t cheating anyone.

i buy 8gb, then there are all these threads, which makes average Joe wonder wtf? You read these post and think “Do I need 16gb...32gb ...100gb?” Cuz these pros are saying I do. I’m sooo confused

im sure I’m not alone here

In reality, lay user don't even understand RAM. They either just get whatever is offered on sale, or what their geek friend told them to get. Usually the complaints come when their computer slows down when they have Chrome with 30 tabs open, 10 excel sheets open, line/wechat/Skype client open, and they're doing zoom call at the same time.

I used to think normal users don't need a lot of RAM, then I see the typical use today. Tabbed browsing makes people think they can keep opening sites without any limitatiins as there's only "one" window open. And with most websites nowadays load a boatload of trackers and widget, they're RAM hog.

 

[seek3r]

8GB of RAM on the M1 is going to perform like an Intel with 12+GB due to the unified memory architecture.

The spec snobs days of being able to get a 1:1 comparison are over, meaning we’re only a decade away from regular people understanding this.

UMA just means the various parts of the SoC have direct access to the RAM, it doesnt mean it has more RAM..... It's more about speed than capacity, at least when it comes to typically work (it may reduce what would have been allocated to a GPU, but that's at best giving you back 1.5GB on an Apple machine with an iGPU right now, tops, maybe a touch more on machines with dGPUs [none of which are being replaced by the M1 offerings, and would only apply if Apple were supplying dGPUs configured so that the CPUs had direct access to the GPU memory] and really nowhere near that in reality, since the GPU still has to use RAM, there's just a little less RAM duplication)

 

[Lucifer666]

In reality, lay user don't even understand RAM. They either just get whatever is offered on sale, or what their geek friend told them to get. Usually the complaints come when their computer slows down when they have Chrome with 30 tabs open, 10 excel sheets open, line/wechat/Skype client open, and they're doing zoom call at the same time.

I used to think normal users don't need a lot of RAM, then I see the typical use today. Tabbed browsing makes people think they can keep opening sites without any limitatiins as there's only "one" window open. And with most websites nowadays load a boatload of trackers and widget, they're RAM hog.

Right, I hate tabs anyway. Makes me nervous ? and I never use them.

as far as VMs . Good luck with that ?

But the bottom line is, I’m not paying $200 for 8gb. I’d rather reboot every five minutes.

note: wtf does my iPad have capital problems? ? is there a setting somewhere for that?

 

[seek3r]

Right, I hate tabs anyway. Makes me nervous ? and I never use them.

as far as VMs . Good luck with that ?

I legit can't imagine browsing the web today without tabs

 

[Lucifer666]

I legit can't imagine browsing the web today without tabs

sure, 10 tops. I don’t need 30 open tabs.

 

[wyatterp]

Bottom line - we all can wait for real world reviews. But with an 8-wide L1 cache decoder, a lot of L2 cache, dedicated paging buffer for the GPU cores, and likely a much higher bandwidth (not sure how many gbit/sec) memory interface, along with PCIe-4 SSD - means that this will depart a bit from x86 world, with Intel still operating on narrowed micro-architecture and needing to go outside of the SoC to access RAM - I'm still predicting much better performance considering 8GB RAM than limits you may find in the Intel/AMD x86 world right now. Owning several 8GB ram intel machines, and not being a video editor, I see no real issues at hand.

However, I do notice hard limits with texture swap for games, and a limit on the resolution before performance has a ceiling, but all limits a dev can work around to optimize performance and we all know Mac's ain't really gaming focused! However, for games pushing the limits on passively cooled phones/ipads, the M1 will absolutely crush them.

So for the vast majority of PC/MAC users, 8GB is plenty sufficient - and anyone coming in here to show us how they know because "their ram is full" can be ignored. RAM is supposed to be full, if you aren't filling it up, you bought too much for your specific application. Page files exist even if you have 32GB of ram, I know because I can see that on my 32GB desktop. We are quickly converging likely to a future where SSDs may obviate the need for dedicated RAM if they can get speed and latency, and random access speed on par with RAM - but that dream may never fully come as I'm sure RAM will get faster and faster.

 

[wyatterp]

sure, 10 tops. I don’t need 30 open tabs.

I think you have two types of people, those who NEVER close an app, and never close a tab (these most likely have their entire desktop covered in links to apps and never take time to organize) - and those who keep a cleaner desktop, and close apps when they are done with them. But again, our faster SSDs are making page files good enough to overcome RAM limits.