Theres no burn in but the firmware they launch with isnt very good. The update for me and others improves things 3C vs 3B. Being apple you cant control when this happen so i put them on and off a couple times to see if it forced the update
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AirPods Max vs. Bose 700/Sony WH-1000xM4：Which will win?
- Thread starter Daisy Smith
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Well, it's not unlike camera lenses. A Canon 85mm f1.8 is a great lens, and it's a bit over $400. But the Canon 85mm f1.2 is a whopping $2000. Yes, it's a better lens in most respects, but $1600 better? Probably not. Still in addition to the few who really need that additional 2/3 stop of low-light ability and shallower depth of field, there are some who simply want the better lens, even if the price is not proportional to the benefit gained.
Doesn’t Siri work on other headphones when holding down the talk button? And “integration across Apple devices” it’s like...other headphones can connect to two devices at the same time. So not sure apples auto switching is even that impressive
seems like a lot of justifications to spend twice as much for something
Similar situation here... had the NC700 already, bought the APM expecting them to not be much (if at all) better than the Bose, and fully expected to return the APM after trying them. I was wrong... sold the NC700 a few days later.
+1 to that. Yes, APM was expensive but after the NC700 trade-in not outrageously so. APM is in a different class in every area that matters to me. Not always by a big margin, but it all adds up pretty quickly. It's just a better product. And I'd buy it even if it said Samsung or Belkin on the side.
Nice, your experiences with the Bose NC700 mimic mine.
This should help somewhat if folks own the Bose NC700 and wondering if they should try the APM and go for the higher price. I say yes, at least try the APM.
The APM is a tougher choice to consider than the B&W px7 wireless headphone. That one is outstanding for the cost.
There are serious omissions for this “which will win“ thread by the way, I can name at least a handful of wireless headphones I found better than the Sony or Bose for the cost, the B&W one of them. Goes to show what brands get marketed the most in reviews and YouTube. Don't follow the hype!
This should help somewhat if folks own the Bose NC700 and wondering if they should try the APM and go for the higher price. I say yes, at least try the APM.
The APM is a tougher choice to consider than the B&W px7 wireless headphone. That one is outstanding for the cost.
There are serious omissions for this “which will win“ thread by the way, I can name at least a handful of wireless headphones I found better than the Sony or Bose for the cost, the B&W one of them. Goes to show what brands get marketed the most in reviews and YouTube. Don't follow the hype!
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Those aren’t the only features...
AAC processing is usually just better on apple devices when compared to say many Android devices, that‘s also a benefit to Apple users where these headphones are concerned. This is a concern, because that’s really the only codec the headphones support.
Another note, there’s no ANC off option if you’re not using an Apple device, and you can change the way the crown works on Apple devices. You can use transparency or ANC, but you cannot use the off option.
Going even further, the Apple Ecosystem is not just 2 devices, it’s pretty much every Apple Device you own, that can switch the headset to them automatically. Of course that’s not perfect with some devices, but it works great with others. So, MacBook, iMac, iPad, iPhone, and hopefully the new Apple TV will have this functionality.
Another note, apparently, the positional audio has limited functionality apart from the Apple system.
Now as for Siri, I don’t believe you even have to push a button to use it with the APM.
Overall, there is a real benefit to using these within the Apple ecosystem, So you can argue the value is increased for that, but I suppose that would also decrease the value when you’re not using it in the ecosystem. Some have even argued, that these are a do not buy if you’re not in the Apple ecosystem and a buy if you have the cash in the Apple ecosystem.
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Sorry to spoil your party here but I have to cause it's common sense. Your ears will still sweat but this time it will be absorbed by mesh hence why they made it interchangeable cause it's gonna get stinky at some point. Aluminium has no place on headphones what so ever, it will ding, it will dent, it will scratch very quickly and then it looks like crap. I fail to see any innovation unless you count execution into innovaiton.
I have that f1.2... it’s worth it. Your point still stands, though. Photography is my baby, though. I’ll defend her honor. 🤣
LOL... I had the f1.2 back when I shot Canon (switched to Nikon in 2009, and then switched to Sony a few years ago). It was indeed a magical lens. And hey, that factor is worth something, right?
My equivalent "is this really worth it?" lens on Sony is the 55 f1.8. As you probably know, $1000 for a ~50mm f1.8 prime is STEEP. But I can't help it... I love that lens, and I'd buy it again in a heartbeat.
Yep... I feel the same about my 135/1.8 Zeiss Sonnar T (A-mount). Moved to mirrorless - took that with me. lol
Fantastic thread OP, I have been that obsessed with doing endless research on EarPods in recent weeks that I didn’t even consider the range of cans. Now I am almost in the market for my first set of cans since my teens in the early 90’s, I was wondering how well does the multipoint switching work in the above devices ?.
I am admittedly leaning towards Sony, as I have a Sony High Res Player, so having the ability to take advantage of the High Res codecs, would be a major bonus, but only if I don’t have to risk missing important calls on my iPhone 12 Pro whilst out on a walk, or on a long train journey once some normality returns. Also would be great to have some cans with decent battery once I can take flights again. I have only seen a brief video on the XM3 on multipoint (media on 1 device and calls on another)
Any experiences of the multipoint is greatly appreciated
Many thanks
I am admittedly leaning towards Sony, as I have a Sony High Res Player, so having the ability to take advantage of the High Res codecs, would be a major bonus, but only if I don’t have to risk missing important calls on my iPhone 12 Pro whilst out on a walk, or on a long train journey once some normality returns. Also would be great to have some cans with decent battery once I can take flights again. I have only seen a brief video on the XM3 on multipoint (media on 1 device and calls on another)
Any experiences of the multipoint is greatly appreciated
Many thanks
XM3s are not multipoint - XM4s are and it worked pretty well for me between my iPad and iPhone.
They are not true multipoint but there is a workaround that allows switching between 2 devices, which is the kind of dual connection that I need.
Done some more research and turns out it is a glitch which enables the workaround and states for android devices, it doesn’t state for iOS and even when you do get it running, the sound quality is lower, so will knock those off the shortlist. So in a sense you were correct that it isn’t compatible.
Well, shoot! That's why I got the XM4s (before getting the APMs) - multipoint is just so nice as I generally am going back and forth between my iPhone and iPad all day. It worked pretty well with the XM4s. And, as we all know, it works pretty well with the APMs too!
There’s a couple of ways to look at that, and I’m just playing devils advocate here, I’ve not got my APM yet to pass judgment on sound quality.
However, whatever price point the headphones (or any product for that matter) sells for has to take into account, as you say, everything in the box, heck, even the box itself.
So that’s the development of the headphones, the power supply, cables, case, software, freight charges, advertising and anything else. Every single component has a design, development and manufacturing cost.
So what’s better? Saving by not including a power brick, cable and supplying a very basic ‘case’, but using high quality materials in the construction of the hardware. Or, making everything out of plastic and other potentially cheaper components, because you have to account for the accessories.
Apple could have included a cable and a power brick. But look at the cost of those two things separately. Either the headphones would suffer by their inclusion, or the price would be even higher.
Even a few pennies per component part makes a huge difference when you’re shipping massive quantities of product. It all adds up. And that’s before we even get to profit margins.
I’m not really arguing in favour of one brand over another at this point, as I said, I can’t. But just looking at the other side of the coin.
I know that the Bose QC35s are not part of this conversation, but they’re similar to the Bose 700s. So here are some findings that I’ve noticed while playing with them side by side.
The APMs sound amazingly clear and distinct compared to the Boses. The sound separation between different elements is on a different level. It’s almost like playing a tape and then switching to the same track played on a CD. The bass sounds similar on both: it’s the same warmish tone without being too overwhelming, but, again, it’s a bit more clear on the APMs.
The ANC is similar on both. I would give a slight edge to the APMs, as they seem to remove a tiny bit more of lower frequencies. Also, a big difference between the two is that the QC35s have some noticeable hissing/white noise with their ANC on. It’s faded, of course, but with no music on, you can definitely hear it. The APMs don’t have any artificial sound with the ANC on.
Moreover, at the same volume, the APMs sound slightly louder than the QC35s. It might be attributed to the fact that they sound more distinct and clear.
The APMs sound amazingly clear and distinct compared to the Boses. The sound separation between different elements is on a different level. It’s almost like playing a tape and then switching to the same track played on a CD. The bass sounds similar on both: it’s the same warmish tone without being too overwhelming, but, again, it’s a bit more clear on the APMs.
The ANC is similar on both. I would give a slight edge to the APMs, as they seem to remove a tiny bit more of lower frequencies. Also, a big difference between the two is that the QC35s have some noticeable hissing/white noise with their ANC on. It’s faded, of course, but with no music on, you can definitely hear it. The APMs don’t have any artificial sound with the ANC on.
Moreover, at the same volume, the APMs sound slightly louder than the QC35s. It might be attributed to the fact that they sound more distinct and clear.
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I find that the XM4s with EQ (like bright) sound much sharper than the Airpods Max out of box. Can you guys with both headphones do me a favor and please tell me which headphones you prefer for the following song? Don't use accommodations on the APMs. I'm curious to see what you think. It sounds muddy with the APMs and sharp with the XM4s.
Got my AirPods Max a few days ago, but do not have the Sony headphones to test myself. I put them up against my now 7 to 8 year old Sennheiser HD518 headphones though (I know that nobody asked for this, but Sennheiser is a good benchmark for accurate, quality sound reproduction).
Yes the Sennheiser are open back and they do have a wire...
The range was similar, although on the higher frequency the Sennheisers were a little more clear (even with the EQ set in Apple Music, like for like, this was always present). I kind of expect that as the HD518's were highly regarded back when I bought them and they have continued to be a very good pair of headphones.
The sound stage is also better on the open back headphones, but not as much as I would have expected. Honestly, this could be just the fact that the high end of the APM's is a small bit behind the Sennheiser, so you're not hearing as much separation, but it is literally that close.
Overall, for wireless headphones, they're actually very good considering they're closed back and it's Apple's first real attempt at the midrange enthusiast market... I just wish that MacOS had a built in universal EQ.
I cannot say if they're worth $550 to the average person, but I will say, they likely do have some increased value to Apple people for sure.
Yes the Sennheiser are open back and they do have a wire...
The range was similar, although on the higher frequency the Sennheisers were a little more clear (even with the EQ set in Apple Music, like for like, this was always present). I kind of expect that as the HD518's were highly regarded back when I bought them and they have continued to be a very good pair of headphones.
The sound stage is also better on the open back headphones, but not as much as I would have expected. Honestly, this could be just the fact that the high end of the APM's is a small bit behind the Sennheiser, so you're not hearing as much separation, but it is literally that close.
Overall, for wireless headphones, they're actually very good considering they're closed back and it's Apple's first real attempt at the midrange enthusiast market... I just wish that MacOS had a built in universal EQ.
I cannot say if they're worth $550 to the average person, but I will say, they likely do have some increased value to Apple people for sure.
I really liked the way you wrote this. Very clear and balanced review.
Btw, I’m a huge fan of the Senn HD518, HD558, HD598 family. I have the 598s and use them at night for movies music on my HTPC when everyone is sleeping. They are like wearing clouds on my ears, and the soundstage is so big expansive. If they made a wireless version of these, I would never look at another headphone.
I realize they are openback and wired, so not a direct comparison, but I just think they are killer for the price. They also have probably my favourite sound profile...no bass boost, smooth and detailed, but not over etched or bright. Okay I’ll stop with my love affair with these underrated gems.
They’re great and Sennheiser still sells these to this day. As you noted, they are extremely comfortable. Honestly, if I end up not keeping these, I will likely pickup a pair of 600 series headphones, even if they’re not wireless.