MP 1,1-5,1 Advice on pimping up my Mac Pro please !

[rodedwards]

Just for some fun perspective on how affordable RAM upgrades for 4,1 / 5,1 systems are now... in 2015 I bought 3x 16gb 1333 sticks from Data Memory Systems - it cost me US$537 before shipping. Last month, I bought 3 more from the same company to bring my system up to 96gb, only US$107 before shipping.

This is interesting ... As i can't find ram for really cheap prices - but I'm in UK. Because of BREXIT the £ is low against the $ ... maybe this is why our prices are high.

Any of my UK friends know where to get cheap clasic Mac Pro ram in UK? I looked on ebay, but not 100% sure what works and what doesn't ... These are the ram recommendations tsialex kindly gave me :

1. M393B2G70DB0
   
2. M393B2G70BH0
   
3. KTH-PL313LV/16G
   
4. MT36KSF2G72PZ

Most seem to be 1600mhz speed for "servers" but my computer is an old 2009 Mac Pro 4.1 > 5.1 (not server) and i thought my computer ram speed maxed out at 1333Mhz ...

Are these new chips compatible with my computer ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16GB-Cru...=13312171320657e632b7214e42df8bc8eb476614210c

 

[tsialex]

This is interesting ... As i can't find ram for really cheap prices - but I'm in UK. Because of BREXIT the £ is low against the $ ... maybe this is why our prices are high.

Any of my UK friends know where to get cheap clasic Mac Pro ram in UK? I looked on ebay, but not 100% sure what works and what doesn't ... These are the ram recommendations tsialex kindly gave me :

1. M393B2G70DB0
   
2. M393B2G70BH0
   
3. KTH-PL313LV/16G
   
4. MT36KSF2G72PZ

Most seem to be 1600mhz speed for "servers" but my computer is an old 2009 Mac Pro 4.1 > 5.1 (not server) and i thought my computer ram speed maxed out at 1333Mhz ...

Are these new chips compatible with my computer ?

MP4,1 and MP5,1 are based on Intel Tylersburg/5520 workstation/small server platform and use exactly the same RAM as other Intel Xeon servers of the same era.

All memory that I suggested are MP4,1 and MP5,1 confirmed working, some by lots of people, and the Samsung 1600MHz ECC Registered RAM works at 1333MHz with the benefit of a lot less heat/latency. Check the MP 1,1-5,1 cMP & nMP {MacPro 4,1 & 5,1} Memory Upgrade Compatibility and FAQ thread as I suggested before.

 

[rodedwards]

MP4,1 and MP5,1 are based on Intel Tylersburg/5520 workstation/small server platform and use exactly the same RAM as other Intel Xeon servers of the same era.

All memory that I suggested are MP4,1 and MP5,1 confirmed working, some by lots of people, and the Samsung 1600MHz ECC Registered RAM works at 1333MHz with the benefit of a lot less heat/latency. Check the MP 1,1-5,1 cMP & nMP {MacPro 4,1 & 5,1} Memory Upgrade Compatibility and FAQ thread as I suggested before.

Big thanks again tsialex ! You da man ... I'll give it a try ... appreciate you saving me a few £'s

 

[mattspace]

This is interesting ... As i can't find ram for really cheap prices - but I'm in UK. Because of BREXIT the £ is low against the $ ... maybe this is why our prices are high.

The pound is ~2x the value of the AU$ so YMMV, but I've found DMS to be a good supplier - lifetime replacement warranties on all the stuff they supply, etc. That EBAY link you posted is actually more expensive than DMS' prices when converted to US$.

Here's a link to ram suitable for your machine (it'll run at 1333 once you firmware upgrade and put in new processors etc)
https://www.datamemorysystems.com/a...06ghz-md771ll/a-cto-mid-2012-memory-upgrades/

 

[rodedwards]

The pound is ~2x the value of the AU$ so YMMV, but I've found DMS to be a good supplier - lifetime replacement warranties on all the stuff they supply, etc. That EBAY link you posted is actually more expensive than DMS' prices when converted to US$.

Here's a link to ram suitable for your machine (it'll run at 1333 once you firmware upgrade and put in new processors etc)
https://www.datamemorysystems.com/a...06ghz-md771ll/a-cto-mid-2012-memory-upgrades/

Thanks for this link ... But would rather purchase from UK as i've been hit hard with import charges and vat when buying from USA and overseas. All of a sudden, the bargain isn't such a bargain and you have problems with returns.

Will check out ebay ...

 

[rodedwards]

MP4,1 and MP5,1 are based on Intel Tylersburg/5520 workstation/small server platform and use exactly the same RAM as other Intel Xeon servers of the same era.

All memory that I suggested are MP4,1 and MP5,1 confirmed working, some by lots of people, and the Samsung 1600MHz ECC Registered RAM works at 1333MHz with the benefit of a lot less heat/latency. Check the MP 1,1-5,1 cMP & nMP {MacPro 4,1 & 5,1} Memory Upgrade Compatibility and FAQ thread as I suggested before.

I found this on ebay ... Uk seller ... I think it's one you kindly recommended so will give it a try...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16GB-Cru...F-PC3L-10600R-1333MHz-ECC-Memory/133121713206

 

[rodedwards]

Another quick question ... as i don't quite understand how ram works in my Mac Pro 5,1.

I currently have a total of 32gb ram - 8 x 4Gb ... using all eight ram slots.

If i want to upgrade to 48Gb - am i best to buy 6 x 8Gb or 3 x 16Gb ... or keep 4 x 4Gb and add 2 x 16Gb over six slots?

Which is faster and can i mix ram?

 

[m11rphy]

Hi everyone ...

I'd like some advice on upgrading my 2009 classic 4,1 Mac Pro please (firmware updated to v5,1).

As you can see from system profile report, I have already upgraded processors, ram and hard drive to Samsung 840 EVO 1TB 2.5-inch Basic SATA Solid State Drive connected via PCIe. I also just upgraded the graphics card to an AMD Radeon RX580 Sapphire Pulse with full Mac EFI support. These cards are now sold refurbished by https://www.macstoreuk.com/product/amd-radeon-rx580-8gb-with-mac-efi/ and allow Mac Boot screen.

I think the bottleneck is the six year old Samsung Evo 840 SSD. So i'm seriously considering upgrading the Samsung 840 Evo hard drive as it only reads / writes at under 500Mb/s.

Is it easy to fit a 1Tb Samsung 970 NVMe SSD (1,500Mb/s) that will also be bootable or am i better with a standard and newer 2.5" SSD?

Any advantages upgrading ram to 64Gb too - I'm mainly using Photoshop and FCPX to edit 8k video.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated ...

Can I think you are in the UK can I asked where you got you X5690's and how much you paid?

 

[rodedwards]

Can I think you are in the UK can I asked where you got you X5690's and how much you paid?

Sure ... I got the 5690's fitted by https://create.pro/ in Ipswich. Excellent service and very helpful. Can't remember price as it was three years ago now ... but they gave my old Mac a new lease of life. Highly recommend them ...

 

[m11rphy]

Sure ... I got the 5690's fitted by https://create.pro/ in Ipswich. Excellent service and very helpful. Can't remember price as it was three years ago now ... but they gave my old Mac a new lease of life. Highly recommend them ...

Thanks buddy I'll check it out

 

[mattspace]

Another quick question ... as i don't quite understand how ram works in my Mac Pro 5,1.

I currently have a total of 32gb ram - 8 x 4Gb ... using all eight ram slots.

If i want to upgrade to 48Gb - am i best to buy 6 x 8Gb or 3 x 16Gb ... or keep 4 x 4Gb and add 2 x 16Gb over six slots?

Which is faster and can i mix ram?

On a dual processor machine, you have 3 ram channels & 4 ram slots per CPU. The fastest setup is 6 slots filled, that way each cpu has access to ram in its own side. However, you're probably not going to notice much difference between 6x8gb or 3x16gb. Going with 3x16 gives you room to expand without having to lose ram in the process. Generally 16gb RDIMM sticks don't play well with anything that isn't also 16gb RDIMM. Depending on your budget, an easy solution is to get 3x16 GB now, so you've got 48, and then if you want more down the road, buy another 3x16 to bring the machine up to 96.

 

[tsialex]

On a dual processor machine, you have 3 ram channels & 4 ram slots per CPU. The fastest setup is 6 slots filled, that way each cpu has access to ram in its own side. However, you're probably not going to notice much difference between 6x8gb or 3x16gb. Going with 3x16 gives you room to expand without having to lose ram in the process. Generally 16gb RDIMM sticks don't play well with anything that isn't also 16gb RDIMM. Depending on your budget, an easy solution is to get 3x16 GB now, so you've got 48, and then if you want more down the road, buy another 3x16 to bring the machine up to 96.

Sorry but this is just wrong. If only one CPU has RAM, like with your suggestion, all memory access of the other CPU will have NUMA penalty and then you have the worst RAM config scenario.

With a dual CPU tray, just buy 6x8 or 6x16. 3x16 is only for single CPU boards.

You can buy 3x16 and use your old RAM if:

• same type of RAM (ECC/registered, ECC/unbuffered, unbuffered) only, you can't mix match.
• same quantity of banks and same rank, sometimes different bank/rank works but it's a lottery and very complex situation to debug.
• same speed/latency or everything will work as the speed/latency of the worst.

Btw, with different RAM sizes between CPUs, you have NUMA penalty too, but a lot less severe.

 

[rodedwards]

On a dual processor machine, you have 3 ram channels & 4 ram slots per CPU. The fastest setup is 6 slots filled, that way each cpu has access to ram in its own side. However, you're probably not going to notice much difference between 6x8gb or 3x16gb. Going with 3x16 gives you room to expand without having to lose ram in the process. Generally 16gb RDIMM sticks don't play well with anything that isn't also 16gb RDIMM. Depending on your budget, an easy solution is to get 3x16 GB now, so you've got 48, and then if you want more down the road, buy another 3x16 to bring the machine up to 96.

Big thanks guys for the input ! Thanks for interjecting too tsialex ...

I wasn't quite sure what mattspace means when he says "Generally 16gb RDIMM sticks don't play well with anything that isn't also 16gb RDIMM." This is what i hope to buy - i think they are the right ones ... Following your buying recommendation Tsialex

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16GB-Cru...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

[tsialex]

I wasn't quite sure what mattspace means when he says "Generally 16gb RDIMM sticks don't play well with anything that isn't also 16gb RDIMM."

Already explained "same quantity of banks and same rank, sometimes different bank/rank works but it's a lottery and very complex situation to debug"

 

[rodedwards]

So that means - make sure i buy all the same make and model of chips so they match? Sorry if i sound stupid (!!!) ... just not sure what i'm doing !

 

[tsialex]

So that means - make sure i buy all the same make and model of chips so they match? Sorry if i sound stupid (!!!) ... just not sure what i'm doing !

Yes.

 

[rodedwards]

BIG BIG Thanks ! I think i'll splash out on 6x16Gb.

 

[mattspace]

Sorry but this is just wrong. If only one CPU has RAM, like with your suggestion, all memory access of the other CPU will have NUMA penalty and then you have the worst RAM config scenario.

With a dual CPU tray, just buy 6x8 or 6x16. 3x16 is only for single CPU boards.

Well, it’s a recommended configuration in Apple’s support docs for the machine, which make no warnings of its unsuitability in dual processor systems - if it was a real issue, they’d warn to only upgrade dual systems in pairs (which a number of their older PPC systems required). Again, is it a difference, vs. a noticeable difference.

 

[tsialex]

Well, it’s a recommended configuration in Apple’s support docs for the machine, which make no warnings of its unsuitability in dual processor systems - if it was a real issue, they’d warn to only upgrade dual systems in pairs (which a number of their older PPC systems required). Again, is it a difference, vs. a noticeable difference.

It's a working configuration, but it's the slowest by very far supported configuration. If you have an application requires small amount of memory, NUMA penalty is almost non noticeable, but if you have something that requires considerable amount, it's the worst possible supported arrangement of memory since all memory access from the CPU without RAM will be via NUMA.

 

[mattspace]

It's a working configuration, but it's the slowest by very far supported configuration.

So what are you thinking in terms of actual penalty - I mean I've done multi-gigapixel image stitching processes that use 24GB of RAM on their own and max all 12 physical cores, in a 3x16GB system, with no virtual memory activity. I'd imagine memory is likely a rounding error in terms of slowdown, compared to loading source files from spinning disks etc.

For example, It's interesting that on a system with 2 DIMMS, they don't recommend one per processor.

 

[yurc]

Another quick question ... as i don't quite understand how ram works in my Mac Pro 5,1.

I currently have a total of 32gb ram - 8 x 4Gb ... using all eight ram slots.

If i want to upgrade to 48Gb - am i best to buy 6 x 8Gb or 3 x 16Gb ... or keep 4 x 4Gb and add 2 x 16Gb over six slots?

Which is faster and can i mix ram?

Testing on my own machine (sig below), triple channel config (6x8/48GB) gave me slightly faster Geekbench 4 result about 10% compared with all DIMM occupied (8x8/64GB), but in the end I’m choose maximum memory route with all DIMM slots filled up.

At this machine age, I’m prefer to max out what it worth for my usage, I find extra memory with some performances penalty are better instead of some performance bump. Planning to use 16GB ECC sticks in near future to make it 128GB. If I need performance and speed usually I move to my another workstation.

 

[tsialex]

So what are you thinking in terms of actual penalty - I mean I've done multi-gigapixel image stitching processes that use 24GB of RAM on their own and max all 12 physical cores, in a 3x16GB system, with no virtual memory activity. I'd imagine memory is likely a rounding error in terms of slowdown, compared to loading source files from spinning disks etc.

For example, It's interesting that on a system with 2 DIMMS, they don't recommend one per processor.

For memory bound applications, like database and scientific ones, it's enormous penalty since for every memory request that a no-local-RAM core do, in simplified terms:

1. the no-local-RAM memory controller sends a QPI read(or write) request to the local-memory-RAM memory controller,
2. the local-memory-RAM memory controller reads(or writes) the requested data from the RAM,
3. sends it via QPI link to the no-local memory RAM memory controller,
4. then only after all that it's available to the no-local RAM core.

This process is even more complex since I didn't even talk about cache/cache coherence here and takes an enormous time when compared to local memory access. The exactly same process happens when both processors have with local memory, but the requested data is in the other processor RAM.

 

[rodedwards]

Just bought 6 x 16Gb new from PCBits in UK - £27.45 inc vat and free first class tracked post. They also sell on ebay - but are more expensive than direct. They have also offered me a return if it doesn't work properly in my Mac Pro 2009. Will shout if i have any problems. Crucial Micron memory made in China.

16GB Crucial Micron MT36KSF2G72PZ-1G4E1LE PC3L-10600R 1333MHz ECC Memory 2Rx4.

https://www.pcbitz.com/products/237...g72pz-1g4e1le-pc3l-10600r-1333mhz-ecc-memory/

Thanks again for your help ...

 

[AppleDrank]

Download the Mojave installer and upgrade your Boot ROM to 144.0.0.0.0 before you install the NVME as your boot drive.

Many people including me are stuck on previous firmware. Per the sticky:

- 140.0.0.0.0 to 144.0.0.0.0 firmware upgrade note:

The fail-proof way to upgrade a MP5,1 firmware is to fully erase a SATA drive, install High Sierra 10.13.6 to it, download 10.14.5 full installer, clear the NVRAM 3 times in sequence, after that you try to upgrade the firmware running the Mojave full installer.

See this thread Updating my MacPro 5.1 from 140.0.0.0.0 to 144.0.0.0.0 does not work

(Thanks, Tsialex)

After you have your Boot ROM at 144.0.0.0.0, and Mojave installed, you can use Carbon Copy Cloner to clone your SATA SSD to your NVME drive. Yes you can clone your "live" boot disk with Carbon Copy Cloner. Saved my bacon today in fact.

 

[zangsax]

I am out of my mind. I have tried to upgrade my MacPro 5,1(flashed4,1) with a sapphireRadeon rx580 8mb which has been running 13.6 with boot rom144.0.0.0.0 just fine Mojave installs ,then tells me it need to restart. It loses video and the computer will not start or restart unless I remove the Drive that I installed Mohave to to . (not my main boot drive) I startup, shutdown, startup and can run 13.6 just fine again even with the "bad drive" in the machine but not booted from. I have tried 10 times , waited very long (1hr) for video to show up after Mohave installation, wiped drives reformatted drives , used CCCloner,not used CCcloner, everything I can find on the web and when the machine is running 13.6 from my chosen boot drive and I install Mojave anywhere machine bricks. tried installing on boot drive too. Help Id like to get the New Logic but it won't run on High Dierra. Thank You anyone