8GB vs 16GB RAM?

[bjet767]

The "how much ram is enough" thread has been bantered about in the past.

Basically buy as much as one can afford and stop worrying about the future.

Only two reasons to have more than 8 gigs with OSX:

1. The operating system moves from 64 bit to 128 bit and that is very unlikely

2. The program loads all the data from a file into the free memory stack. This is highly unlikely.

Yes if one is using multiple VMs or more than one user logged in at a time more is better.

Again, just buy what your pocket allows.

 

[Retromac2008]

don t buy things for the future, if u don t need it now don t buy extra ram

 

[BurntPotato]

Sorry for the late response, for some reason MacRumors did not notify me of replies. To clarify I am doing only boot camp, which I believe is the one that only boots one OS at a time right? But I expect my usages to be around the same for at least 3 years because I will still be a university student until then. When I use my laptop I generally close any other applications that I do not use and most of the times it will be just a few tabs open on Safari along with Pages etc. I have used a Mid-2012 non-retina MacBook Pro with 8GB in the past for the same usages and it ran fine until 2016 when I dropped it and the display housing bent and popped out. For now, I am using an Early-2014 MacBook Air with 128 GB and 4 GB RAM. It has been running great for me so far and I'm really enjoying it. I asked whether to upgrade to 16 GB or not originally because I was advised to for future standards but was not sure. But everyone does have a point and I think that I would agree that by the time I need more RAM I would need a new machine anyway because I don't plan on keeping the machine for more than 5 years. However, if it still runs fine and I do not have more heavy hardware needs in 5 years I will probably keep it. Although I do have a new decision I am struggling with. Can anyone give me any advice choosing between the TB and nTB model? I have heard that the touch bar can become annoying for some users or simply useless. Should I spend $300 for 2 more ports and a slightly better processor? Thank you all again!

 

[FineFuturity]

Sorry for the late response, for some reason MacRumors did not notify me of replies. To clarify I am doing only boot camp, which I believe is the one that only boots one OS at a time right? But I expect my usages to be around the same for at least 3 years because I will still be a university student until then. My major is in managerial economics with a minor in either applied computing or computer science (although not likely with computer science since I tried an introductory programming class with Python and did not do as well as I had hoped). When I use my laptop I generally close any other applications that I do not use and most of the times it will be just a few tabs open on Safari along with Pages etc. I have used a Mid-2012 non-retina MacBook Pro with 8GB in the past for the same usages and it ran fine until 2016 when I dropped it and the display housing bent and popped out. For now, I am using an Early-2014 MacBook Air with 128 GB and 4 GB RAM. It has been running great for me so far and I'm really enjoying it. I asked whether to upgrade to 16 GB or not originally because I was advised to for future standards but was not sure. But everyone does have a point and I think that I would agree that by the time I need more RAM I would need a new machine anyway because I don't plan on keeping the machine for more than 5 years. However, if it still runs fine and I do not have more heavy hardware needs in 5 years I will probably keep it. Although I do have a new decision I am struggling with. Can anyone give me any advice choosing between the TB and nTB model? I have heard that the touch bar can become annoying for some users or simply useless. Should I spend $300 for 2 more ports and a slightly better processor? Thank you all again!

• If you absolutely hate the Touch Bar, or don't see yourself using it all that much, get the nTB model. Based on what you've said, I think the base model w/ 8GB RAM + 2.3 GHz i5 will be fine for you. You'd just have to figure out how much storage you think you'd need. I'd say get 256GB minimum, since (imo) 128GB is just not enough, but you know yourself better than I do.
• If you want anything more powerful than what's listed in point #1, the options for the nTB are fairly limited: the most powerful nTB configuration comes w/ a 2.5 GHz i7, compared to the base TB model which has a 3.1 GHz i5. What's more: the nTB model -- in all configurations -- comes with only 2 USB-C ports, compared to the 4 on the TB models. Basically, if you want more power and more ports, the nTB model is out the window.

It all comes down to whether you value power over functionality, and vice versa. And with the Touch Bar being the controversial feature it is, coming to a decision isn't any easier, either. Hopefully the points above help.

 

[asoksevil]

Seriously all these future proofing is total ********. If your needs won't dramatically change over the next 5 years, 8 GB for mundane tasks will be more than needed. I would rather keep my $200 dollars than spending it on something I will never use just to ease my mind about about future proofed.

 

[BurntPotato]

• If you absolutely hate the Touch Bar, or don't see yourself using it all that much, get the nTB model. Based on what you've said, I think the base model w/ 8GB RAM + 2.3 GHz i5 will be fine for you. You'd just have to figure out how much storage you think you'd need. I'd say get 256GB minimum, since (imo) 128GB is just not enough, but you know yourself better than I do.
• If you want anything more powerful than what's listed in point #1, the options for the nTB are fairly limited: the most powerful nTB configuration comes w/ a 2.5 GHz i7, compared to the base TB model which has a 3.1 GHz i5. What's more: the nTB model -- in all configurations -- comes with only 2 USB-C ports, compared to the 4 on the TB models. Basically, if you want more power and more ports, the nTB model is out the window.

It all comes down to whether you value power over functionality, and vice versa. And with the Touch Bar being the controversial feature it is, coming to a decision isn't any easier, either. Hopefully the points above help.

I have heard that the nTB also has better battery life because the processor is less demanding and does not have to power the touch bar. Is that true?

 

[FineFuturity]

I have heard that the nTB also has better battery life because the processor is less demanding and does not have to power the touch bar. Is that true?

You'd have to ask someone who has used both extensively to answer this question.

What I can tell you is that -- as an owner of a nTB MBP with a 2.3 GHz i5 -- I am able to get 10, 12, sometimes even 13 hours of use from a single charge. And that's all with 10-20 tabs open in Safari, my IDE, Skype, Discord, Mail, Notes, and various other apps open. Hell, I've been able to work in Pixelmator for an hour or two per session and still have energy left to do whatever else. Take that as you will.

 

[BurntPotato]

You'd have to ask someone who has used both extensively to answer this question.

What I can tell you is that -- as an owner of an nTB MBP with a 2.3 GHz i5 -- I am able to get 10, 12, sometimes even 13 hours of use from a single charge. And that's all with 10-20 tabs open in Safari, my IDE, Skype, Discord, Mail, Notes, and various other apps open. Hell, I've been able to work in Pixelmator for an hour or two per session and still have energy left to do whatever else. Take that as you will.

Wow, that's really good! I guess I will go ahead and pick up the nTB 256 GB in a few days now that the back to school deals are here. Thanks!

 

[dogslobber]

The trend in software right now (at least on the Apple side) is reducing RAM requirements, not increasing.

LOL

Have you compared running Snow Leopard to Sierra on the same hardware?

 

[leman]

Have you compared running Snow Leopard to Sierra on the same hardware?

Snow Leopard doesn't run on modern hardware, so why would I? Whats relevant here is comparing modern iterations of macOS, like Sierra and High Sierra.

 

[Retromac2008]

Sorry for the late response, for some reason MacRumors did not notify me of replies. To clarify I am doing only boot camp, which I believe is the one that only boots one OS at a time right? But I expect my usages to be around the same for at least 3 years because I will still be a university student until then. When I use my laptop I generally close any other applications that I do not use and most of the times it will be just a few tabs open on Safari along with Pages etc. I have used a Mid-2012 non-retina MacBook Pro with 8GB in the past for the same usages and it ran fine until 2016 when I dropped it and the display housing bent and popped out. For now, I am using an Early-2014 MacBook Air with 128 GB and 4 GB RAM. It has been running great for me so far and I'm really enjoying it. I asked whether to upgrade to 16 GB or not originally because I was advised to for future standards but was not sure. But everyone does have a point and I think that I would agree that by the time I need more RAM I would need a new machine anyway because I don't plan on keeping the machine for more than 5 years. However, if it still runs fine and I do not have more heavy hardware needs in 5 years I will probably keep it. Although I do have a new decision I am struggling with. Can anyone give me any advice choosing between the TB and nTB model? I have heard that the touch bar can become annoying for some users or simply useless. Should I spend $300 for 2 more ports and a slightly better processor? Thank you all again!

if you take the nTB version, you re going to have a "economic" version paid over 1500$. this is sad but true in my opinion.


a 800$ 2015 Macbook pro is a expensive model, but looking at your 1500$ nTB 2017 model, you re going to think: i went on the cheap.
a good marketing choice by apple, a sad reason to pay 2000$ for the base model for us

 

[dogslobber]

Snow Leopard doesn't run on modern hardware, so why would I?

As that's a counter example to your statement promoting Apple's alleged attempt to reduce memory footprint. Your claim is bogus without evidence.

 

[leman]

As that's a counter example to your statement promoting Apple's alleged attempt to reduce memory footprint. Your claim is bogus without evidence.

I never claimed that a modern macOS would need less resources than a 7 years old OS

What I said is that recent focus of Apple is to make their software more efficient — by a) moving to programming paradigm that needs less runtime RAM (Swift) b) developing optimised libraries that accelerate common tasks and c) adopting new core, more efficient techs in their OS. It won't make new OS use less resources than Snow Leopard (the new OS is doing much more stuff after all), but it will minimise the unnecessary bloat and slow down the increase of resource demands.

As to evidence, well, one needs to compare the resource usage of stock apps between 10.13 and 10.10+. I don't think that anyone has done it yet in any depth. I am basing my statement primarily on the contents of this year's WWDC, where these issues were discussed a number of times.

 

[throAU]

8GB to 16GB = $180 (plus tax) on a $1500 machine.. That's not a tiny fraction that's about 13% of the entire cost of the computer just for RAM that the OP will probably never need.

No doubt if $$$ are not a consideration then spend away.. Heck the same can be argued about SSD, processor ect... I don't see spending an additional $13% for piece of mind that may never come as being financially responsible..

When do you anticipate that 8GB of RAM will be obsolete????

13% extra for a machine that can handle data/code for applications of > 2x the size (as macOS will consume 1-2 GB for itself before you start), thus extending the useful life of the machine (these can't be upgraded!)

13% extra for a machine that will have a few gigabytes available for caching your SSD (yes, SSDs are fast, but RAM is faster).

13% extra for a machine that will not burn CPU cycles compressing memory for when it needs to swap.

180 dollars over the life of the machine is what... 60 dollars a year if you replace every 3 years?

it IS a tiny fraction of the price, when you consider it will significantly extend the life of the machine, and for the entire life of the machine speed up performance if you are doing anything in any way strenuous.


8 GB of RAM is baseline / borderline obsolete in 2017.

Sure, it is OK to run limited, light duty applications today. But you don't buy a brand new machine for today. You buy one for 3-5 years.

And yes, i am aware the OP is a student. Much better to buy a machine that will last and work well for 3 years, than have to buy a second machine halfway through your degree. Saving $180 on purchase price today will bite you 2-3 years down the line.

I'm not sure why people think "student" = "needs base model machine". Depending on what you're dong at university, you may be dealing with massive data sets, software you may need/want to run in a virtual machine, etc.

As to why not recommend top level everything?

Top level CPU will not be the difference between running something or not
Storage can be added, or data can be moved to the network.

RAM can not be added externally, and you can not substitute for it with externally connected devices.

 

[raqball]

8 GB of RAM is baseline / borderline obsolete in 2017.

I can only hope you are joking with this comment...

There are plenty of professionals buying new machines in 2017 with 8GB of RAM..

The horse has been beaten to death.. We will just have to agree to disagree but I still firmly believe that telling a college student with light usage that he/she needs 16GB of RAM in what is a disposable machine is very, very, very odd...

Sorry for the late response, for some reason MacRumors did not notify me of replies. To clarify I am doing only boot camp, which I believe is the one that only boots one OS at a time right? But I expect my usages to be around the same for at least 3 years because I will still be a university student until then. When I use my laptop I generally close any other applications that I do not use and most of the times it will be just a few tabs open on Safari along with Pages etc.

I asked whether to upgrade to 16 GB or not originally because I was advised to for future standards but was not sure. But everyone does have a point and I think that I would agree that by the time I need more RAM I would need a new machine anyway because I don't plan on keeping the machine for more than 5 years. However, if it still runs fine and I do not have more heavy hardware needs in 5 years I will probably keep it. Although I do have a new decision I am struggling with.

Can anyone give me any advice choosing between the TB and nTB model? I have heard that the touch bar can become annoying for some users or simply useless. Should I spend $300 for 2 more ports and a slightly better processor? Thank you all again!

Sound rational. Some (me included) view the touchbar as a gimmick that's been done before and failed miserably.. If you'll like it or not will be personal preference. I'd say try going to an Apple store or a Best Buy and play with both models.. The nTB will get better battery life, no doubt.

 

[dogslobber]

I am basing my statement primarily on the contents of this year's WWDC, where these issues were discussed a number of times.

Ah, you drink the kool-aid. In other words, you have no idea.

 

[Miltz]

Sorry for the late response, for some reason MacRumors did not notify me of replies. To clarify I am doing only boot camp, which I believe is the one that only boots one OS at a time right? But I expect my usages to be around the same for at least 3 years because I will still be a university student until then. When I use my laptop I generally close any other applications that I do not use and most of the times it will be just a few tabs open on Safari along with Pages etc. I have used a Mid-2012 non-retina MacBook Pro with 8GB in the past for the same usages and it ran fine until 2016 when I dropped it and the display housing bent and popped out. For now, I am using an Early-2014 MacBook Air with 128 GB and 4 GB RAM. It has been running great for me so far and I'm really enjoying it. I asked whether to upgrade to 16 GB or not originally because I was advised to for future standards but was not sure. But everyone does have a point and I think that I would agree that by the time I need more RAM I would need a new machine anyway because I don't plan on keeping the machine for more than 5 years. However, if it still runs fine and I do not have more heavy hardware needs in 5 years I will probably keep it. Although I do have a new decision I am struggling with. Can anyone give me any advice choosing between the TB and nTB model? I have heard that the touch bar can become annoying for some users or simply useless. Should I spend $300 for 2 more ports and a slightly better processor? Thank you all again!

Honestly, I would look at the MacBook. I got it for my sister and I love it. If I was a student, I would get it without question.

 

[throAU]

I can only hope you are joking with this comment...

There are plenty of professionals buying new machines in 2017 with 8GB of RAM..

There are plenty of "professionals" getting hit with Wannacry, Cryptolocker, etc.

Yes, "8 GB is obsolete today" is pushing a little bit. It's usable right now certainly. But its far from optimal, and making a purchasing decision without looking forwards to the next couple of years and giving yourself the additional flexibility on a machine you're about to drop > $1500 on is somewhat foolish.

The people claiming 8 GB is going to be enough for ages and that hardware requirements are going down sound very much like the guy at IBM in the 50s who said he thought there was a global market for maybe 5 computers, or the quote from Bill Gates (admittedly somewhat out of context) that "640kb should be enough for anybody".

I've used machines with memory capacities ranging from 16 kilobytes to 64 gigabytes, and currently own personal machines with between 2 and 32 gigabytes. With SSDs and without.

My question is, to those who are claiming that 8 GB is plenty: do you own any machines with more? Do you know what the real world difference is like?

My suspicion is: no.

 

[raqball]

There are plenty of "professionals" getting hit with Wannacry, Cryptolocker, etc.

And what on earth does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Yes, "8 GB is obsolete today" is pushing a little bit. It's usable right now certainly. But its far from optimal, and making a purchasing decision without looking forwards to the next couple of years and giving yourself the additional flexibility on a machine you're about to drop > $1500 on is somewhat foolish.

I view future proofing a disposable machine as foolish so I guess we are at an impasse..

The people claiming 8 GB is going to be enough for ages and that hardware requirements are going down sound very much like the guy at IBM in the 50s who said he thought there was a global market for maybe 5 computers, or the quote from Bill Gates (admittedly somewhat out of context) that "640kb should be enough for anybody".

Maybe read the thread? The OP has said he/she is a student with light usage and dual boot... Not a single person has said the machine will last for ages.. Will 8GB still be usable in 3-5 years? My guess is easily YES.. Any further than that and most will already be in a landfill.. These machines are disposable and are non repairable at just about every level..

My question is, to those who are claiming that 8 GB is plenty: do you own any machines with more? Do you know what the real world difference is like?

My suspicion is: no.

Again... Read the thread.. I have a Lenovo X1 Carbon that has 16GB of RAM. My use of it dictates it need more than 8. I also have a Surface Laptop with 8GB of RAM. My use of it does not require wasting $$$ on RAM it will never need or use.

Advocating people flush money down the drain to future proof a disposable machine is odd and I seriously have to wonder if it's just some defending their personal purchasing decision more than anything else...

 

[jerryk]

Given the upcoming CannonLake is showing a 30% performance increase, I would have a hard time spending too much on future proofing.

 

[bjet767]

My question is, to those who are claiming that 8 GB is plenty: do you own any machines with more? Do you know what the real world difference is like?

Yes I do.

Desktop with i7 quad 32 gig 250 SSD and 1tb HD actual perceived performance running FCP compared to 2016 tbMBP with 8 gig running same is zero difference. Also no noticeable differences running Handbrake.

Now if I were to run multiple programs using a lot of memory, say Handbrake while rendering at same time, then yes more is better, but so is having a faster CPU.

Where the extra RAM shines is while running VM with Win10. Which, BTW, maxes the CPU use of both machines.

Most OSX users will never run a VM or run more than one heavy processing program at a time.

Just buy what you want.

 

[jerwin]

Personally, I've got a Bootcamp installation that I bought for Playing Games. After two years of using windows, I'm finding out that most of the games I that I actually play have acceptable performance on the mac side, and various hassles associated with lack of bootcamp disk space and, (for a time) losing access to any access to stuff on my mac outweigh my gains. (The video card in my machine is sufficiently powerful to be acceptable enough for my purposes, even with the macos overhead. I'm not sure that this will apply to a mac laptop.

However, I do use a specialized, windows only cad program quite a lot. I would imagine that this sort of thing runs well on a VM-- (though currently VirtualBox and Bootcamp aren't cooperating for me. Probably has to do with SIP, but I digress)

The OP may find that a class or two may rely on specialized windows software, and running it in a VM may be more convenient than using bootcamp. In university, things can change.

 

[throAU]

Snow Leopard doesn't run on modern hardware, so why would I? Whats relevant here is comparing modern iterations of macOS, like Sierra and High Sierra.

There will be dips and bumps in memory consumption from version to version as code is optimised and then new features are added.

But as I mentioned above, most of the legacy crap has been cut out already; most of the big optimisation wins are done.

From here there is plenty on the horizon that will require more RAM: AR, VR, further sandboxing and virtualisation (whether you do it or not, applications will start doing it more for security), further integration of Siri to do context based virtual assistant stuff, etc.

You may say you don't care about all that, but 1. none of us have seen this future software yet (eventually it will become mainstream and indispensable), and 2. you will get it with the OS upgrade whether you want it or not.

This will require more RAM.

Again, if your plot memory consumption vs. release date for macOS going back to the 80s through today, you'll notice an exponential memory consumption trend, just like any other platform.

 

[Frankfurt]

Lots of passion here...

Probably, if I would be in the OPs shoes I would get a 12" Macbook now and get an MBP once I am done with my studies and re-asses the needs then, if different.

Myself, I am not a heavy user privately, but now also use my own Mac for work and thus decided to buy a maxed out version (other than storage where I stayed at 1T), since I am not sure where this will take me.

I am owning my Late 2008 Macbook still today - but that one I could upgrade myself mid-life with 8GB RAM and SSD.

In the end it also depends, if budget is a constraint. If it isn't, buy as you please.

 

[darksithpro]

IMO 8 gigs of ram is fine for a machine that costs anywhere from 300-800 dollars, but if you're spending over a grand, or more for a computer, then 8 gigs of ram is absurd for 2017, and whoever is selling you that machine is flat out ripping you off.