All We Know About Maximizing CPU Related Performance

[glenandsonja]

For reasons having nothing to do with the GA-7PESH3 itself, I never purchased one and do not know personally anyone who did. I have no idea whether two DBED's would run in the GA-7PESH3. All of my QBEDs are either in my 4-CPU Supermicros or my 1-CPU Gigabyte GUP4 motherboards and they run fine in both of those. When you tried them on the X9DRD-iF, had you installed on that motherboard the latest bios?

Yes I installed the newest BIOS version (v3), and also tried swapping CPU's and memory to be sure I didn't have a bad component. Any advice on finding a good dual-CPU ECC M/B for these QBED's?

Or I may look at Haswell-EP, if I can find a couple of ES CPU's that will work on a dual-CPU ECC M/B

 

[Tutor]

Yes I installed the newest BIOS version (v3), and also tried swapping CPU's and memory to be sure I didn't have a bad component. Any advice on finding a good dual-CPU ECC M/B for these QBED's?

Or I may look at Haswell-EP, if I can find a couple of ES CPU's that will work on a dual-CPU ECC M/B

Frankly, Im surprised that they don't work on a Supermicro motherboard. I know that they'll work on an dual socket Asus 2011 motherboard, but since you prefaced your request using the word "good," I can't recommend that board because I had two of them that had crippling bios issues. They may work on an EVGA SR-X motherboard if you can still find one in good shape. Otherwise, I'd have to say get yourself a couple of new Gigabyte GUP4's for about $250 ea. and make the best of it. Those motherboards have four double wide PCIe slots, providing an excellent base for GPU computing, but I don't know what apps you're into.

 

[Tutor]

Moved to a more flexible configuration for a PCIe laden, OS agnostic system

Here's a pic of my latest Titan Z Hydro (in Tyan barebones server [ https://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=TS-B75F7V6 , but mine is the LGA1366 version with dual X5680s) config.

I'll be modding this Avanti refrigeration/freezer to be the heart of my water cooling system for the 6 Titan Z Hydros and my two CPUs:
http://www.provantage.com/avanti-vfr14ps~7AVNI031.htm . This Avanti can be set as low as 0 degrees fahrenheit ("F") or -17.78 Celsius ("C"). I'll be shooting for GPU idle temps of 34 degrees F (or 1.1 degrees C) and under full load of under 50 degrees F (or 10 degrees C). The temps of my CPUs will probably be 2-3 degrees (F) warmer. Right now, I'm considering having two triple 120mm fan-sized radiators [ https://www.swiftech.com/mcrx20-xp.aspx?variation=237 ] within the freezer and two quad 120mm fan-sized radiators [ https://www.swiftech.com/MCRx20-XP.aspx?variation=237 ] outside the freezer (one pre-freezer and one post-freezer), driven by 2xdual pumps [ https://www.swiftech.com/MCP35x2PUMP.aspx?variation=310 ] (one on each side of the reservoir [ https://www.swiftech.com/mcp35xreservoir.aspx ]). One or two low powered, ultra quiet de-humidifier(s) [ http://www.walmart.com/ip/10750086?...72040832&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=78765340232&veh=sem ] will maintain a dry atmosphere. I'll be using PrimoChill ICE water cooling fluid (it's electrically non-conductive) [ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000P8PQFG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ], in a water loop that will be parallel in some places, but serial in others. At those temps, I hope to be able to clock my six Titan Zs [expect delivery of the last one this week] to have a base speed of >1k MHz on each and every GPU chip and a boost speed of greater than 1.3K MHz for each and every GPU chip. PrimoChill's temperature in the same environment as water is about 2-3 degrees (F) warmer. So ultimately to achieve the above stated CPU/GPU temperatures, the setting of the freezer's temperature may have to be a bit lower than 32 degrees (F).

I've also installed the two 960GB Rev 350 drives [ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JYFB8QW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ] in x16 PCIe 2.0 slots, which I'll be running in raid 0, and for 4K+ video hoping for reads and writes above the 3000MB/s range. Note from the pic, below, that with my new rearrangement of the Titan Zs I can now use those two special EVGA SLI connectors (shown in the pic) when I have a need to run my two Samsung 4K displays [ http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IEZGWI2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ] at the highest possible frame rates; however, for regular 3d rendering I'll take those connectors off. I'll also be able to edit Ultra HD video on one or two Titan Zs, while the other 5 or 4 Titan Zs are 3d rendering, with some or al of my other 23 systems.

The Tyan's bios won't allow me to directly tweak CPU clock speeds; however, water cooling my CPUs [ http://www.swiftech.com/apogeelp.aspx ] should also increase their performance by allowing them to attain max turbo boost speeds sooner and for longer periods of time.

 

[DJenkins]

I'll be modding this Avanti refrigeration/freezer to be the heart of my water cooling system for the 6 Titan Z Hydros and my two CPUs:

Haha I can just picture all the tubes coming out of this fridge when you're done! I never spent much time on the overclocking forums but I'll bet there are some ambitious DIY projects over there. I do know there's someone who had the same X5679 CPUs I used to own who made custom water blocks for his Titans. I may have posted the link before, but go check his progress:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1306477/...-xeons-3000w-of-power-lianli-water-and-copper

 

[Tutor]

Haha I can just picture all the tubes coming out of this fridge when you're done! I never spent much time on the overclocking forums but I'll bet there are some ambitious DIY projects over there. I do know there's someone who had the same X5679 CPUs I used to own who made custom water blocks for his Titans. I may have posted the link before, but go check his progress:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1306477/...-xeons-3000w-of-power-lianli-water-and-copper

I don't believe that I have as much patience as he does.

For my build I now expect that there'll be one tube going in one side of the refrigerator unit and one tube coming out of the other side of it. There'll probably be two 16" tall radiators - each attached to an inner, side wall. The radiators will be connected by a serial loop. That way, from an outside frontal view, it'll look like a mini frig with one long coiled ears drooping down to the the Tyan, below (that'll help to increase head pressure), and the opposite coiled ear raised to receive flow from the reservoir atop the refrigerator/freezer (that'll help to also increase head pressure).

 

[Tutor]

Refurbished GTX Titans @ Newegg.

Newegg has 17 refurbish GTX Titans ( GIGABYTE GV-NTITAN-6GD-B GeForce GTX TITAN 6GB 384-Bit DDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Video Card ) for $650 each. (90 day warranty; return for refund until: January 31, 2015; Return for replacement until: January 31, 2015; Restocking Fee: None).

 

[Tutor]

How Much Ram Is Too Much on Pre-2013 Mac Pros Running The Latest OSes.

One of my cousins recently asked me whether he could run 64G of ram on a 2012 MacPro if he upgraded the processors in his 2012 Mac Pro to dual 5690s.

Here is the substance of my response:
I've read that some say that there's a 56G limit on a pre-2013 MacPro and others say that limit is 64G on a pre-2013 MacPro, but I'm not sure what the top end ram limit is for such MacPros. I don't know for sure about 64G of ram being the maximum recognized ram on a pre-2013 MacPro running the latest OSes. However, I do know for sure that with respect to a 2012 MacPro its not a processor based limitation or an operating system based limitation (at least with respect to Mavericks going forward) because I've seen Hackintoshes loaded with 72G of recognized and used ram running Mavericks, with CPUs ranging from 5580s, 5675s, 5650s and 5680s. So, if even 56G or 64G of ram is the limit on a pre-2013 MacPro (and I'm not saying that it is - I just don't know) it's strictly Mac Pro hardware based and/or might be related to a pre-Mavericks Mac OS; but it's not caused by whether the CPU chips used are in the 5500's or 5600's series or any particular chip in those series.

If any of you have reached that 64G threshold on a pre-2013 MacPro, what has been your experience and on what OS?

 

[h9826790]

If any of you have reached that 64G threshold on a pre-2013 MacPro, what has been your experience and on what OS?

I didn't own a dual processor 2012 Mac Pro, but only the single CPU 2009 version. However, AFAIK, the 56G limit is for single CPU model AND with the W36xx series CPU.

For the X5690, even a single CPU 2012 Mac Pro can hold 64G RAM with Mavericks or Yosemite. And the dual processor model should able to boot with 128G RAM on the latest OSX.

 

[Tutor]

I didn't own a dual processor 2012 Mac Pro, but only the single CPU 2009 version. However, AFAIK, the 56G limit is for single CPU model AND with the W36xx series CPU.

For the X5690, even a single CPU 2012 Mac Pro can hold 64G RAM with Mavericks or Yosemite. And the dual processor model should able to boot with 128G RAM on the latest OSX.

h9826790,
Thanks for pointing out those hardware and OS based distinctions. Good info for one with a pre-2013 MacPro or in the market for a used one to keep in mind.

 

[RoastingPig]

h9826790,
Thanks for pointing out those hardware and OS based distinctions. Good info for one with a pre-2013 MacPro or in the market for a used one to keep in mind.

One of my physics professor has 128gb ram in a 2010 mac pro dual 5675's

 

[Tutor]

One of my physics professor has 128gb ram in a 2010 mac pro dual 5675's

Thanks RoastingPig,

With your information, that of h9826790, and mine, it appears safe to assume that a dual processor 2009-2012 MacPro with dual 55xx or 56xx processors can use up to 128G of ram, particularly if the user is running Mavericks or later.

Does anyone have any information regarding the max, useable memory limits applicable to the 2006-2007 and 2008 MacPros? I know that my 2007 MacPros use up to 32G of ram (that's the most that I could find at the time, which was a few years ago - even prior to Mavericks) and thus I believe that the same would apply to 2006 and 2008 MacPros. But does anyone have/know of such a system that has and uses more than 32G of ram. Moreover, does anyone have any examples of 2006-2012 MacPros running a pre-Mavericks Mac OS that (1) in the case of the 2006-2008 Mac Pros, have and use more than 32G of ram. (2) in the case of the 2009-2012 Mac Pros, have and use more than 64 gigs of ram for dual processor systems or (3) in the case of a 2009-2012 single processor system, uses more than 56G of ram and, if so, whether the single processor system uses 55xx or 56xx Xeons, rather than the W36xx Xeons?

 

[Gav Mack]

Thanks RoastingPig,

With your information, that of h9826790, and mine, it appears safe to assume that a dual processor 2009-2012 MacPro with dual 55xx or 56xx processors can use up to 128G of ram, particularly if the user is running Mavericks or later.

Does anyone have any information regarding the max, useable memory limits applicable to the 2006-2007 and 2008 MacPros? I know that my 2007 MacPros use up to 32G of ram (that's the most that I could find at the time, which was a few years ago - even prior to Mavericks) and thus I believe that the same would apply to 2006 and 2008 MacPros. But does anyone have/know of such a system that has and uses more than 32G of ram. Moreover, does anyone have any examples of 2006-2012 MacPros running a pre-Mavericks Mac OS that (1) in the case of the 2006-2008 Mac Pros, have and use more than 32G of ram. (2) in the case of the 2009-2012 Mac Pros, have and use more than 64 gigs of ram for dual processor systems or (3) in the case of a 2009-2012 single processor system, uses more than 56G of ram and, if so, whether the single processor system uses 55xx or 56xx Xeons, rather than the W36xx Xeons?

Afaik the 3,1 maximum, even dual socket is 32gb. I have not seen any 8gb fb-dimm ddr2 modules, not even in the more common 667 speeds used in pc servers and workstations so I must assume that's the most the 3,1 can go so likely the Intel chipset too with just 8 slots.

The only ones I know of that can smash that barrier limit are the 4-5,1's with a single X5xxx for 64 and dual for 128 as you've stated.

Intel Xeon list for the earlier models:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#Core-based_Xeons

I'm pretty sure that due to the architecture the Mac Pro has with its particular configuration of the chipset only Nehalem based chipsets onwards can exceed that 32Gb barrier so it's only 4,1 onwards that can.

 

[bx5a]

Afaik the 3,1 maximum, even dual socket is 32gb. I have not seen any 8gb fb-dimm ddr2 modules, not even in the more common 667 speeds used in pc servers and workstations so I must assume that's the most the 3,1 can go so likely the Intel chipset too with just 8 slots.

The only ones I know of that can smash that barrier limit are the 4-5,1's with a single X5xxx for 64 and dual for 128 as you've stated.

Intel Xeon list for the earlier models:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#Core-based_Xeons

I'm pretty sure that due to the architecture the Mac Pro has with its particular configuration of the chipset only Nehalem based chipsets onwards can exceed that 32Gb barrier so it's only 4,1 onwards that can.

Actually, the 3,1 Mac Pro can take 64Gb RAM, the only problem is that the 8Gb FB-DIMM modules are prohibitively expensive and come in 667 Mhz only. See here:

http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=426&ParentCat=314

I remember a discussion about this possibility and I think there was a screenshot of someone running 64Gb in a 3,1 but again, given the price, I think this is just an interesting possibility for us Mac Pro enthusiasts.

 

[Tutor]

Afaik the 3,1 maximum, even dual socket is 32gb. I have not seen any 8gb fb-dimm ddr2 modules, not even in the more common 667 speeds used in pc servers and workstations so I must assume that's the most the 3,1 can go so likely the Intel chipset too with just 8 slots.

The only ones I know of that can smash that barrier limit are the 4-5,1's with a single X5xxx for 64 and dual for 128 as you've stated.

Intel Xeon list for the earlier models:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#Core-based_Xeons

I'm pretty sure that due to the architecture the Mac Pro has with its particular configuration of the chipset only Nehalem based chipsets onwards can exceed that 32Gb barrier so it's only 4,1 onwards that can.

Thanks Gav,
Makes perfect sense.

 

[Gav Mack]

Actually, the 3,1 Mac Pro can take 64Gb RAM, the only problem is that the 8Gb FB-DIMM modules are prohibitively expensive and come in 667 Mhz only. See here:

http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=426&ParentCat=314

I remember a discussion about this possibility and I think there was a screenshot of someone running 64Gb in a 3,1 but again, given the price, I think this is just an interesting possibility for us Mac Pro enthusiasts.

Even at 667 I would imagine they would get very hot though. I had a maxed out 3,1 at 800 and they were always cooking, even after re-doing the thermals. If the memory silicon design was the same that will be a lot more heat to dissipate hence why probably ruled out offering 8gb modules at 800mhz. Plus with nehalem round the corner..

Thing is the Core design which made Apple switch was inferior in some respects to the previous arc welder Netburst architechture as it was based on mobile chips and DDR2. Nehalem was a big jump forward for the server class with its design making it a true multicore and not a patchwork and not only with DDR3 which made the previous class feel ancient. Though I so wish they had made a Sandy Bridge Mac Pro as that has been the biggest jump of all It has been incremental jumps since and perhaps will till broadwell or skylake.

It would have meant a complete redesign of the riser cards or maybe the whole logic board layout with the memory controller on the CPU and not on the northbridge and obviously why Apple never bothered the bar stewards ultimately deserting the pro single box modular workstation market.

No wonder I dream of Kickstarter, open firmware with a boot loader like the Quo boards and a Haswell, Broadwell or even Skylake EP two part board designed to fit in a certain silver cheesey box chassis with cirrus audio, Texas FireWire and a PCIe slot sacrificed for a blanking plate for the tb2 ports! We can but dream as I do not think anyone has worked out the pin outs for the existing riser card system to see if it can be adapted..

 

[lowendlinux]

Higher density DDR2 FBDIMMS didn't get as hot as the lower density.

 

[Tutor]

Today's been a very good day because my cousins have taught me a lot.

Actually, the 3,1 Mac Pro can take 64Gb RAM, the only problem is that the 8Gb FB-DIMM modules are prohibitively expensive and come in 667 Mhz only. See here:

http://www.maxupgrades.com/istore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=426&ParentCat=314

I remember a discussion about this possibility and I think there was a screenshot of someone running 64Gb in a 3,1 but again, given the price, I think this is just an interesting possibility for us Mac Pro enthusiasts.

Thanks bx5a for putting us on the right path. Here's EveryMac's memory listing: http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_capability/actual-maximum-ram-capacity-of-macs.html . It appears that the answers to a lot of these questions about max memory just depends, to some extent, on memory manufacturer options and how deep are your pockets.

 

[Gav Mack]

Higher density DDR2 FBDIMMS didn't get as hot as the lower density.

If they do not get as hot with the same memory layout on the silicon they must be a die shrink else that defies the laws of thermodynamics. But nevertheless DDR2 was ultimately in its death throes, could clock no higher and with the high cost of those modules you'd be daft not to spend that exorbitant cost on a 4,1 instead.

I have 24gb of my old 800 MHz ram on eBay, a pair of 4's almost the cost of 24gb of pulled server registered ddr3 1333 and I could never recommend a fellow cheesegrater fan on here to buy them all as a 2009 plus 16gb modules is a far more sensible, pragmatic, mathematical and wise option maxing out. Though I will get my salesman hat on if you only want to go from 8 to 16gb

 

[NOTNlCE]

The price even for 4GB FB-DIMMs though is exorbitant. When I owned my 3,1 and even with the 1,1 I still own, the only economical option on the RAM is 16GB in an 8x2GB configuration, regardless of how much memory the machine will actually accept... Especially as GavMack has stated, you can get MORE memory for a NEWER machine for LESS.

That being said, if 16GB is enough for you, it can be picked up on Ebay for $40-50... Considerably LESS than 16GB of any newer RAM. Odd, huh?

 

[philliplakis]

hey tutor

how exactly did you fit that dual slot card in slot 4??

i cut the piece that holds the pcie bracket but still no luck.. can u help?

 

[Tutor]

Mr. Dremel Tool and I are the best of friends.

hey tutor

how exactly did you fit that dual slot card in slot 4??

i cut the piece that holds the pcie bracket but still no luck.. can u help?

1) One key is to have your storage needs met by using large capacity drives in HD Slot 1 (just above the front fan enclosure) and (if you need an optical drive, to adopt an external optical drive so that you can) use all of the optical drive bay for your other drive storage needs (along with a PSU that fits where the optical drive was previously stored. I use FPS BoosterX5s to help power my 24 systems. Luckily I had purchased about 19 of them, in addition to the five that I had already owned, at a discount before those PSUs started disappearing from retail stock. That gave me the freedom to remove HD Slots 2-4, without feeling at a loss for storage.

2) Regarding the PCIe Bracket, I just used needle-nosed pliers to bend that lip at the end of that bracket (closest to and just underneath the MacPro's PSU) from it's curved position to a straight position (to act as extended support for the video card). Then, I just inserted the video card in PCIe Slot 4. I've done this mod to all three of my 2007 MacPro without any issues. Please describe in a little more detail why you're having issues seating the video card properly, i.e., what appears to be the specific obstacle preventing correct card insertion.

3) I cut out a small section from that inner door frame to pass the cables from the PSU in the optical bay to the GPUs in the PCIe bay. I cut a one inch square hole in the rear grill to pass out the cable used to power the PSU.

In less than one hour, I had modded all three of my MacPro 2007 systems. Of course the planning for how I'd do it took me a couple of hours. The more time (and depth) one spends planning and researching how to do something, the shorter the time it takes to execute the plan. The part of the mode that took me the longest was unscrewing and rescrewing those three inner door frames to cut that section out to pass the cables.

P.S. I do remember now having to crimp and bend in one case, just bend in another case and cut out in yet another case the red area because it interfered with the second of the two video outs. A lot of this has to do with the specific spacing/placement of your video out connectors and varies with different video cards. Best Practice - if bending it slightly doesn't work, just cut it where the green marks are and been it flat (like a "V" when viewed from above) or lastly, just cut it out completely. You must control and contain (I made a duct tape bubble and only worked at this from the rear of the case in each instance), and remove (I used an industrial vac) any metal filings completely.

 

[philliplakis]

cut out in yet another case the red area

thanks for this... cut it out and it fit... your the man


have you ever ran 3x 690's in them? can it recognise the 6 gpu's?

 

[Tutor]

eGPU Update - Titan Z controlled by Mac Portable

Checkout - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPOB9qmPjaE .

 

[NOTNlCE]

Checkout - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPOB9qmPjaE .

That's remarkable. Could you imagine the market if it were officially supported and marketed properly? The nerd in me sees a TB GPU enclosure on every college kid's desk so they can properly game on their new MacBook....

EDIT:

Plenty of threads outlining experience with it. Could you imagine these over Broadwell Thunderbolt 3 at a theoretical 40Gbps... That's almost a desktop PCIe connection, and if enclosures can become sophisticated enough to incorporate a PSU with reasonable wattage and a 12V rail in the same compact enclosure...

 

[Tutor]

No room for soda pops here - Tyan/Titan-Z Mod Update 1

Here're some pics of the guts of Mr. Freeze(r). There are two uninstalled views (side and front). The top unit is an Alphacool NexXxoS Monstra Dual 120 mm Radiator. It'll be used as the first stage chiller. The bottom unit consists of 4 ganged together Aquacomputer Airplex Modularity System 240 Radiators - the main (or final) chillers. In the third pic (the installed view) - the MOnstra pre-chiller is on the top shelf of Mr. Freeze(r) and is hiding behind the four System 240 Radiators. My two pre-chillers are pics 4 & 5 (Watercool MO-RA3 Pro 9x120mm/4x180mm Extreme Radiators). I intend to finish this mod project next week when the rest of the parts arrive.