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MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
Dropbox still works for me so I imagine it was a regionalised problem.

However I too also have a skydrive account.

I primarily use Dropbox as I have 70gb worth of space (freebie space from phones etc..) currently whereas skydrive comes with only 7gb now with paid options for more.

When/Should Dropbox reduce my space or require payment I will move to sky drive fully.
 

corrado7

macrumors regular
Mar 26, 2008
172
114
Atlanta
I have a Synology NAS with 3TB had in it. I wanted to switch from Dropbox and not have my sensitive files hosted with a 3rd party.
 

mripadmini

Cancelled
Aug 24, 2013
229
31
packing up my documents ect on google drive and moving it to copy. 15gb free to start is the most ive ever seen free from a online cloud service. the features are a lot more than most of the ones ive tryed
 

Lloydbm41

Suspended
Oct 17, 2013
4,019
1,456
Central California
You've been able to do that on skydrive for ages

Didn't know. I have only used Skydrive for some storage of pics. I will look into it.

----------

packing up my documents ect on google drive and moving it to copy. 15gb free to start is the most ive ever seen free from a online cloud service. the features are a lot more than most of the ones ive tryed

I thought Google gave out 15gb now? Google tends to give out a lot of free space though when using and purchasing their stuff. I currently have 125gb of free space on Google Drive. Buy a Chrome book, they give you 100gb of space for 2 years.
 

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,952
17,447
For me, and the tl;dr of it: FreeNAS on a 2TB RAID1 Mini-ITX box I built.

For the background: I posted this sometime last year in the PRSI section of the forum, and to be honest, it should freak out everyone who uses any cloud-based online storage site. The jist of it is that if there is any investigation that you may be involved in that involves your data, they do not have to get a warrant to search you or your home to seize that data, because you've shared that data with another entity. All they would have to do is subpoena that entity to provide that data, and boom: they have your data without you even having a say.

Here's the article in question.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1649516/

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechcon...al-trail-does-the-fourth-amendment-protect-us

Your Digital Trail: Does The Fourth Amendment Protect Us?

by Daniel Zwerdling
October 02, 2013 1:00 PM

This is the third story in our four-part series examining your digital trail and who potentially has access to it. It was co-reported by G.W. Schulz from the Center for Investigative Reporting. Yesterday, we examined how data-tracking companies are monitoring your online behavior. Today we look at your Fourth Amendment rights.

Science-fiction writers have fantasized for years about the government monitoring everything we do. For example, there's a classic scene in the 2002 movie The Bourne Identity, which portrays young government agents glued to computer monitors in a crowded room. In seconds, they are able to track almost everywhere Jason Bourne, the main character, has been and where he's going — his flights, train trips and hotels.

One agent gets a photo of Bourne talking to a woman in an alley from a surveillance camera hundreds of miles away. Almost instantly, they identify her, apparently using facial recognition software, and pull up the digital records of her life — including her family biography and her utility bills from three countries.

The woman is just a bystander, but the movie suggests that the minutiae of someone's life can make anyone look guilty.

"I don't like her," the unit chief mutters. "I want to go deep. I want to know every place she's slept in the last six years."

Back in the real world, could government agents really sit in a room and gather that information in 60 seconds or less? "No," says Kevin Bankston, senior attorney with the nonpartisan Center for Democracy and Technology. But "that is the world we're moving toward."

He says one reason is the digital revolution itself. For instance, Facebook uses software now that identifies people from photos. Stores are reportedly using facial recognition programs, so the staff can learn the names of customers almost the moment they stroll through the door.

Bankston says there's another reason the government is beginning to obtain digital records faster and faster — if not yet instantly as it does in movies: The laws that regulate the government were written back in the analog age, so the government often doesn't have many legal restraints. America's founders were not thinking about computers when they wrote the Bill of Rights.

Rights Under The Fourth Amendment

The Fourth Amendment of the Bill Rights, ratified in 1791, has traditionally been Americans' "principal constitutional protection against government spying," says David Cole, a lawyer who teaches constitutional law and national security at Georgetown University. As the amendment states, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated."

But Cole and other legal analysts say the world of computers has weakened the Fourth Amendment. "In the modern digital age," he says, "it means very, very little."

Here's why: Let's say the police or FBI wanted to gather intimate details about your life back in the old days — meaning, before computers came along. Whom are you meeting? What are you reading? What are you writing in your diary? What kinds of products have you been buying? Where are you going to travel and where will you stay?

One of the best ways to get that information would have been to search your home, bug it and wiretap your phone. Based on the Fourth Amendment, that meant the police would have needed a search warrant. And to obtain a warrant, law enforcement officers must convince a judge that they have probable cause that the place they want to search, or the person they want to bug, is likely to reveal evidence of a crime.

But since the 1960s and 1970s, the Supreme Court and other courts have issued a series of rulings declaring that the government does not need a search warrant to obtain your personal documents if you have already shared them with somebody else. For instance, since you allow your bank and credit card company to know what you buy, and since you let your phone company know whom you call, you can't claim that information is private. It's the legal version of the lesson you learned when you were 12 years old: If you don't want everyone else to read your diary, then don't show it to anybody.

In the wake of those court decisions, the digital revolution came along. And many of the most intimate details of your life that you used to protect at home morphed into digital documents — which are stored on someone else's computers.

"When I send an email, I've shared it with the Internet provider," Cole says. "When I search the Web, I've shared it with the Web company. When I walk around with my cellphone, I'm sharing with the cellphone company my whereabouts. All of that information has lost its constitutional protection, and the government can get it without having to make any showing that you're engaged in illegal activity or suspicious activity."

So in this digital age, police often do not need to show probable cause of a crime when they want to find out details about your life that they used to find in your home. Instead, they can get your private files from corporations that store your records on their computers.

And instead of a search warrant, the police might just need a subpoena — which is "trivially easy to issue," says Bankston of the Center for Democracy and Technology. Law enforcement doesn't need a judge's approval to obtain subpoenas — prosecutors can sign them on their own, as can authorized employees at federal and state agencies. And law enforcement agents don't need evidence that there's likely a crime. They need only to be able to show that the records they want are relevant to an investigation.

The Ease Of The Subpoena

Cory Borgeson, president of the Golden Valley Electric Co. in Fairbanks, Alaska, told NPR he is stunned at how easily the government can obtain personal information with subpoenas. For instance, agents at the Drug Enforcement Administration wondered if some of Golden Valley's customers might be making or growing drugs in their homes. Drug dealers sometimes use more electricity than normal, and their power consumption records can potentially be a clue. So the DEA served a subpoena on the utility, ordering it to turn over detailed digital records on its customers' electricity use, bank and credit card accounts, and other information. Borgeson says the standard for getting a subpoena is so low that it's essentially "one agent turning to [his or her colleague] and saying, 'Would you please sign this administrative subpoena for me so I can get information?' "

Golden Valley tried unsuccessfully to block the subpoena in court by arguing that the government needed a search warrant. "We think at Golden Valley that what we sell to our members, and that's electric kilowatt hours, is really private," says Borgeson. He says the digital age has made the customers' records far more extensive and revealing than they were in the days of paper bills and file folders. For instance, it's so inexpensive to store digital files that the company keeps records for years longer than it used to. And Borgeson says those records can reveal personal information that has nothing to do with a crime, from how many people live in your house to whether you run a business that might be legal, but which grumpy neighbors might protest if they found out about it.

"Some people might think that ... it's not terribly sexy that we know how many kilowatt hours you use in a day or a month or a year," Borgeson says. "But it's kind of like looking at you through an open window and seeing what you do in your home."

Access To Your Tweets

Meanwhile, a judge in New York City issued a ruling last year that could have huge implications for anything you store online in the cloud. The case involved one of the protesters arrested at an Occupy Wall Street demonstration. When the New York district attorney subpoenaed all the tweets he had written over 3 1/2 months, the protester and his lawyer tried to block it. But the judge said they couldn't, because even though the protester wrote those tweets, he "has no proprietary interests" in them — in other words, he didn't own the tweets; Twitter Inc. did.

"And that is really a crucial, crucial issue in this age of cloud computing," says Martin Stolar, the protester's criminal defense and civil liberties lawyer.

"Because people now use the cloud to store all kinds of private, personal information — where they travel, where they go, where they go to church, whom they consult with their doctor, what their medical conditions are, what personal private conversations they've had. If they are stored in the cloud, then the person who stored them in the cloud loses the right to object when the government seeks them."

Incidentally, if you think your tweets or other digital messages are really gone when you click "delete," think again. Twitter and other digital companies keep them in computer archives for months or years.

The New York ruling represents just one judge's decision, and Stolar is appealing it. But there's a battle over these issues across the country. For instance, some courts have ruled that police can get emails and cellphone logs with just a subpoena, while other courts have said that law enforcement needs probable cause of a crime and a search warrant. Stolar says if the ruling on the Twitter case stands, it could make it even easier for the government to get a detailed portrait of your personal life — with just a subpoena.

I want access to my data, but I value my rights just as much as my data.

BL.
 

Lloydbm41

Suspended
Oct 17, 2013
4,019
1,456
Central California
For me, and the tl;dr of it: FreeNAS on a 2TB RAID1 Mini-ITX box I built.

For the background: I posted this sometime last year in the PRSI section of the forum, and to be honest, it should freak out everyone who uses any cloud-based online storage site. The jist of it is that if there is any investigation that you may be involved in that involves your data, they do not have to get a warrant to search you or your home to seize that data, because you've shared that data with another entity. All they would have to do is subpoena that entity to provide that data, and boom: they have your data without you even having a say.



I want access to my data, but I value my rights just as much as my data.

BL.
Sorry, but this is simply not true for US citizens. Foreign nationals, yes, but not US citizens, UNLESS the FBI or police have probable cause to believe that a person has committed a felony. Without probable cause, any evidence seized is in admissible in court. In order for the FBI to even start an investigation on a US citizen takes quite a bit of paperwork.
BTW, legally the NSA, CIA, etc should not be invading any US persons privacy, as long as the person or their property remain on US soil. They do not have a legal mandate otherwise, and any evidence found is again, not admissible in court.

Of course, the only people that really worry about their storage of data being of interest to the federal government, are usually the ones that have illegal data stored anyway. If the government wants to see my funny gifs, icons and such, more power to them. I don't care.
 

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,952
17,447
Sorry, but this is simply not true for US citizens. Foreign nationals, yes, but not US citizens, UNLESS the FBI or police have probable cause to believe that a person has committed a felony. Without probable cause, any evidence seized is in admissible in court. In order for the FBI to even start an investigation on a US citizen takes quite a bit of paperwork.
BTW, legally the NSA, CIA, etc should not be invading any US persons privacy, as long as the person or their property remain on US soil. They do not have a legal mandate otherwise, and any evidence found is again, not admissible in court.

Yes, it does take a bit of paperwork. But the key point you are missing here is what paperwork that would need to be filed. If they wanted to go after someone's data that they have stored in their home or residence, they would need to get a warrant (per the 4th Amendment). Again, from the article:

One of the best ways to get that information would have been to search your home, bug it and wiretap your phone. Based on the Fourth Amendment, that meant the police would have needed a search warrant. And to obtain a warrant, law enforcement officers must convince a judge that they have probable cause that the place they want to search, or the person they want to bug, is likely to reveal evidence of a crime.

But since the 1960s and 1970s, the Supreme Court and other courts have issued a series of rulings declaring that the government does not need a search warrant to obtain your personal documents if you have already shared them with somebody else. For instance, since you allow your bank and credit card company to know what you buy, and since you let your phone company know whom you call, you can't claim that information is private. It's the legal version of the lesson you learned when you were 12 years old: If you don't want everyone else to read your diary, then don't show it to anybody.

Bold for emphasis. Now.. think about how may tweets you've shared with Twitter. How many photos you've posted to Facebook. How many clips you've uploaded on youtube. You have shared that information with those third parties (Twitter, Facebook, Youtube). They don't need probable cause or a warrant to search there, because they aren't a defending party to the investigation. Again, from the article:

And law enforcement agents don't need evidence that there's likely a crime. They need only to be able to show that the records they want are relevant to an investigation.

They subpoena the 3rd party for the evidence relevant to the investigation, and they then possess your data. They didn't go directly to you to get it, which would require probable cause; they went through a 3rd party to get it, bypassing the need for a warrant, and the 4th Amendment altogether.

If the government wants to see my funny gifs, icons and such, more power to them. I don't care.

You should care. Considering how much data people store in the cloud, you should care a great amount, as it could be used as evidence without your consent or knowledge.

BL.
 

Lloydbm41

Suspended
Oct 17, 2013
4,019
1,456
Central California
Yes, it does take a bit of paperwork. But the key point you are missing here is what paperwork that would need to be filed. If they wanted to go after someone's data that they have stored in their home or residence, they would need to get a warrant (per the 4th Amendment). Again, from the article:
This does not negate the fact that in order to start an investigation of a US citizen, you MUST have probable cause that the person has committed a crime. Without probable cause, no judge will sign a warrant (regardless of what the warrant is for). There are 2 steps here, and you are skipping step one.


Bold for emphasis. Now.. think about how may tweets you've shared with Twitter. How many photos you've posted to Facebook. How many clips you've uploaded on youtube. You have shared that information with those third parties (Twitter, Facebook, Youtube). They don't need probable cause or a warrant to search there, because they aren't a defending party to the investigation. Again, from the article:
Information posted to public websites are not protected under the 4th amendment, because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy when you knowlingly post on to Facebook, Twitter, or even this forum. Now, personal information stored on a Google server that requires a password to unlock 'supposedly' falls under the same rules as medical records and financial records, because it is not accessible by the public. Is the government currently following this guideline? I don't know and I believe digital privacy is heading to the supreme court via companies like Google, Apple, Cisco, and so on.
I leave it to the court justices to decide what protections we have.

They subpoena the 3rd party for the evidence relevant to the investigation, and they then possess your data. They didn't go directly to you to get it, which would require probable cause; they went through a 3rd party to get it, bypassing the need for a warrant, and the 4th Amendment altogether.
Again, you are skipping the step that requires the federal government to have probable cause to begin an investigation on a US citizen. The FBI doesn't have the manpower to simply do random searches in the hope of finding strands of data that you may have on a server. But again, this is a debate to be held by the courts.


You should care. Considering how much data people store in the cloud, you should care a great amount, as it could be used as evidence without your consent or knowledge.
I don't care, because I don't have anything of personal value stored in the cloud and all of my medical, psychological, financial, etc... are already owned by the US government. I'm what the British call a 'pensioner'. :p
But I do know where you are coming from and will back any entity that is for protecting our digital freedoms.
 

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,952
17,447
This does not negate the fact that in order to start an investigation of a US citizen, you MUST have probable cause that the person has committed a crime. Without probable cause, no judge will sign a warrant (regardless of what the warrant is for). There are 2 steps here, and you are skipping step one.

Yes, there has to be probable cause for investigating a person, yes, but you'd need it doubly so for obtaining a warrant to seize any info pertaining to that person from their home or place of residence, or their person.

Not so when a 3rd party is involved. Since they are indirectly involved, the information they have is deemed relevant to the investigation, so all that would be needed to obtain that data is a subpoena; no warrant required. That is the problem here.

I don't care, because I don't have anything of personal value stored in the cloud and all of my medical, psychological, financial, etc... are already owned by the US government. I'm what the British call a 'pensioner'. :p
But I do know where you are coming from and will back any entity that is for protecting our digital freedoms.

Fair enough. though, I don't think the 4th Amendment would apply to you, as you mentioned, which would make things even worse, because i don't know if British law could be applied in the US. Diplomatic issues would abound there.

BL.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
I think it was Elvis behind the Grassy Knoll and to keep the secret they (FBI & US Government) staged his death so he could return to his own planet.........




Sure it's nonsense, but at least my conspiracy theory is more fun...

----------

For the background: I posted this sometime last year in the PRSI section of the
I want access to my data, but I value my rights just as much as my data.

BL.

Got a lot of real nasty ass porn on that 2TB Nas drive so...? ;) /s
 

Sylon

macrumors 68020
Feb 26, 2012
2,032
80
Michigan/Ohio, USA
Is Dropbox still down for you, OP? Their outage was their own fault, a botched server update that they have since resolved. It should be back up, might want to make sure Dropbox is updated to the latest version. Being that it's on the Mac, quit Dropbox out completely and restart it. It might help, might not. Doesn't hurt to try.

It's working on my end, I didn't even know it was out until I saw the article on Engadget.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,081
19,081
US
I think it was Elvis behind the Grassy Knoll and to keep the secret they (FBI & US Government) staged his death so he could return to his own planet.........




Sure it's nonsense, but at least my conspiracy theory is more fun...
This almost made me spit out my coffee! That was pretty funny MRU!
I agree I like your conspiracy theory better. :)
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
This almost made me spit out my coffee! That was pretty funny MRU!
I agree I like your conspiracy theory better. :)

lol. Thanks Jamezr :D

I always get a giggle when privacy and government security worries are all thrown out in the ether like they have been here. Seriously 'if you are that important' and 'what your doing so sensitive to your own and national security' then chances are the government has your cards marked regardless of whether your storing personal data in the cloud or anywhere else.

I really don't think 99.95% of people are 'that important' in the scheme of things that ANY government would care that you've uploaded your beach holiday photos to google +, skydive or dropbox.

If the self privacy concern is that much of an issue, don't use those services, live in a bubble and go around with tin foil on your head........ The government like most other folks - still won't care .....

None of us - including myself - are that special.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,081
19,081
US
lol. Thanks Jamezr :D

I always get a giggle when privacy and government security worries are all thrown out in the ether like they have been here. Seriously 'if you are that important' and 'what your doing so sensitive to your own and national security' then chances are the government has your cards marked regardless of whether your storing personal data in the cloud or anywhere else.

I really don't think 99.95% of people are 'that important' in the scheme of things that ANY government would care that you've uploaded your beach holiday photos to google +, skydive or dropbox.

If the self privacy concern is that much of an issue, don't use those services, live in a bubble and go around with tin foil on your head........ The government like most other folks - still won't care .....

None of us - including myself - are that special.
See now MRU......your are going to be accused of making too much sense! :)

I agree with you on all of your points. The people that have things too hide already know not to use cloud services to begin with. the people that have security clearances are INFORMED and trained not to use those cloud services only to use secure ones provided to them.
 

tayker

macrumors newbie
Oct 10, 2009
8
0
Popular cloud storage options:

SpiderOak
Box.com
SkyDrive
Google Drive
Dropbox
SafeSync
 

spinedoc77

macrumors G4
Jun 11, 2009
11,488
5,413
Did you mean Google Drive or SkyDrive? If you meant SkyDrive, I didn't know that it could do the same thing as Google Docs in Google Drive? Or did you mean Office 365?

The online office suite. It's nice, works right in a browser and is extremely seamless.
 

superwoman

macrumors regular
Apr 25, 2005
194
0
Monterey,CA
I use Bittorrent Sync to sync selected folders across all my laptops and devices and an RPi-operated NAS. It's as easy to use as Dropbox, and much more multi-platform. Then the RPi will perform weekly incremental backup of those folders to Amazon S3 using duplicity.

Since BTSync is peer-to-peer, nothing readable is in the cloud. Duplicity backups are encrypted with a private key too. So privacy is not an issue (I think).

I still use Dropbox, but only for non-critical ephemeral stuff like stuff I download from the Internet. Certainly not for my personal stuff.
 

Jibbajabba

macrumors 65816
Aug 13, 2011
1,024
5
i think he might have been half joking….
but TBH….that was my first thought to after reading that you get 15GB to start. Then 5GB free for each referral. Then seeing as you have well over a TB….that is a TON of referrals to get to over a TB from just 5GB increments. So no need to be snarky about it is was a fair remark.

1.1TB = 1126GB - 15GB standard = 222 referrals ... that IS a lot ...

----------

Stop downloading kiddie porn and you don't have to worry about the government searching thru your cloud storage. Problem solved.

So true ... if you worried about someone reading your stuff, don't put it online... I swear the same people complaining about privacy have their whole CV / Resume on LinkedIn and personal information on Facebook.

If you want to be save - move into a bunker or something .. or even worse, stop using social websites and stop sharing your details and go out to meet people in person - funny concept isn't it :D
 

jrswizzle

macrumors 603
Aug 23, 2012
6,107
129
McKinney, TX
I don't pay for cloud storage (outside of iCloud). This is what I've got for free:

-Box = 50GB
-Copy = 20GB
-Drive = 15GB
-Skydrive = 7GB
-DropBox = 6GB

Right now, I only use DropBox, but since my 6 GB is almost used up I'm thinking about switching to something different. Or perhaps splitting up what I save on each service. For instance, Copy could be used for photos because I have more storage, whereas DropBox can be used for documents.
 
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TacticalDesire

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2012
2,286
23
Michigan
I don't pay for cloud storage (outside of iCloud). This is what I've got for free:

-Box = 50GB
-Copy = 20GB
-Drive = 15GB
-Skydrive = 7GB
-DropBox = 6GB

Right now, I only use DropBox, but since my 6 GB is almost used up I'm thinking about switching to something different. Or perhaps splitting up what I save on each service. For instance, Copy could be used for photos because I have more storage, whereas DropBox can be used for documents.
If you use MS office I would keep documents with skydrive.
 
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