tilt the screen forward or backward one millimeter and you'll say ... 'where did the lines go 
lol.
lol.
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After extensive testing, I couldn't determine what is causing the lines on the MBA!
- Thread starter Scottsdale
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A bit ironic, as your post is the 'mega-paragraphs' you complain about.
So we're in agreement then that the lines aren't an OCD issue. It's a real issue and whether or not one does anything about it is up to the individual owner.
This isn't your thread to decide what to do with it. You are dead wrong for making such a statement. How would you like it if someone came around posting close thread on each of your threads?
Thanks for your comments ... anyone else here notice some of the elitists here are a defensive 'smart-assed' bunch ??
You're wondering where I use my Air, and if I use it as a "toy" and if I depend on my laptop to make a living, and whether or not I'm a heavy duty user. Is that why you're trying to say???
I'd be happy to answer your questions. Well, I don't have a pool so I can't use it there. As for a "lounge toy", while it's not that, it certainly is an enjoyable notebook to type on, my favorite notebook so far and I've owned many.
Yes, I very much depend on my computer to make a living. I'm a business owner, we own a manufacturing and design company, (we design consumer parts and products, I have a small staff of Engineers, Production and warehouse personel, I also own a Marketing Company doing anything from launching our products through to TV/Video promotions.
I'm on my computer 7 days a week, 365 days a year, we manage Projects on three continents, I have a 3G Internet stick, my MBA suits "anywhere computing very well". Without a doubt I'm on a computer far more than the average person, my hobbies like surfing macrumors, movie watcing etc all entail a computer .... so yes I'm a heavy duty user and a computer is crucial to my work.
I've answered your questions, thanks again.
Now, let's go back to this line issue. Among my staff and friends there are 7 MacBook Air's, all Revb's bought at different times. There's no lines
Let me give you an example, I wanted to check out my friends MBA, it was closed on his desk, I flipped it open, went to google notes, (white page) and guess what!? I saw lines
I called my friend over and asked him, he saw no lines, I moved the display forward and backward a little at a time and asked him to watch carefully and finally when tilted just a certain way he could see the 'faint gray lines'. Another way to find them is to put you face 4" in front of the screen - you may or may not see them...
After looking at 6 MBA's of associates, plus my own and the displays at the Apple Stores/Best Buy etc in my experience it's not a problem. Just tilt the screen 1mm if you do see anything, turn down your brightness or the easiest of all look at the text your typing or reading, don't stare/focus on the background.
Lines or no lines my rant it how it's been written about here, 10's of thousands of words, posts of 'mega-paragraphs' on and on and on about lines, you're bringing people down, and YOU YOURSELVES admit that maybe you can't see them all the time, or you're not sure, and 95% of the people will never ever see them, yet you're the first ones who chirp and smart-ass at people who can't see lines or don't think it's a big issue as some of you do here.
OK, let's say it is a problem and you want it fixed ... then why the hell are you writing novels here about it? Whining, concocting special tests, and on and on some more ... it is ridiculous !!
You have a problem and you want it fixed then PHONE APPLE !!! That's doing something constructive and may just solve your problem. Has Apple ever said "No" to anyone who's bought a notebook, had a display issue and asked for it to be fixed?
This is a VERY informative forum, but it's been recently littered with endless junk posts, and in this case posts complaining about things you all admit 95% of the population will not notice ...
Anyway, write the final chapter, close the book, got a problem call Apple, the MBA in my experience is a GREAT machine with an outstanding display .... see lines? tilt the screen 1 or 2 mm, if that doesn't work call Apple OR continue to be silly and write here about it were no one can really solve the problem for you, LOL...
What a hypocrite! Who is writing a novel here?
You may want to bash all of us because you cannot see the lines, but there are many of us who have had lines ruin our experiences with the MBAs. The lines are definitely there, apparently on the vast majority of the new 2.13 MBAs.
I had a beautiful rev B MBA with 1.86 GHz CPU and SSD, and the display was impeccable. Unfortunately, Apple did not reward me with a new MBA without lines, even with my many blessings of the MBA, and a purchase after my worst Mac ever which was absolutely unusable even as a secondary Mac (the original MBA).
Now, I returned three MBAs to get a fourth MBA. Two of the MBAs had lines, the third MBA was DOA (it wouldn't turn on)! Still have lines, and they are visible sometimes. They do ruin the experience whenever they pop up. And, really I am lucky, as some people with severely affected displays see the lines full force all the time. When I walk up to an MBA, I can instantly see the lines (if it has a bad display).
I dearly love the MBA, but I want the lines to be gone. Apple obviously is not fixing the lines, so I am going to try to. Why do you care if I want to spend my time and money doing this? Why would you want to come out and criticize me, when I am sharing with everyone.
I have a hard time just taking crap here all of the time especially when I am trying to help more than just myself.
WHATEVER!!! Please stay off my thread if you choose not to assist and only to criticize others who have a genuine problem and we want it solved/fixed.
tilt the screen forward or backward one millimeter and you'll say ... 'where did the lines go
God, if only this were TRUE! Biggest BS on the threads right now. The lines don't go away by doing anything. They come and go when and however they please. When they are there, they are simple to spot and annoying!
Heh... just like February eh? Let's not write novels for each others and just let go of people who don't have any points. The more pages of novel people write the more enthusiastic the story gets, thus more likely for real closing, like back then... In fact, I tend to skip 80% of a post when it has more than 20 lines...
I've never been able to make the lines go away. The screen is also far dimmer than good screens.
Might have found something.
I noticed lines when I first wake up from sleep from my imac G3 same as the Airs and I can keep them on there by changing the power going to the screen. It seems if enough power is there they disappear maybe a way to conserve energy?
I noticed lines when I first wake up from sleep from my imac G3 same as the Airs and I can keep them on there by changing the power going to the screen. It seems if enough power is there they disappear maybe a way to conserve energy?
Tackle the lines issue
OK there, at least a nice thread addressing the technical aspect of the problem.
So on my MBA 1,86 128 9C9A display (supposedly one of the better ones) I do have the lines, I can see them from normal working distance but I can live with it. Would like to know a reason or a possible treatment nonetheless of course.
Whatever we see on our display is light passing through quite some layers of covers, so there are different possible sources for the lines.
Either it is the display itself or something happening on the way of the light.
So, here comes my preferred explanation:
Maybe it is one of the polarizing covers (there are usually two, right? I did not disassemble an air display yet, in most they are there) or both of them causing a Moire pattern. This could be caused by an non precise aligning of both foils and would result in exactly what we see.
It could furthermore explain the variability observed:
One batch of display models is presumably assembled with the frame at the same time and the same place, an other batch and model at a different time, so the model of the display could indicate the quality of assembly at one time. Slight differences in the lines could resemble small quality aberrations.
How to test it? I fear, the only way would be to disassemble the display compartment and check the individual parts of the covering (and in combination) in front of a light source.
When switched of, the display will be black, right? So you would not see anything presumably if you just disconnect the display cable while leaving the backlight on.
If that theory should hold true, a way to fix the issue would be to get a set of polarizing foils from a different display and replace the original ones.
I will frequently check ebay for defect displays to check this theory, for I really do not want to do that to my Air right now. Right now, I can´t find any.
Please let me know what you think of that theory!
Oh, and if you consider the lines as a non-issue, please refrain from posting an answer.
OK there, at least a nice thread addressing the technical aspect of the problem.
So on my MBA 1,86 128 9C9A display (supposedly one of the better ones) I do have the lines, I can see them from normal working distance but I can live with it. Would like to know a reason or a possible treatment nonetheless of course.
Whatever we see on our display is light passing through quite some layers of covers, so there are different possible sources for the lines.
Either it is the display itself or something happening on the way of the light.
So, here comes my preferred explanation:
Maybe it is one of the polarizing covers (there are usually two, right? I did not disassemble an air display yet, in most they are there) or both of them causing a Moire pattern. This could be caused by an non precise aligning of both foils and would result in exactly what we see.
It could furthermore explain the variability observed:
One batch of display models is presumably assembled with the frame at the same time and the same place, an other batch and model at a different time, so the model of the display could indicate the quality of assembly at one time. Slight differences in the lines could resemble small quality aberrations.
How to test it? I fear, the only way would be to disassemble the display compartment and check the individual parts of the covering (and in combination) in front of a light source.
When switched of, the display will be black, right? So you would not see anything presumably if you just disconnect the display cable while leaving the backlight on.
If that theory should hold true, a way to fix the issue would be to get a set of polarizing foils from a different display and replace the original ones.
I will frequently check ebay for defect displays to check this theory, for I really do not want to do that to my Air right now. Right now, I can´t find any.
Please let me know what you think of that theory!
Oh, and if you consider the lines as a non-issue, please refrain from posting an answer.
Have you ever looked at an LCD through polarized lenses? It looks weird and you see imperfections immediately. I am going out to buy some polarized lenses to see if I can see anything at all. It's a possibility, I guess.
Several people have hypothesized the layers. I even said once that maybe it has to do with pressure on the lower layers from the outer plastic.
I wish we could experiment with removing layers, but I assume that would instantly ruin the display. I guess if I can find a nice original MBA display for cheap, I would try it.
Maybe you can try an alternate source of backlighting to determine if the backlight is the cause. Maybe cut the backlight all the way down and project another light source through the display to see if the lines are visible? Of course, this would involve keeping the display connected while it is removed from the casing, but it might be a valid test to conduct.
Nice idea, but very difficult to test, without potentially tearing apart the display??? Really wish Apple would have fixed this themselves... LOL.
Thanks for the idea!
my 2 cents
My observation is not that there are dark lines, but brighter lines, it's the contrast that causes the normal brightness sections to appear dark. I do not think it is the pixels, or even the backlighting for that matter. I think it is more physical.
Has anyone removed the panel and looked at the last couple of layers of reflective sheeting on the back of the LCD? These layers are usually applied in sheets, then the extra is cut off of the sides. The stuff comes in rolls, a spray adhesive is applied and then the LCD itself is set flat on it. A squeegee (for lack of a better description) is scrapped with a little pressure to squeeze any bubbles out. It is this scrapping action that I think may be causing the lines. If the squeegee has a serrated edge instead of a flat one there will be even indentions in the reflective sheet running parallel from one side to the other.
I think this uneven but consistent application is causing just a little extra reflection along those lines. The contrast of the thin, bright lines against the normal brightness of the display would vary to the end user based on environmental lighting.
Since this is occurring in the manufacturing process it should be consistent for every display coming off of a single production line, or all similarly configured production lines.
These lines should be visible on the sheets attached to the back of the display, let me know what you find as I rely on my Rev-A for absolutely everything and can't afford to disassemble it right now
My observation is not that there are dark lines, but brighter lines, it's the contrast that causes the normal brightness sections to appear dark. I do not think it is the pixels, or even the backlighting for that matter. I think it is more physical.
Has anyone removed the panel and looked at the last couple of layers of reflective sheeting on the back of the LCD? These layers are usually applied in sheets, then the extra is cut off of the sides. The stuff comes in rolls, a spray adhesive is applied and then the LCD itself is set flat on it. A squeegee (for lack of a better description) is scrapped with a little pressure to squeeze any bubbles out. It is this scrapping action that I think may be causing the lines. If the squeegee has a serrated edge instead of a flat one there will be even indentions in the reflective sheet running parallel from one side to the other.
I think this uneven but consistent application is causing just a little extra reflection along those lines. The contrast of the thin, bright lines against the normal brightness of the display would vary to the end user based on environmental lighting.
Since this is occurring in the manufacturing process it should be consistent for every display coming off of a single production line, or all similarly configured production lines.
These lines should be visible on the sheets attached to the back of the display, let me know what you find as I rely on my Rev-A for absolutely everything and can't afford to disassemble it right now
But if you can find an air with a broken hinge you might be able to snag it cheap. Plus I think you are onto something with the idea that the backlight isn't getting enough power. External displays don't exhibit this behavior and it's not present in the MacBook or the 13" pro, both of which share the 9400 with the air. So in my mind that rules out the graphics card and driver. This leads mr to wonder what panels are used in the umb and 13" pro. Could it possibly be the same panel? Let's get some data on that for comparison as well.
I got some interesting results yesterday when testing some theories. I am hopeful to get another MBA with lines to test today, as my results need to be repeatable to prove anything. Otherwise, it could be just a fluke.
Sorry to not share more, but I don't want to get anyone's hopes up unnecessarily. Will be back here posting results later tonight.
Sorry to not share more, but I don't want to get anyone's hopes up unnecessarily. Will be back here posting results later tonight.
Solutions:
1. Move screen forward or backward 1 or 2mm - lines disappear!
2. Calibrate your screen, switch from 1.8 to 2.2
3. QUIT STARING AT YOUR SCREEN UNTIL YOU SEE LINES Read the text/graphics in front of the background - that's the whole idea.
As many have already agreed 95% + will never see ANY LINES so how the MBA Forum turned into an Engineering Problem Solving Project run by unqualified speculators ... I mean ... why here? Why the volume and volumes of notes and pages, WE can't fix it, WE here all are likely unqualified and have NO IDEA where to look or how to solve, so isn't all this really a complete waste of space and time AND shouldn't all these questions be sent directly to APPLE the manufacturer of the product, who knows it, can find the problem and comment on it. Apple doesn't ignore people, like some PC companies do, so if it is a problem why not bring the problem to those who can realistically provide a solution???
Instead, the problem noticed by less than 5% of the people is bogging this forum down, bringing people down, let's drop this, write Apple tech support to satisfy the 5% who are line crazy and leave this for the 95% of the people who love their MBA's have real questions and are sick like am about reading about lines lines lines lines every time I take a look in the MBA section ... it's TOO MUCH.
1. Move screen forward or backward 1 or 2mm - lines disappear!
2. Calibrate your screen, switch from 1.8 to 2.2
3. QUIT STARING AT YOUR SCREEN UNTIL YOU SEE LINES
Read the text/graphics in front of the background - that's the whole idea.As many have already agreed 95% + will never see ANY LINES so how the MBA Forum turned into an Engineering Problem Solving Project run by unqualified speculators ... I mean ... why here? Why the volume and volumes of notes and pages, WE can't fix it, WE here all are likely unqualified and have NO IDEA where to look or how to solve, so isn't all this really a complete waste of space and time AND shouldn't all these questions be sent directly to APPLE the manufacturer of the product, who knows it, can find the problem and comment on it. Apple doesn't ignore people, like some PC companies do, so if it is a problem why not bring the problem to those who can realistically provide a solution???
Instead, the problem noticed by less than 5% of the people is bogging this forum down, bringing people down, let's drop this, write Apple tech support to satisfy the 5% who are line crazy and leave this for the 95% of the people who love their MBA's have real questions and are sick like am about reading about lines lines lines lines every time I take a look in the MBA section ... it's TOO MUCH.
You're the genuine novelist here Scottsdale I wouldn't want to take that title away.
blah, blah, blah got a problem contact Apple Tech Support, they'd be happy to help you I'm sure.
Read back a little, I'm not the only one bashing your "I'm going to analyze the Apples MBA line issue" venture, you say only 5% or less see it, or that it bothers 5%, well that also translates into 95% of us not know what the hell you're talking about, and 95% of us are getting sick and tired of your OCD and whining about it, sorry to be frank but you sparked up the words and I'm only too happy to respond.
Anyway, it's a public forum I'll continue to comment when and where I'd like too, in the mean time no need for you to reply, you'll need to get back to your line analysis ... what's the first 4 letters of 'analysis' spell Scottsdale?
HEY, did I mention Apple has a Toll Free Tech Support number, they'd be happy to solve your problem immediately, just ask.
Makes me wonder just how much or how little experience you have with Apple. It's precisely because Apple did ignore all the returns, exchanges and complaints that the issue persists in the latest revision. Indeed, Apple is notorious for ignoring people, especially when it comes to a perceived shortcoming in one of their perfect products.
I guess I just don't understand why you're attacking Scottsdale. He's trying to discover and provide a solution that Apple was unwilling to provide, for a problem that is bothering a lot of users. I don't know if it's 5% or 0.5% but it doesn't matter. He's investing his own time and money to fix a problem that bothers him, and he's willing to share any positive results with anyone else who may be interested. What's wrong with that?
Are you really sick and tired of his OCD, or is it your own that might be bothering you? Sucks to keep getting reminded of an issue you'd rather rationalize away with "solutions" that aren't solutions. If that's so, why not just ignore Scottsdale's posts? Easy enough to do.
Personally, I'm thankful for the work Scottsdale is putting into this---and I don't even own an Air anymore. I would if it weren't that Apple does so blatantly ignore people.
MBA(s) you own/owned:3
Display(s) own/owned:3
How you rate lines on your own MBA(s):None
What is your proposed potential cause of the lines?
Not enough power to screens.
What is your proposed potential solution to the lines?
Force or divert more power to screens.
What ways can you think of to test your cause/solution?
In a sense I have tested it on my iMac G3 and a compaq monitor.
Display(s) own/owned:3
How you rate lines on your own MBA(s):None
What is your proposed potential cause of the lines?
Not enough power to screens.
What is your proposed potential solution to the lines?
Force or divert more power to screens.
What ways can you think of to test your cause/solution?
In a sense I have tested it on my iMac G3 and a compaq monitor.
what a waste of time. Just dont buy the MBA. Apple will have to replace the defect hardware because of less buyers. Apple is becoming the new microsoft haha.
So i was at the apple store picking up a case for my MBA and i thought i would randomly ask about the line to one of the tech people. They said they know all about it (this was at the APPLE store in Clarendon, VA). They said the lines are due to either 1 of 2 problems.
1. Logic Board - Connect your Air to an external monitor and see if the lines come up on the external monitor... in that case its a logic board problem come in and they'll fix it.
2. If you connect it and NO lines then its a display screen issue bring it in and they'll fix it. Apparently they've fixed QUITE a few of these...
I'm still psuedo stumped by these lines... I think I see them but what I see may be normal... but its definitely not enough... at this moment to go see if they can "fix" the problem. But just something interesting.
Someone knows whats going on... someone always knows its just getting that info out there is whats difficult. If anything call the store!! and say you came in earlier in the week and had mentioned that you had these lines and see what they tell you. you'll obviously ask better questions than me.
1. Logic Board - Connect your Air to an external monitor and see if the lines come up on the external monitor... in that case its a logic board problem come in and they'll fix it.
2. If you connect it and NO lines then its a display screen issue bring it in and they'll fix it. Apparently they've fixed QUITE a few of these...
I'm still psuedo stumped by these lines... I think I see them but what I see may be normal... but its definitely not enough... at this moment to go see if they can "fix" the problem. But just something interesting.
Someone knows whats going on... someone always knows its just getting that info out there is whats difficult. If anything call the store!! and say you came in earlier in the week and had mentioned that you had these lines and see what they tell you. you'll obviously ask better questions than me.
Solutions:
1. Move screen forward or backward 1 or 2mm - lines disappear!
2. Calibrate your screen, switch from 1.8 to 2.2
3. QUIT STARING AT YOUR SCREEN UNTIL YOU SEE LINES
As many have already agreed 95% + will never see ANY LINES so how the MBA Forum turned into an Engineering Problem Solving Project run by unqualified speculators ... I mean ... why here? Why the volume and volumes of notes and pages, WE can't fix it, WE here all are likely unqualified and have NO IDEA where to look or how to solve, so isn't all this really a complete waste of space and time AND shouldn't all these questions be sent directly to APPLE the manufacturer of the product, who knows it, can find the problem and comment on it. Apple doesn't ignore people, like some PC companies do, so if it is a problem why not bring the problem to those who can realistically provide a solution???
Instead, the problem noticed by less than 5% of the people is bogging this forum down, bringing people down, let's drop this, write Apple tech support to satisfy the 5% who are line crazy and leave this for the 95% of the people who love their MBA's have real questions and are sick like am about reading about lines lines lines lines every time I take a look in the MBA section ... it's TOO MUCH.
You already stated all of this, and you're full of CRAP! You don't know what you're talking about, and you are quick to judge others who aren't blind. I have returned THREE. Apple hasn't fixed the issue. Apple is NOT fixing the issue, and Apple doesn't do anything except exchange for another MBA with lines! I had a rev B MBA with 9C9A, and it didn't have lines, so I know that line-free displays exist in rev B MBAs. The new MBAs all have 9C90 displays which are displaying lines on nearly all the MBAs reported.
Please stay off my thread if you don't want or care to include useful advice.
Quite honestly, you're in denial or just plain BLIND.
It has never been reported from an MBA to an external display. Fixing it has NEVER worked. In the new MBA, roughly 90% reported have lines... and the other 10% are probably affected too but reported by people who cannot see them.
I WISH Apple could fix this, as it would save me a whole lot of headache and time for returns! The bottom line is Apple doesn't give a crap.
Good on you Scottsdale for the effort your putting into this. Dont be listening to the other people downing you, aint seeing them doing anything constructive like this.
Looking forward to seeing what results you get.
Looking forward to seeing what results you get.