Have a source for that (that “at least one person on the dev team must have had a Mac they wanted to play the game on”) or is that just your guess?
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A gamer's lament: Apple please let us game on the Mac!
- Thread starter groove-agent
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Have a source for that (that “at least one person on the dev team must have had a Mac they wanted to play the game on”) or is that just your guess?
I was mostly taking issue with the idea that Apple is clueless, or has no strategy, with regards to Mac gaming. I was using perhaps an incorrect argument to fortify that.
It is a guess (especially considering they would need a Mac to test the game, right?).
Which does lead a person to wonder if the rumored — or was it fantasized? — gaming-centric or at least more gamer marketed TV (e.g., a package/config that includes a game controller beyond the TV-type remote) has simply been delayed. That is, when an M series chip can comfortably operate in the enclosure, Apple could truly market it as a console competitor. Essentially, work the game like Nintendo.
I think I have a workable solution for Apple, straight up pay Microsoft for Mac ports and give exclusive deals for iOS.
Microsoft gets access to greater profits from the most profitable sector of gaming, Apple gets Microsoft-ported games.
Microsoft has developers that have experience porting to Apple Silicon already, so there’s no shortage of talent.
To quote Steve Jobs: “Apple winning doesn’t mean Microsoft losing”
My only hitch is that I can’t think of a single reason this would benefit Apple. I’ve said before that gamers would never buy Apple for any reason, and even if this got a few to switch, that’s hardly enough to justify the investment.
That’s about the only thing I can think of that would stop all this whining about games though.
Microsoft gets access to greater profits from the most profitable sector of gaming, Apple gets Microsoft-ported games.
Microsoft has developers that have experience porting to Apple Silicon already, so there’s no shortage of talent.
To quote Steve Jobs: “Apple winning doesn’t mean Microsoft losing”
My only hitch is that I can’t think of a single reason this would benefit Apple. I’ve said before that gamers would never buy Apple for any reason, and even if this got a few to switch, that’s hardly enough to justify the investment.
That’s about the only thing I can think of that would stop all this whining about games though.
Nintendo has had top tier IP since the early 80’s, Sony the 90’s (and they courted many Nintendo defectors!) and Microsoft threw cash around to buy any hot new IPs.
Consoles need a “killer app” or wide compatibility so that consumers don’t feel like they’re missing out by buying into the system. Apple would have neither, and that’s not mentioning that consoles sell at a loss, something Apple doesn’t do.
I think it’s either willful ignorance or just ignoring the market. Or they understand that no matter what they do, they’ll never break into the market to anyone successful degree. (Which is my theory)
I take issue with the idea that Apple is somehow cockblocking games from the system, when they’ve provided all of the tools necessary to build games for the system, and the only tools that don’t work on Mac are 3rd-party.
I think this is the most likely reason for Apple's perceived lack of interest in "AAA" gaming. It's not like they haven't tried in the past. At WWDC 2007, Steve Jobs had the CEO of Electronic Arts featured on stage, where EA announced some "AAA" titles for the Mac. I'm sure Tim Cook and Apple's other top brass remember that, and how EA never followed up with any new games afterward. Apple has far better research data than any of us do.
Apple has shown willingness to work with game developers that want to work with them. Apple has featured the Unity engine in a number of their Mac demos. They worked with Larian on DOS2, which even included Touch Bar support, and have provided them with assistance on BG3. They worked with 4A to get Metro: Exodus to work better with Rosetta 2 on Apple Silicon Macs. Apple provides the tools, will actively work with game developers, but they aren't aggressively courting developers who aren't friendly toward the Mac as a platform.
Another component may be gamers themselves. All you have to do is visit the comments section of Linus Tech Tips videos that feature the Mac. There is a strong aversion among a subset of PC gamers that revile the Mac (even though they have probably never used one). Linus intentionally plays into the Mac stereotype because it helps his business.
Game developers aren't just software engineers, but gamers, as well. I think there is an inherent built-in resistance among the hardcore gaming community that goes back decades. I suspect that the game development studios that support the Mac are also Mac users, so they put the effort into a quality version for the Mac, because they have a personal stake in the Mac's success as a gaming platform.
Hey, do you have any first-hand experience with M1 Macs? I don’t myself, as I’m waiting to see how appealing the upcoming iMac Pro is. As of now, I’m stuck on a late 2012 21.5” iMac.
I think this is the core truth that gets ignored. Gamers would never accept any olive branch from Apple.
And on top of this, Apple has the most profitable storefront on the most profitable platform, iOS.
From a business standpoint, why would you invest tons of time and money, to court a crowd activity hostile to you, in a space where you have zero leverage? I know I wouldn’t. Aside from making sure your own frameworks function, there’s really no reason to go after this crowd.
People used to say the same thing about Microsoft back in the day and look at them now.
I would say that there are two differences. Microsoft has always had its hands in multiple pies. MS Flight Simulator dates back to 1982 and was released for DOS and classic Mac OS. They had a small but ready team to get into gaming. Microsoft has always wanted to dominate all software, even if they don't succeed.
The more important difference is that gamers are already deeply immersed within the Microsoft ecosystem. Almost every gamer going back decades used a Microsoft operating system for gaming, whether that be MS-DOS or Windows 95 onward. Even if you're a console gamer only, you already know Windows from school, work or a home computer. Microsoft owns and defines the APIs that most games already used.
Until recent times, Apple and the Mac were this strange niche meant for graphics designers, desktop publishing and certain parts of the education system. While the general public has become more friendly toward the Mac because they often use iDevices, there is substantial resistance among hardcore PC gamers. I don't think that's a stretch in logic, there's one presenter on Linus' channel that never passes up the opportunity to refer to Apple as a "cult". They play into the stereotype because it never fails to get their audience all hot and bothered because Macs are often seen by that crowd as toys not meant for gaming.
I would wager that many of them have never used a Mac, have no interest in doing so, and it's hard to change that mindset. (It's almost like hardcore PC gamers think like a cult...) Apple is never going to cater toward the folks who do water cooling, select their favorite Noctua heatsink, or even just the average person who replaces a graphics card every couple years. In fact, Apple are heading the opposite direction with their historical vertical integration strategy. Good luck at winning over the Linus, Jayztwocents, Hardware Unboxed and Gamer's Nexus audience with that strategy. It's impressive when Max Tech videos hit 100K hits, until you consider that gaming videos regularly get over a million.
We've been on this same merry-go-round with Apple and gaming for decades, yet they have shown little interest in becoming a gaming powerhouse, and despite all the arguments in this forum, I have yet to see any signs that Apple has any interest in making a substantial push into the "AAA" gaming market.
They did? Cause I’ve been around from the very beginning of computer gaming, and I’ve never heard the same the same thing about Microsoft.
I don't recall people saying that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Linux hippies calling Mac users a "cult." Pot, meet kettle!
This, plus graphics cards are pretty much Wintel only. The only Mac you can do anything with for an upgrade is the really old Mac Pros from before 2013. If I'm spending the money gamers spend on their rig, you can bet Babydog's bottom that I'm going to try and make sure I can at least have a graphic card update before having to fully replace!
Well said, let’s hope it gets through peoples heads.
Until I used a MacBook Air for iOS and unix dev classes I was in that staunchly anti-apple mentality. I know first hand the vitrol towards apple devices.
Then I found myself using my MacBook Air much more over my other, more powerful Windows laptop and since my classes were crossed between compsci and graphics I just made the switch. (This coincided with my declining interest in video games too).
Using Apple for my daily driver changed my outlook, but I can’t see that ever happening for the PCMR crowd.
I agree with his statement 100%. Apart from the Pippin, Apple has never made a big push into gaming apart from providing the platform and tools (API's, SDKs, frameworks and stuff like metal). I agree with you that I do not see this changing anytime soon.
Also to reply to everyone else, back in the day, the landscape was a mix of Amiga, Commodore, Apple 2 (and later the Mac), Amstrad, ZX Spectrum and yes the IBM PC as well. Also possible others I have forgotten about too. Microsoft did have its hand in gaming but it was far more well known for It's OSes, DOS and Windows as well as office and other applications.
Microsoft was not the go to name in gaming back then. Games running on its DOS or Windows platforms are a totally different thing. . . or is it? Back then Microsoft was best known in the gaming space for being the platform that other developers games could be played on. Today that has not really changed. The main difference is that platform has changed from DOS and Windows to anything that has gamepass on it.
Linus has made it obvious in his own videos that he knows jack **** about Linux. LTT is good entertainment but if I want knowledge I go to Hardware Unboxed or Gamers Nexus.Linux hippies calling Mac users a "cult." Pot, meet kettle!
Also, shhh you’ll summon them. Don’t mention them unless you want lectures on the importance of the FOSS philosophy.
Honestly I’m dubious on the whole “upgrade path” point. Maybe it’s because I’ve had laptops for most of my days but to my mind, by the time an upgrade becomes necessary You’re better off doing a new build anyway.
Granted, we’re living in odd times, but gpus from 5 years ago are still adequate for playing most games, CPUS have seen a significant improvement, but you have socket changes to take into account, and RAM isn’t ddr3 anymore.
The biggest benefit I can see is being able to re use parts like a psu, case, and an old gpu (because the market is ****ed). But that’s really more re-using than upgrading.
In the before times folks would regularly talk about how they could build quite a nice PC for the price of a Mac.
But wasn't that the point of the whole LTT Linux challenge? Could someone who doesn't know Linux just use it for gaming? Is Linux ready for prime time for the general consumer? Clearly even by your response the answer is no.
While there is a certain subset of PC gamers hostile to the Mac, I also believe gamers are more likely to be Mac users than the general public. People who play games as a hobby (rather than as casual entertainment) are often tech enthusiasts, and tech enthusiasts are more likely to buy fancy computers. A gaming desktop and a Mac laptop is a common combination among the middle-aged gamers I know, while the only people buying gaming laptops are those who need GPU performance for ML work.
Sony bought Bungie – it's over.
No, just kidding. But I did toy with the idea that Apple should buy Bungie when Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard. In a parallel universe perhaps.
No, just kidding. But I did toy with the idea that Apple should buy Bungie when Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard. In a parallel universe perhaps.
And they are leaving them independent (which Apple could have done as well), so the games should stay Multiplatform.Sony bought Bungie – it's over.
No, just kidding. But I did toy with the idea that Apple should buy Bungie when Microsoft bought Activision Blizzard. In a parallel universe perhaps.