Am I being scammed by the guy who bought my Macbook pro?

[abaganov2]

Why is the majority of people in here assuming it is the buyer who is the bad one here accusing the buyer of trying to scam the seller? The OP is not a regular here, they only joined to make this thread and will most probably never be seen again and yet nearly everyone has accepted the OP at their word. How do you lot know the OP is not the bad person here. Just because they made the post and said what they said does not mean it's true.

If what happened to the buyer happened to any one of you, you would be screaming hell and high water that you've been scammed and would demand your money back and that's a fact but yet here you are defending the OP telling them they are possibly being scammed and to ignore the buyer. How would you feel is this was done to you. You buy an item, check it out in the sellers presence, pay for it, take it home and it fails within 15 mins, your not happy and want your money back, the seller tells it was working when you bought it, all sales are final so tough luck your not getting your money back and then the seller ignores you. I know exactly what each and everyone one of you would do in that situation, you would contact the police and tell them you have been scammed and then give them the sellers name and contact number.

Not a single one of you would accept the item broke within 15mins of you buying it and say 'oh well, it's broke, nothing I can do about it now, i'v now lost lots of money, such is life'. Get real!!! so please stop with this 'oh, the OP is right, don't give the money back, ignore the buyer'. Utter rubbish and you know it.

Maybe because if I was trying to scam the buyer I would simply block him and move on? Only reason I opened this thread and was looking for suggestions on what to do is for moral reasons. I did not promise the buyer any warranty or something of that sort so legally I am under no obligation to return his money once the the sale is over. He had all the time in the world to examine the laptop when we met, if he wanted he could have also took it to some a laptop service shop and ask them to check the laptop from the inside out and search for any issues. I was not hiding anything and this was a perfectly working laptop. Also I am not hardware expert, but if there was anything wrong with the machine wouldn't he notice it when we met? he played with the machine for 20 minutes on the coffee shop, surly if there was anything wrong with it he could have seen it then?

From the moment he left the coffee shop - the laptop was his, and under his care, and then all kind of things could have happen, from spilling a drink on it or dropping it on his way home. How can I assume responsibility for that? and for how long? what If had an issue a week after? a month after?

 

[Technerd108]

Why is the majority of people in here assuming it is the buyer who is the bad one here accusing the buyer of trying to scam the seller? The OP is not a regular here, they only joined to make this thread and will most probably never be seen again and yet nearly everyone has accepted the OP at their word. How do you lot know the OP is not the bad person here. Just because they made the post and said what they said does not mean it's true.

If what happened to the buyer happened to any one of you, you would be screaming hell and high water that you've been scammed and would demand your money back and that's a fact but yet here you are defending the OP telling them they are possibly being scammed and to ignore the buyer. How would you feel is this was done to you. You buy an item, check it out in the sellers presence, pay for it, take it home and it fails within 15 mins, your not happy and want your money back, the seller tells it was working when you bought it, all sales are final so tough luck your not getting your money back and then the seller ignores you. I know exactly what each and everyone one of you would do in that situation, you would contact the police and tell them you have been scammed and then give them the sellers name and contact number.

Not a single one of you would accept the item broke within 15mins of you buying it and say 'oh well, it's broke, nothing I can do about it now, i'v now lost lots of money, such is life'. Get real!!! so please stop with this 'oh, the OP is right, don't give the money back, ignore the buyer'. Utter rubbish and you know it.

No it is not utter rubbish. Your post is rather ridiculous on it's face.

Any private party sale has more risk assumed by the buyer. Caveat emptor. When you buy a used car from a private party you are encouraged to take the car to a mechanic so they can check for defects and mechanical problems. Because once you complete the transaction it is your car and your problem. Same applies here.

If I bought a used computer and it failed shortly after I would be upset. I would be upset that now I have to pay to fix something I just bought.

Then I would ask myself was the money saved buying used worth the risk?

Then I would change my behavior in buying. I would either not buy used items from a private seller or try to lower my risk by buying something less expensive.

I would always understand that if I ever buy used from a private seller that I assume all the risk in the transaction.

This has happened to me and it is why I don’t buy used electronics as a general rule.

If through no fault of their own the buyer had the screen go out 15 minutes after he bought the laptop and after he had just used it in a coffee shop with the seller that really sucks. It is also very unlikely. But stuff happens.

Could the seller be the scammer? Sure, it happens all the time. Although I highly doubt it in this case. My point though is that whether or not the seller knew there was an issue is irrelevant. Because it is the buyers job to access what they are buying and decide whether or not to risk it.

The bottom line of this thread is that this kind of thing happens and it sucks for everyone involved. However anyone that sells used stuff privately also knows that once something leaves their possession they have no control over it.

I have bought used items online that say mint with plenty of pictures and when I get it the condition is much worse than it was listed. Since the item works I have ZERO recourse.

I have sold something in perfect condition and shipped and the buyer returned it saying they didn't want it and what I got back was not the same condition I sent it. So I had to pay for shipping and lose a sale and get back an item that now I can't sell for the sane amount because the previous buyer damaged or scratched it.

This is why from a sellers perspective all sales are final. If you have a business selling used items then that is a different situation but for private party sales the seller has no obligation to take back a broken device when they sold it in working order that the buyer verified.

 

[AppliedMicro]

My take: There's no big conspiracy here and nobody's scamming anyone.
Just one of those freak occurrences where the product is actually defective - but it only shows after sale.

First, I see absolutely zero point or reason for OP to open up this thread if she/he was intending to scam the buyer.

15 min later I get a msg from him telling me the machine is on but the screen is black , I told ok let's meet again, we meet again as the same coffee shop, I was thinking maybe he is trying to scam me and replacing my working laptop with a different none functioning one , so I examine the device and it's indeed my laptop but it is now showing a black screen, keyboard light is on, the device seems on but the screen is black , i try everything (brightness, hard reset) nothing works, then 1 hour later after trying again and again, all of sudden the screen is normal again

It beggars belief to suppose this is a scam.
How much time was there between the two meeting at the coffee shop?

I can't even fathom how a skilled scammer - and hardware technician - would be able to pull that off if he intended to do it as a scam (let alone in 15 minutes, if you met immediately after receiving his message) Manipulate a MacBook into showing a black screen. Letting the seller owner examine it and perform troubleshooting herself. And then magically making the screen work again an hour later, while the notebook is in the seller's hands?

Additionally, even if the buyer was a skilled laptop repair wizard or technician to do a component swap in a short time (swap out working component for a faulty one), why would he accept the laptop and take it home - rather than strongly push for getting his money back and revert the sale right there and then?

Same is true if the buyer accidentally dropped the item from his motorcycle or something: too convoluted a a scheme to take the laptop home again and complain only later. And again, if this was a spur-of-the-moment idea, he would've pushed for his money right there at the coffee shop.

👉 Bottom line: Nothing to assume any foul play by any party. No explanations make any sense for supporting a scam.

 

[laptech]

......

If I bought a used computer and it failed shortly after I would be upset. I would be upset that now I have to pay to fix something I just bought.

.....

The OP was selling a M1 Macbook Pro, a $1,000+ machine, used second-hand probably be what $600 to $700? Lets say $700. So, lets put forward this scenario, you are the buyer here, you check it out, appear happy with it, then 15mins later it stops working. Now are you honestly sitting there at your computer telling me that after paying out $700 for what you believed to be a working M1 macbook that has stopped 15mins after you paid for it that all your going to be is upset and that you are now going to have to pay to get it fixed. Are you really trying to tell me that??? My answer to that is BS, not a chance would you behave like that, paying $700 and then be upset!!! no way, never going to happen.

 

[Hieveryone]

If its a scam, it would work like this..

1. Buyer checks the Mac OS has been fully wiped
1. Buyer takes device away and hands it straight to an accomplice close by
2. 15 mins later buyer calls to say it's faulty
3. Seller think's buyer can't possibly have interfered with it in 15 mins so agrees to meet up again
4. Buyer says, great, I can be back there in about an hour*
5. All this time the accomplice has been swapping out the motherboard from a faulty Mac
6. Buyer brings busted Mac to seller 1hr 15 mins after the sale
7. Seller thinks, 'but he only had it 15 mins before it broke'
8. Seller recognises the outer case, but has no way to recognise the internals (see 1.)
9. Seller caves, gives a refund and accepts a broken Mac.


*I think the OP hasn't said how long he was gone with it, unless I missed it. It's the crucial detail though.

DUDE THAT IS WILD!!!! I WOULD HAVE NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT!

I totally can see from your detailed description of what could happen and how the scam could work.

But man, I myself would have never thought something like that could even happen unless someone told me. Unreal!

 

[marzer]

DUDE THAT IS WILD!!!! I WOULD HAVE NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT!

I totally can see from your detailed description of what could happen and how the scam could work.

But man, I myself would have never thought something like that could even happen unless someone told me. Unreal!

In the early 70's, Hertz car rental ordered a special edition of the Ford Mustang, with a high performance engine, called the "Bullitt". It was commemorative of the car in the Steve McQueen movie of the same name. Guys would rent the car, take it home and swap the engine out with their plain-vanilla Mustang engine, then return the rental car. By the time Hertz realized what had happened, usually too many rentals passed to know whodunnit. In the 2000's they did it again but the "Bullit" engines were the uninspiring base V6. Lol.

OP: I sell most of my old gear (and cars) on CL, now that its way too easy to get charge-backs on eBay/Paypal. I always give the buyer the opportunity to test drive, and have NEVER considered refunding...You did your honest part by letting him test drive it, your moral obligation is complete. Buyers who don't understand that private face-to-face sales are "final" have no business buying off CL. That is not your responsibility, there are too many scammers out there. Women are often considered preferable "marks" by scammers because of their tendency to be more empathetic. I have a grown daughter and have given her this advice in the past. (Assuming that's actually you in your avatar but maybe not, my advice still stands for anyone.)

Once the item leaves your view, anything could happen out of your control...the laptop could've been dropped (without external damage), tampered with out of buyers-remorse!, sat on, spilled on with a to-go coffee or whatever. Personally, I believe "mw360" is spot on!--LET IT GO, if he contacts you again text him SORRY BUT ALL SALES FINAL, SUGGEST HE TAKE IT TO A REPAIR SHOP, TERMINATE ALL FURTHER COMMS. Enjoy your replacement purchase!

P.S. IMO-Anyone who doesn't have the fortitude to stand firm on ALL-SALES-FINAL, should not be privately selling. Makes a person too vulnerable to scammers.

 

[AppliedMicro]

1. Buyer checks the Mac OS has been fully wiped
1. Buyer takes device away and hands it straight to an accomplice close by
2. 15 mins later buyer calls to say it's faulty
3. Seller think's buyer can't possibly have interfered with it in 15 mins so agrees to meet up again
4. Buyer says, great, I can be back there in about an hour*
5. All this time the accomplice has been swapping out the motherboard from a faulty Mac
6. Buyer brings busted Mac to seller 1hr 15 mins after the sale
7. Seller thinks, 'but he only had it 15 mins before it broke'
8. Seller recognises the outer case, but has no way to recognise the internals (see 1.)
9. Seller caves, gives a refund and accepts a broken Mac.

But that’s not what happened.
Instead, the buyer gets lulled into taking the notebook:

then 1 hour later after trying again and again, all of sudden the screen is normal again, everything works great and he takes it and I think we are all good.

There isn‘t any mention of buyer pressing for a refund

👉 That’s where the „must be a scammer“ logic fails.

 

[mw360]

But that’s not what happened.
Instead, the buyer gets lulled into taking the notebook:

There isn‘t any mention of buyer pressing for a refund

👉 That’s where the „must be a scammer“ logic fails.

I didn’t say it must be a scam. A poster asked how it could be a scam, and I posted how it could be a scam.

But now you’re saying it can’t be a scam because the scammer isn’t behaving in the stereotypical ways you think a scammer should? That attitude is exactly how people get scammed.

Is the guy pestering for money? Yes he is. Is it significant how scammy he behaved up until this point? No it isn’t.

 

[AppliedMicro]

I didn’t say it must be a scam. A poster asked how it could be a scam, and I posted how it could be a scam.

You may not have said that (you described a possible scenario) but the post right above mine stated to the OP they believed you’re „spot on“.

 

[SoldOnApple]

I wouldn't even trust Apple to sell me a pre-owned MacBook. I bought one once and the battery died quick smart.

 

[christlinah]

Tbh I wouldn't refund the buyer any money.
It worked fine when you sold it so you're not to be blamed for what happened afterwards - and also you don't know what he did with it during the time he had it. Maybe he dropped it, spilled liquid over it or even tampered with it to scam you.

Just nah.

 

[laptech]

The majority in here are saying don't refund the buyer because it could be a scam. So I am curious as to what you lot would do if you was the buyer. Yes you see that the machine is working but it could be an intermittent fault. Just because the seller say's it's working and has been for over a year, do you take the sellers word for it? You hand over the money and low and behold 15mins later it stops working. The seller is adamant it was working for over a year but yet when you get it it stops working after 15mins. Now, are you going to accept the sellers word that the machine was in full good working order or are you going to think that the seller has scammed you in some way? because looking at the responses in here the majority of you would accept that the now failing machine is your fault and you've lost your money due to 'all sales are final'.

 

[doobydoooby]

Quite simple. As the buyer you have many choices in making a purchase of a laptop. You can buy new with a guarantee, you can buy refurbished with a guarantee, you can buy second-hand from a regulated marketplace where you know you have the right to complain if things go wrong, you can buy from a market stall seller who might still have a stall at the same location the week after, or you can buy from a random person in a coffee shop. Quite clearly and obvious to everyone, the riskiest of which is to buy an unknown device from an unknown someone in a coffee shop with no proof of anything. The device might be stolen, broken, whatever. Or you might get lucky and it's absolutely great. You examine it when you buy it and make your decision. But the only reason anyone would buy "off market" is because it's cheaper than way and that's because the risk is higher. You bear the risk because you are buying it cheaper. You are choosing to take the risk precisely because it's cheaper than your alternative: buying a device from a reputable dealer who gives you a receipt and some form of return policy.

 

[LinkRS]

If I were the buyer, I would assume that would be all sales final. However, if the product failed to work so quickly after buying it, I would contact the seller, not with the intent of a refund, but more to ask if they have any ideas what was wrong. Perhaps I did something stupid with it, or it is a quirk of the system that the original owner may know how to resolve. Of course if I contacted them, and they told me to go pound sand, I would just go pound sand, and then make a point to not do business with them again. If it has been days or weeks since I purchased it, I wouldn't even contact the seller. As the seller, I would want to try and help the person, but under no circumstances would I refund the money. IMHO, the only reason a refund should even be in the picture, is if the seller KNOWS there was a problem, and was just hoping the buyer doesn't notice. In this case, I think the seller had no malintent and this was just a case of bad luck for the buyer. If the M1 MB is still under warranty, they may get some resolution from Apple. This is the risk you take when you purchase second hand. Good luck!

Rich S.

 

[HDFan]

I wouldn't even trust Apple to sell me a pre-owned MacBook. I bought one once and the battery died quick smart.

Unfortunate, but things break. Apple refurbished items have the standard one year limited warranty so you just get it replaced. Apple refurbished is probably the best place to purchase a refurbished product. Lots of posts in MacRumors from satisfied customers.

 

[shahin90]

First off I am not sure how you sold the laptop. I would avoid things like Craigslist and personal meet ups. Also any time you sell a device as the previous poster said all sales are final. There are no returns. Try to sell used on Swappa, Amazon and maybe ebay but never allow for returns. Ship never meet up.

The reason for having an all sales are final is because the buyer could do anything with your previous laptop like accidentally drop it, scratch it, etc.

You can help with software issues like maybe the device is still linked to your icloud account. Beyond that there is nothing you can do.

DO NOT TAKE THE LAPTOP BACK and don't refund his money.

He bought a used laptop and once he paid and took the device out of your physical possession it is his.

If you met him he had a chance to check everything out and if there was a problem he should have seen it in the initial meet and buy.

I would block him as well. You could explain you can't take the laptop back because once it left your possession you have no control what happens and when you sold it, it was working fine. Then block.

If you were to take it back now you have a device worth considerably less or have to make a repair through no fault of your own.

I have sold countless items and apple products with 0 issues on craigslist and I always meet in a cafe. I would personally never take the item back as I have no idea what they did to it after picking it up tho. I would highly advise against selling on amazon/ebay etc which people use credit cards. People can easily file a dispute now a days and Visa takes their side and you will lose your money.

Sell on craigslist, take cash and goodbye.

 

[shahin90]

If its a scam, it would work like this..

1. Buyer checks the Mac OS has been fully wiped
1. Buyer takes device away and hands it straight to an accomplice close by
2. 15 mins later buyer calls to say it's faulty
3. Seller think's buyer can't possibly have interfered with it in 15 mins so agrees to meet up again
4. Buyer says, great, I can be back there in about an hour*
5. All this time the accomplice has been swapping out the motherboard from a faulty Mac
6. Buyer brings busted Mac to seller 1hr 15 mins after the sale
7. Seller thinks, 'but he only had it 15 mins before it broke'
8. Seller recognises the outer case, but has no way to recognise the internals (see 1.)
9. Seller caves, gives a refund and accepts a broken Mac.


*I think the OP hasn't said how long he was gone with it, unless I missed it. It's the crucial detail though.

This sounds like a scam that would fail 99/100 times. I'm going to bet most sellers won't even respond to something like this. lol

 

[mw360]

This sounds like a scam that would fail 99/100 times. I'm going to bet most sellers won't even respond to something like this. lol

It wouldn’t even have failed on 99% of posters in this thread. “Lol”

 

[JaraCz]

The majority in here are saying don't refund the buyer because it could be a scam. So I am curious as to what you lot would do if you was the buyer. Yes you see that the machine is working but it could be an intermittent fault. Just because the seller say's it's working and has been for over a year, do you take the sellers word for it? You hand over the money and low and behold 15mins later it stops working. The seller is adamant it was working for over a year but yet when you get it it stops working after 15mins. Now, are you going to accept the sellers word that the machine was in full good working order or are you going to think that the seller has scammed you in some way? because looking at the responses in here the majority of you would accept that the now failing machine is your fault and you've lost your money due to 'all sales are final'.

As buyer you take risk when buying second hand item. For this purpose I buy from foreign people only unpacked products with warranty and which I can verify on Apple https://checkcoverage.apple.com/ and are not activated.
If there is problem with the item I can claim warranty at Apple premium reseller.

 

[Fishrrman]

It's been posted earlier in the thread, but I'll repeat:

On the day that the seller first sold the MBP in question, IT WAS STILL UNDER APPLE FACTORY WARRANTY.

That means the new owner could have taken it to any Apple Store and received warranty service.

Whether he did or not, we don't know.

 

[davedvdy]

This is not true. You can put no returns accepted when selling on Swappa and Ebay.

I've never done business on Swappa, but I was a Powerseller on eBay and have done over a thousand transactions there. You can put anything you want on an an eBay listing and it doesn't mean much of anything. Paypal nearly in every situation is going to side with the buyer. "Not as described" is often what is noted.

One of my last items I sold there was an Apple Watch a few years ago. The buyer was a fraud, and sent me back tens unit pads instead of the Apple Watch (bait and switch) citing the Apple Watch was defective. I did my homework and found out that he was a scammer with a history prior to receiving the tens pads (he sent someone a Playboy magazine, and another a newspaper instead of their Watch in one situation too). The system seemed to even auto side with him. I got my money back after maybe 5 escalated Paypal CS calls, the return reversed, but it was an absolute nightmare. Others just flat out got ripped off and lost their money and item they sold, sadly.

EDIT: added info

 

[marzer]

The majority in here are saying don't refund the buyer because it could be a scam. So I am curious as to what you lot would do if you was the buyer. Yes you see that the machine is working but it could be an intermittent fault. Just because the seller say's it's working and has been for over a year, do you take the sellers word for it? You hand over the money and low and behold 15mins later it stops working. The seller is adamant it was working for over a year but yet when you get it it stops working after 15mins. Now, are you going to accept the sellers word that the machine was in full good working order or are you going to think that the seller has scammed you in some way? because looking at the responses in here the majority of you would accept that the now failing machine is your fault and you've lost your money due to 'all sales are final'.

Yup. That's exactly how it works when purchasing used items from a private seller. If people can't accept the risk, buy from a reputable vendor...because most of those private transactions will not accommodate a refund, leaving you SOL. It's a gamble for a better price...and in my experience, where I have always done due diligence to wring out a computer or automobile before buying, its rare. I have yet to run into such a situation for all these years (knock on wood). But when it does finally happen to me, I will know its a risk I was willing to take, no ones fault but my own for not spending the extra $$ at a reputable vendor.

 

[seadragon]

@abaganov2 I’m confused. MacBook Air or Pro. Which is it? Or did you also have an Air with the same issue?

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-air-black-screen-after-reset.2364021/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-air-black-screen-after-reset.2364020/

Why 3 threads?

 

[Alpha Centauri]

@abaganov2 I’m confused. MacBook Air or Pro. Which is it? Or did you also have an Air with the same issue?

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-air-black-screen-after-reset.2364021/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-air-black-screen-after-reset.2364020/

Why 3 threads?

Good catch. Was an MBA on 5th October, turned into a MBP four days later in an almost identical post. I seemingly followed both threads and someone suggested that the M1 MBP must still be under warranty. This threw me, as I thought it couldn't be as an M1 Air. The Monterey post also started on 5th Oct as an Air.

 

[abaganov2]

@abaganov2 I’m confused. MacBook Air or Pro. Which is it? Or did you also have an Air with the same issue?

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-air-black-screen-after-reset.2364021/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-air-black-screen-after-reset.2364020/

Why 3 threads?

Yes that was a typo at the heat of the moment, it's indeed the pro model, I am not that tech savvy