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Tozovac

macrumors 68040
Jun 12, 2014
3,035
3,233
They should should have kept the technology they developed. The touch bar is so useful for alot of things. I agree with everyone who said they should have just kept it above the function keys instead of replacing them.
Just another example of Apple’s occasional shortsighted design egotism. Like iOS7, shallow keyboards, USB ports.

Apple loves to take something away in the hopes of being brilliantly minimalistically innovative. But as time passes, they’re running out of things to possibly remove or replace on a MacBook.

Hopefully this blindness towards the importance of taking away something important when introducing something new was fixed when Jony left the building.
 

Tozovac

macrumors 68040
Jun 12, 2014
3,035
3,233
I always hated function keys even before the touchbar was invented...
Curious, are you saying you would have preferred no function keys at all?

What was it about them?

Would you have been ok accessing thsir functions via key strokes and menu commands?
 
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Coochie Boogs

macrumors regular
Mar 18, 2022
139
347
New York
Touch Bar hate always seemed over the top for me, it was a nice little change to the MBPs that have them. Those that prefer the physical function keys aren't wrong either.
 

anthony13

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2012
1,054
1,201
I don't have any strong opinions on it, some of my app's did use it rather well, but ultimately the day to day annoyance of having to look down for brightness and volume controls wasn't great. And sometimes it just makes me think it would have made much more sense if they had touchscreens, which is a lightning rod of a conversation it itself, but the Touch Bar in that context, is just a so-so stand in for real functionality. but again, every one's work flow is different, and some people loved it, so I get it.
 
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engbren

macrumors regular
Jul 21, 2011
134
89
Australia
I haven't missed the Touch Bar at all - in fact when I upgraded from a MBA 2017 to a MBP 2019 with Touch Bar, I regretted the purchase. Touch Bar was a constant inhibitor of my productivity. I understand for others use cases and workflows Touch Bar may be productive. For me, it just didn't work. I now have a MBA M1 and have noticed a significant uptick in productivity relative to the 2019 MBP.
 
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ahostmadsen

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Dec 28, 2009
1,109
854
I don't have any strong opinions on it, some of my app's did use it rather well, but ultimately the day to day annoyance of having to look down for brightness and volume controls wasn't great. And sometimes it just makes me think it would have made much more sense if they had touchscreens, which is a lightning rod of a conversation it itself, but the Touch Bar in that context, is just a so-so stand in for real functionality. but again, every one's work flow is different, and some people loved it, so I get it.
I don’t really get the many complaints about having to look to adjust brightness and volume. Do people change volume and brightness several times per minute? In what kind of usage scenarios do you have to change brightness and volume constantly? I change brightness probably a few times per week, so anyway I have to look at the function keys to find the right ones. I change the brightness more often on my iPad, and that is more of a hassle, having to go into the control panel.
 
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Madhatter32

macrumors 65816
Apr 17, 2020
1,478
2,949
I don’t really get the many complaints about having to look to adjust brightness and volume. Do people change volume and brightness several times per minute? In what kind of usage scenarios do you have to change brightness and volume constantly? I change brightness probably a few times per week, so anyway I have to look at the function keys to find the right ones. I change the brightness more often on my iPad, and that is more of a hassle, having to go into the control panel.
I change brightness daily -- at night I want a dimmer screen. I change volume daily as well because I often work with others around and I try, although I sometimes fail, to be courteous. The functions keys are much easier to use. All you need to do is press them and they actually work.
 
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flybass

macrumors regular
May 1, 2015
164
268
yes- you should be the only one. I waited for the Touch Bar to be gone before buying another MacBook Pro. Used my 2013 model for quite a long time...
 
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anthony13

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2012
1,054
1,201
I don’t really get the many complaints about having to look to adjust brightness and volume. Do people change volume and brightness several times per minute? In what kind of usage scenarios do you have to change brightness and volume constantly? I change brightness probably a few times per week, so anyway I have to look at the function keys to find the right ones. I change the brightness more often on my iPad, and that is more of a hassle, having to go into the control panel.
Fair question but yes, many times a day. I’m constantly changing brightness. And certainly volume.
 

MadeTheSwitch

macrumors 65816
Apr 20, 2009
1,193
15,781
Curious, are you saying you would have preferred no function keys at all?

What was it about them?

Would you have been ok accessing thsir functions via key strokes and menu commands?
I am not a touch typist. And as such, I have always find them hard to see and pick out which one I need. They look the same to me and I often hit the wrong one. So the touch bar was genuis to me and actually solved a problem I had. I do understand that it created problems for others though. I don’t know what the solution is, but Apple needs to come up with something that works for everyone. Eliminating the touch bar isn’t it.
 
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AmoTell14

macrumors newbie
Mar 27, 2022
1
7
I upgraded from a 2019 16" Intel MBP to a 2021 M1 16" MPB. Everything is much, much better, except that I miss the touchbar. It's not that I found the touchbar super-useful, but it was a lot more useful that the fixed set of function keys. An example: it was so easy to take a screen shot. And I could easily adjust the brightness on both my external monitor (LG 5K) and built in display. With BetterTouchTools it was even more useful. I never understood why the touchbar was to hated. Certainly not a giant step in UI, but a moderately useful invention.
BRING IT BACKKK..... I am not saying I used it all the time however it was probably my favorite feature on my first MacBook Pro from 2018. It looked awesome, it had a great premise and could have evolved into something more people might have grown to love. I literally refuse to upgrade my 13" M1 MBP until the new one brings the Touch Bar back. Or how about at least the option to special order it. I don't care if I never touched it once it was aesthetically pleasing and I want it back. I don't see how so many people complained that they removed it so fast, like were people really losing sleep at night over it? especially for the alternative F-Keys that look like they came from the early 90's.......
 

Christopher Kim

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2016
768
740
Put me as a +1 for those who didn’t use the Touchbar much so didn’t have a strong view one way or the other on it. And especially over the last 2 years as my 2016 13” MBP became my WFH computer during the pandemic, 95% in closed clamshell mode, I rarely had a chance to use it.

That being said, the one thing I have sort of missed about the Touchbar as I’ve gotten used to my 14” M1 Pro MBP, are the simplest of things 1) Adding a new tab in Safari with the quick [+] button that was in the Touchbar, and 2) quickly tapping from tab to tab via Touchbar.
 

Reggaenald

Suspended
Sep 26, 2021
864
798
If Apple had ever added a touchbar to a stand-alone keyboard, it might have taken off. I have a touchbar on my MacBook Pro, but 95% of the usage is at my desk - with an external keyboard. So while I “Have” one, I barely use it enough to form an opinion. Lots of other users move back & forth between a desktop & portable, and again - no opportunity to really rely on the touchbar because it’s not always there. I don’t know why it wasn’t fully adopted across the line, I can only guess there was internal disagreement about it as well as external.
Exactly. I said the same thing since it’s introduction, it is useless on a Pro machine if it’s not available on every pro machine. Why bother with the touchbar if keyboard shortcuts do basically the same thing and are universally available.
 
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Reggaenald

Suspended
Sep 26, 2021
864
798
Put me as a +1 for those who didn’t use the Touchbar much so didn’t have a strong view one way or the other on it. And especially over the last 2 years as my 2016 13” MBP became my WFH computer during the pandemic, 95% in closed clamshell mode, I rarely had a chance to use it.

That being said, the one thing I have sort of missed about the Touchbar as I’ve gotten used to my 14” M1 Pro MBP, are the simplest of things 1) Adding a new tab in Safari with the quick [+] button that was in the Touchbar, and 2) quickly tapping from tab to tab via Touchbar.
Ever heard of keyboard shortcuts?
 

Sterkenburg

macrumors 6502a
Oct 27, 2016
556
553
Japan
Ever heard of keyboard shortcuts?
To be fair, we should not expect everyone to be a keyboard power user. That said, having to look at a glass strip that does not offer any tactile feedback is pretty terrible no matter how you look at it, especially if you have been using macOS and its apps long enough for your fingers to have developed some muscle memory.

I too think it's 100% worth the effort to learn shortcuts: they are available on any keyboard and machine, contrary to the touch bar which is only usable on the internal keyboard of a specific generation of MBPs.
 

ahostmadsen

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Dec 28, 2009
1,109
854
Ever heard of keyboard shortcuts?
The touchbar was useful for rarely, but not too rarely, used functions. If you use a function often, you can remember the shortcut (like copy and paste), but if you don't use a function often you might not bother to learn the shortcut. The touchbar then was in the difficult place of having to have very carefully selected functions between rarely used and never used. I good example to me was the screenshot function. Personally, I use it rarely enough to forget the various shortcuts, but often enough for it to be nice to have on the touchbar. I bad example was MS Word, which had bold and italic etc. on the touchbar. I think 99% know those shortcuts.
 
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Christopher Kim

macrumors 6502a
Nov 18, 2016
768
740
Ever heard of keyboard shortcuts?
Lol, fair enough. The new Safari tab I should use, admittedly, via keyboard shortcut.

The quick swapping from one tab to another, I found the Touch Bar more useful so you could skip directly from one tab to another that's a few tabs away. Vs keyboard shortcutting to get through each tab one by one.

Anyways, I haven't thought much about it, just something I noticed muscle memory-wise where I was "missing" the touch bar over the last few months.
 

0_1

macrumors newbie
Dec 13, 2021
10
4
My 13" work MBP has one (and had it on my previous personal one) and have not thought twice about it not being there on my 2021 16". Good riddance to bad rubbish.
 
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Madhatter32

macrumors 65816
Apr 17, 2020
1,478
2,949
Its cheaper for Apple not to have Touch Bar right?
Yes. The lack of a Touch Bar is cheaper for Apple to make but I doubt that any of those savings results in a cheaper product for the consumer. Apple is renown for taking away functions while not reducing pricing throughout its product line.
 
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Fred Zed

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2019
5,827
6,519
Upstate NY . Was FL.
No. The Touch Bar is cheaper for Apple to make but I doubt that any of those savings results in a cheaper product for the consumer. Apple is renown for taking away functions while not reducing pricing throughout its product line.
So for Apple to add an extra display and its associated electronics on the keyboards reduces manufacturing costs? thanks for the clarification.
 

Madhatter32

macrumors 65816
Apr 17, 2020
1,478
2,949
So for Apple to add an extra display and its associated electronics on the keyboards reduces manufacturing costs? thanks for the clarification.
Sorry. I screwed up my post and wrote the opposite of what I meant to say. This is what happens when I post things while working. I'll edit that post.

Anyway, I meant to say that a regular keyboard with function keys is cheaper to make than a keyboard with the Touch Bar. My point was that Apple is unlikely to pass the production savings to the consumer given its history.
 
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