AMA - AirPods Max, from a normal guy who really appreciates audio quality... *gasp*

[Enygmatic]

A very good attitude to have, and it’s much appreciated. As far as what ‘audiophiles’ look for, well I’ve been told I’m a bit of an audiophile, though as far as I’m concerned, I just know what I like.

I’ve yet to discover wireless headphones that can match a good pair of wired cans for my ears. It’s not an impossible task to achieve I suppose, enough bandwidth, lossless codecs and a lossless source will probably do it.

But that’s not what I go into wireless headphones looking for. I want a decent sound obviously, what’s the point in getting them otherwise. But for me, wireless headphones fill in the gaps, where wired ones are just less convenient.

I wouldn’t ever try to say my AirPods Pro, for instance, offer the best sound I’ve ever heard - they don’t, not by a long shot. But for pottering around in the garden, doing DIY and many other use cases, they’re great. No cords to get in the way, decent sound for what they are, just good old fashioned convenience and acceptable sound quality, if you go into them knowing their limitations.

I’m not the sort of annoying audio snob, who would turn their nose up at, what can be an enjoyable pair of headphones, just because they’re wireless. Or any other reason for that matter. If we’re going into this looking for actual audiophile headphones, just stop looking at Airpods Max and quadruple your budget.

If you want a pleasing wireless set of affordable* cans, then there’s a plentiful supply of Sony, Bose, B&W, Beyerdynamic and so on to fill that need. From the sounds of it, a good amount of people would include the Airpods Max in that list too, which can only be a good sign.

As much as I’ll read reviews from many different places, it’s often the opinion of end-users such as yourself who will sway my decision. I trust people who aren’t incentivised by freebies, or who *may* feel the need to be more forgiving in order to continue receiving review samples of products. When you’re throwing your own hard earned cash at something, you tend to have a different opinion on a product, after all, if you didn’t like it, you’d return it.

*Affordable being subjective obviously.

Thanks for the feedback! I am an audiophile, I just bristle at any of these silly names or titles - but I’m INTO audio (and video and photography), mostly due to childhood and adult issues with my eyes. Amazing what we take for granted... but I digress. Too many times those “titles” or those who want them do nothing more than act as gatekeepers toward a particular hobby or passion, and make it unwelcoming for others - I really don’t like that. The tone on so many “audiophile” videos reviewing headphones just... no. Can’t do it.

“I’ve yet to discover wireless headphones that can match a good pair of wired cans for my ears.”

And you won’t, likely. Software advances will help - computational audio, like computational photography, is the future - however there’s still physics involved. The headphones in this segment typically have 40mm drivers (or smaller) consisting of various materials, some better than others. However, when you’re talking about audiophile cans with 100+mm drivers, then you take into account the size necessary to house those, then the premium resonant materials, then a BATTERY that can drive them for many hours... suddenly, you’re out of the realm of reality with regards to something someone would be comfortable wearing. Then you thrown in Bluetooth’s inherent shortcomings and fragmented codec standards. And we haven’t considered the PRICE those things would go for... lol.

“But that’s not what I go into wireless headphones looking for. I want a decent sound obviously, what’s the point in getting them otherwise. But for me, wireless headphones fill in the gaps, where wired ones are just less convenient.”

Awesome outlook! 100% agreed.

I have multiple pairs of high-end headphones, costing $$$$, driven by equipment that costs $$$$... what the hell good does any of that do me if I’m in an airport? Or want to hear a song while I’m in the bed? That’s why I - as a consumer and audiophile - am excited about products like these. They open up possibilities for other companies to move beyond that “$250-350” for the segment that wants/appreciates it. And that may not be for everyone - there are PLENTY of great-sounding headphones for under $150, as you’ve mentioned. A product like APM can hopefully show teams at Bose, Sony, Sennheiser, B&O, etc. that there’s an audience at that price point just past what’s been the most popular the past 5-10 years, that will pay for premium materials and improved sound. Bose doesn’t play in that area. Sony doesn’t, either - they’re below and WAY beyond.

The APM are now a part of my 3-can rotation for wireless - with APP and H95 (which I feel sound a better most times, but I’m impressed the APM punch in that weight class, given the price disparity). I won’t begin to tell someone what’s “worth it” to them, but I will say that I don’t feel the APM are “overpriced”. They may be a bit expensive, which is different than overpriced, and if they are, and you don’t get value out of the Apple integration, then definitely go in a different direction.

Win-Win for everyone, especially music-lovers.

 

[TrueBlou]

Thanks for the feedback! I am an audiophile, I just bristle at any of these silly names or titles - but I’m INTO audio (and video and photography), mostly due to childhood and adult issues with my eyes. Amazing what we take for granted... but I digress. Too many times those “titles” or those who want them do nothing more than act as gatekeepers toward a particular hobby or passion, and make it unwelcoming for others - I really don’t like that. The tone on so many “audiophile” videos reviewing headphones just... no. Can’t do it.

“I’ve yet to discover wireless headphones that can match a good pair of wired cans for my ears.”

And you won’t, likely. Software advances will help - computational audio, like computational photography, is the future - however there’s still physics involved. The headphones in this segment typically have 40mm drivers consisting of various materials, some better than others. However, when you’re talking about audiophile cans with 100mm drivers, then you take into account the size necessary to house those, then the premium resonant materials, then a BATTERY that can drive them for many hours... suddenly, you’re out of the realm of reality with regards to something someone would be comfortable wearing. Then you thrown in Bluetooth’s inherent shortcomings and fragmented codec standards. And we haven’t considered the PRICE those things would go for... lol.

“But that’s not what I go into wireless headphones looking for. I want a decent sound obviously, what’s the point in getting them otherwise. But for me, wireless headphones fill in the gaps, where wired ones are just less convenient.”

Awesome outlook! 100% agreed.

I have multiple pairs of high-end headphones, costing $$$$, driven by equipment that costs $$$$... what the hell good does any of that do me if I’m in an airport? Or want to hear a song while I’m in the bed? That’s why I - as a consumer and audiophile - am excited about products like these. They open up possibilities for other companies to move beyond that “$250-350” for the segment that wants/appreciates it. And that may not be for everyone - there are PLENTY of great-sounding headphones for under $150, as you’ve mentioned. A product like APM can hopefully show teams at Bose, Sony, Sennheiser, B&O, etc. that there’s an audience at that price point just past what’s been the most popular the past 5-10 years, that will pay for premium materials and improved sound. Bose doesn’t play in that area. Sony doesn’t, either - they’re below and WAY beyond.

The APM are now a part of my 3-can rotation for wireless - with APP and H95 (which I feel sound a better most times, but I’m impressed the APM punch in that weight class, given the price disparity). I won’t begin to tell someone what’s “worth it” to them, but I will say that I don’t feel the APM are “overpriced”. They may be a bit expensive, which is different than overpriced, and if they are, and you don’t get value out of the Apple integration, then definitely go in a different direction.

Win-Win for everyone, especially music-lovers.

I know how you feel with the price point, more or less. Yes they’re pricey compared to the Sony’s, or whatever. But, with my APP I’ve come to appreciate things like spatial audio and to be honest, it’s a feature I rather want in my wireless cans. So that limits my choice to Apple. That alone wouldn’t justify the price, but as a whole package, including, among other things, build quality and materials. I’m of a mind that they may not actually be all that overpriced.

I’m also curious as to what they sound like wired, if you’ve tried that?
I ordered the Lightning/3.5mm adapter along with my headphones. Again, I don’t expect them to get close to wired headphones I’ve payed a hell of a lot more for. But the function is there, so why not give it a go.

 

[TrueBlou]

Thanks for the feedback! I am an audiophile, I just bristle at any of these silly names or titles - but I’m INTO audio (and video and photography), mostly due to childhood and adult issues with my eyes. Amazing what we take for granted... but I digress. Too many times those “titles” or those who want them do nothing more than act as gatekeepers toward a particular hobby or passion, and make it unwelcoming for others - I really don’t like that. The tone on so many “audiophile” videos reviewing headphones just... no. Can’t do it.

“I’ve yet to discover wireless headphones that can match a good pair of wired cans for my ears.”

And you won’t, likely. Software advances will help - computational audio, like computational photography, is the future - however there’s still physics involved. The headphones in this segment typically have 40mm drivers (or smaller) consisting of various materials, some better than others. However, when you’re talking about audiophile cans with 100+mm drivers, then you take into account the size necessary to house those, then the premium resonant materials, then a BATTERY that can drive them for many hours... suddenly, you’re out of the realm of reality with regards to something someone would be comfortable wearing. Then you thrown in Bluetooth’s inherent shortcomings and fragmented codec standards. And we haven’t considered the PRICE those things would go for... lol.

“But that’s not what I go into wireless headphones looking for. I want a decent sound obviously, what’s the point in getting them otherwise. But for me, wireless headphones fill in the gaps, where wired ones are just less convenient.”

Awesome outlook! 100% agreed.

I have multiple pairs of high-end headphones, costing $$$$, driven by equipment that costs $$$$... what the hell good does any of that do me if I’m in an airport? Or want to hear a song while I’m in the bed? That’s why I - as a consumer and audiophile - am excited about products like these. They open up possibilities for other companies to move beyond that “$250-350” for the segment that wants/appreciates it. And that may not be for everyone - there are PLENTY of great-sounding headphones for under $150, as you’ve mentioned. A product like APM can hopefully show teams at Bose, Sony, Sennheiser, B&O, etc. that there’s an audience at that price point just past what’s been the most popular the past 5-10 years, that will pay for premium materials and improved sound. Bose doesn’t play in that area. Sony doesn’t, either - they’re below and WAY beyond.

The APM are now a part of my 3-can rotation for wireless - with APP and H95 (which I feel sound a better most times, but I’m impressed the APM punch in that weight class, given the price disparity). I won’t begin to tell someone what’s “worth it” to them, but I will say that I don’t feel the APM are “overpriced”. They may be a bit expensive, which is different than overpriced, and if they are, and you don’t get value out of the Apple integration, then definitely go in a different direction.

Win-Win for everyone, especially music-lovers.

Out of curiosity, as you’re an ‘audiophile’, ugh, hate that word I prefer to just be someone who enjoys quality sound and knows what they like.

Anyway, what’s your poison? My setup of choice is Arcam paired with Monitor Audio speakers (and some stupidly expensive cables). We all like different things, I’ve tried a lot of combinations over the years and that’s what I ended up settling on as the sound I like.

 

[Enygmatic]

I know how you feel with the price point, more or less. Yes they’re pricey compared to the Sony’s, or whatever. But, with my APP I’ve come to appreciate things like spatial audio and to be honest, it’s a feature I rather want in my wireless cans. So that limits my choice to Apple. That alone wouldn’t justify the price, but as a whole package, including, among other things, build quality and materials. I’m of a mind that they may not actually be all that overpriced.

I’m also curious as to what they sound like wired, if you’ve tried that?
I ordered the Lightning/3.5mm adapter along with my headphones. Again, I don’t expect them to get close to wired headphones I’ve payed a hell of a lot more for. But the function is there, so why not give it a go.

They’re not “overpriced” at all, imo (and by the traditional definition of the word); pricey? Sure.

I do have the cable (which I maintain should have been included with the headphones, but I understand why Apple didn’t); it’s more a means of functionality in those specific applications (e.g. airplane media, direct input for mixing, microphones, editing, etc.) where bluetooth isn’t viable, or where any potential lag/latency can be detrimental. So they don’t really do anything for the sound, in reality. What’s different from, say the Bose QC35ii or Sony M3/M4, is that there’s no drop off in audio quality or volume in wired mode. Again, the APM aren’t passive, so you have to have battery for them to work - even wired. The cable offers increased functionality/usability, not audio improvement.

 

[Enygmatic]

Out of curiosity, as you’re an ‘audiophile’, ugh, hate that word I prefer to just be someone who enjoys quality sound and knows what they like.

Anyway, what’s your poison? My setup of choice is Arcam paired with Monitor Audio speakers (and some stupidly expensive cables). We all like different things, I’ve tried a lot of combinations over the years and that’s what I ended up settling on as the sound I like.

That’s tough... my listening room is for headphone listening only, as it’s soundproofed to that degree.

I have a pair of Zu Audio Mk IVs still that I’m very satisfied with... with the little one around the house now, I haven’t really been playing in that world as much any more, and have gone more toward building my headphone collection. But yeah, those have always sounded great for me, as reference speakers as well. I have a pair of Totems in my game room, as my surround setup.

Cables... yes. The necessary evil. lol

 

[TrueBlou]

They’re not “overpriced” at all, imo (and by the traditional definition of the word); pricey? Sure.

I do have the cable (which I maintain should have been included with the headphones, but I understand why Apple didn’t); it’s more a means of functionality in those specific applications (e.g. airplane media, direct input for mixing, microphones, editing, etc.) where bluetooth isn’t viable, or where any potential lag/latency can be detrimental. So they don’t really do anything for the sound, in reality. What’s different from, say the Bose QC35ii or Sony M3/M4, is that there’s no drop off in audio quality or volume in wired mode. Again, the APM aren’t passive, so you have to have battery for them to work - even wired. The cable offers increased functionality/usability, not audio improvement.

I rather had a feeling that would be the case, considering the processing they do. Good to hear that there’s no drop off though, assuming I like the sound, I’m happy if it stays the same wired. Though in all honesty I very much doubt that they’ll be used wired. Especially when we’re all in lockdown and can’t go anywhere, so travelling headphones is out of the window for the time being.

As for the price, I can’t pass too much judgement on that as I’ve yet to hear them. But I didn’t have a problem throwing £630 odd quid at a pair - yeah, I bought the cable, and AppleCare, what the hell, why not.

I’m really just going on what other people have been saying, but that’s a very personal opinion, they’re not really expensive in the headphone world. Yeah, if you’re looking at the MX4 sort of price bracket, they could be considered pricey at first glance. But they’re a damn sight better built, in my humble opinion.

That’s tough... my listening room is for headphone listening only, as it’s soundproofed to that degree.

I have a pair of Zu Audio Mk IVs still that I’m very satisfied with... with the little one around the house now, I haven’t really been playing in that world as much any more, and have gone more toward building my headphone collection. But yeah, those have always sounded great for me, as reference speakers as well. I have a pair of Totems in my game room, as my surround setup.

Cables... yes. The necessary evil. lol

I can definitely relate to that. Somehow I managed to marry a woman who doesn’t like noise. Really doesn’t like noise. I’m banned from having the floor standers I love in the lounge. Too loud apparently and they don’t ‘fit in’... her sodding ornament cabinets do somehow.

I’ve just finished her craft room, next door to my office. And as she’s working from home, she’s in there with a wee office setup. Me? Well I’ve been sodding banished because the music from my office is too loud if she’s speaking to customers. So at the moment, I’m working in the lounge. That’s part of why I’ve orderd the APM, I think they’ll be the best fit for working in my office, without having my HiFi blaring.

I can hear people thinking, why not use your wired cans, or one of your many wireless sets? Simple, I need the flexibility to move around while I’m working, so wired ones are out. And as I mentioned earlier, none of my wireless cans have good enough transparency for me to hear my surroundings well enough. The APP are almost good enough with the transparency adjustments. But it has too much of an effect on the audio quality for my liking. Not to mention their battery life is far too short for a working day. I always have music playing, it’s one of my passions and as an ex-roadie, not having music playing just seems wrong

I’m assuming that’s due to them only having two outward facing microphones, and me pushing them beyond what they’re really capable of. I’d like to think that the APM, with six outward facing microphones can do better.

 

[Enygmatic]

I rather had a feeling that would be the case, considering the processing they do. Good to hear that there’s no drop off though, assuming I like the sound, I’m happy if it stays the same wired. Though in all honesty I very much doubt that they’ll be used wired. Especially when we’re all in lockdown and can’t go anywhere, so travelling headphones is out of the window for the time being.

As for the price, I can’t pass too much judgement on that as I’ve yet to hear them. But I didn’t have a problem throwing £630 odd quid at a pair - yeah, I bought the cable, and AppleCare, what the hell, why not.

I’m really just going on what other people have been saying, but that’s a very personal opinion, they’re not really expensive in the headphone world. Yeah, if you’re looking at the MX4 sort of price bracket, they could be considered pricey at first glance. But they’re a damn sight better built, in my humble opinion.






I can definitely relate to that. Somehow I managed to marry a woman who doesn’t like noise. Really doesn’t like noise. I’m banned from having the floor standers I love in the lounge. Too loud apparently and they don’t ‘fit in’... her sodding ornament cabinets do somehow.

I’ve just finished her craft room, next door to my office. And as she’s working from home, she’s in there with a wee office setup. Me? Well I’ve been sodding banished because the music from my office is too loud if she’s speaking to customers. So at the moment, I’m working in the lounge. That’s part of why I’ve orderd the APM, I think they’ll be the best fit for working in my office, without having my HiFi blaring.

I can hear people thinking, why not use your wired cans, or one of your many wireless sets? Simple, I need the flexibility to move around while I’m working, so wired ones are out. And as I mentioned earlier, none of my wireless cans have good enough transparency for me to hear my surroundings well enough. The APP are almost good enough with the transparency adjustments. But it has too much of an effect on the audio quality for my liking. Not to mention their battery life is far too short for a working day. I always have music playing, it’s one of my passions and as an ex-roadie, not having music playing just seems wrong

I’m assuming that’s due to them only having two outward facing microphones, and me pushing them beyond what they’re really capable of. I’d like to think that the APM, with six outward facing microphones can do better.

I think you’ll be happy with the performance of the APM and their transparency mode - it does minimal to lessen the quality of the sound, but the clarity is so far unmatched, from my comparisons.

Everything is a bit of a trade off... that’s just how things work. I do believe that we’ll see advances in battery tech and computational audio that will push devices like these further, but you’ll still come to a point of diminishing returns in relation to price, size, and weight eventually. Bigger, better sounding drivers will need space, and will weigh something. Wireless cans require batteries. So you can have great sounding wireless cans that weigh 3 lbs and have you looking like a damn Decepticon, or more inconspicuous headphones that may “sacrifice” a bit on the build quality, soundstage and battery life. Apple has hit a sweet spot here, I think, but (more importantly) hopefully has prodded other manufacturers to doing the same.

Hope you enjoy yours when you get them... I think you will!

 

[BaddAdvice]

Another day working from the home office with Transparency mode and this solution just works really well for my situation. Returned the XM4s today.

 

[Enygmatic]

Another day working from the home office with Transparency mode and this solution just works really well for my situation. Returned the XM4s today.

Yeah, Apple’s implementation here is scary good. I compare it to thefirst time I experienced Bose NC headphones back in the day - others “had” the feature, but theirs was game-changing.

Enjoy!

 

[Islandz]

How comfortable is wearing APM and laying on your side in bed? What about doing this for large amounts of time?
Which wireless noise canceling headphone do you find most comfortable in this use case? I haven’t seen this discussed anywhere. Thank you.

 

[BaddAdvice]

How comfortable is wearing APM and laying on your side in bed? What about doing this for large amounts of time?
Which wireless noise canceling headphone do you find most comfortable in this use case? I haven’t seen this discussed anywhere. Thank you.

I would think any over the ear headphone would be pretty uncomfortable in that situation, right?

 

[Enygmatic]

How comfortable is wearing APM and laying on your side in bed? What about doing this for large amounts of time?
Which wireless noise canceling headphone do you find most comfortable in this use case? I haven’t seen this discussed anywhere. Thank you.

It’s... doable, but these are pretty hefty. I don’t have a weak neck, but lying in that position now as I type - can definitely feel the weight shift.
Most comfortable in that position would be the AirPods Pro (or any buds), while offering great sound and ANC/Transparency. As far as over-ear, probably the QC35ii, due to weight and overall comfort.

 

[jab234]

I posted this in another thread but curious to see if you guys think this song sounds better with XM4s or APMs. I find that the XM4s with EQ (like bright) sound much sharper than the Airpods Max out of box. Don't use the accommodations on the APMs. I'm curious to see what you think. It sounds muddy with the APMs to me and CRISP with the XM4s- esp starting around the 2:40 mark.

 

[doolar]

We’ve all heard the saying “the best camera is the one you have with you”, as a headphone enthusiast I believe it applies to cans as well. I can’t bring my best gear on a plane, or outside for that matter.

I’m waiting for the APM’s to be delivered, truly appreciate this thread. I have APP’s and for mobile listening also the Sennheiser Momentum AEBT 2 cans that I’ve enjoyed for years travelling and at home too. Back when I bought them I found them to suit me the best out of all ANC headphones out there. Obviously things have moved on, but they’re still quite good, and works very well wired to my computer (the battery is at the end of its life, I was quoted €50 to replace the battery with Sennheiser).

Anyways, I’m hoping that the APM’s will fit the bill and become my ”best headphones I have with me”, together with the APP’s, retiring the Senns to computer duty at the office.

 

[Enygmatic]

I posted this in another thread but curious to see if you guys think this song sounds better with XM4s or APMs. I find that the XM4s with EQ (like bright) sound much sharper than the Airpods Max out of box. Don't use the accommodations on the APMs. I'm curious to see what you think. It sounds muddy with the APMs to me and CRISP with the XM4s- esp starting around the 2:40 mark.

Interesting track. I’m always amazed at people’s different tastes - this seems like an awesome track to use for headphone testing as well. (incidentally, I really love using “Birdland” from Quincy Jones’ Back On the Block album)

Comparing the XM4s with EQ settings tweaked vs. APM out of the box seems a bit odd, but they do boost the mids and highs a bit, which (could) be more audibly pleasing - particularly on a track like this. Easy enough to replicate using the Accommodation settings (Bright > Low or Med); again, I don’t touch the EQ settings in the actual Music app. Volume aside, they sound similar with a bit more in the lows on the M4s. Max volume I get a tad bit of distortion around that 2:38 mark though... stop down the volume a bit and it’s great. The EQ definitely helps them pull a bit more from the track than just out of the box.

 

[Enygmatic]

We’ve all heard the saying “the best camera is the one you have with you”, as a headphone enthusiast I believe it applies to cans as well. I can’t bring my best gear on a plane, or outside for that matter.

I’m waiting for the APM’s to be delivered, truly appreciate this thread. I have APP’s and for mobile listening also the Sennheiser Momentum AEBT 2 cans that I’ve enjoyed for years travelling and at home too. Back when I bought them I found them to suit me the best out of all ANC headphones out there. Obviously things have moved on, but they’re still quite good, and works very well wired to my computer (the battery is at the end of its life, I was quoted €50 to replace the battery with Sennheiser).

Anyways, I’m hoping that the APM’s will fit the bill and become my ”best headphones I have with me”, together with the APP’s, retiring the Senns to computer duty at the office.

Agreed

As an audio “enthusiast”, there’s a bit more flexibility I’d love to see from Apple in the audio space - particularly toward these headphones. But let’s be real: you know Apple will always prioritize their ecosystem, and they should. These are AWESOME for that.

For me, if I’m out and about, I’ll grab my APM and APP now. Since my primary phone is my iPhone, that makes the most sense. If I’m at home, just listening to music around the house, I still grab my H95s - I just prefer the sound profile a bit. They have offer a bit better separation with the same absence of distortion - at even higher volume. ANC and Transparency mode are good, but not to the phenomenal levels of the APM.

If I’m in my listening room, I’m not using wireless headphones either way. If I want the best overall WIRELESS experience, most of the time for me it’s now my APM.

 

[jab234]

Interesting track. I’m always amazed at people’s different tastes - this seems like an awesome track to use for headphone testing as well. (incidentally, I really love using “Birdland” from Quincy Jones’ Back On the Block album)

Comparing the XM4s with EQ settings tweaked vs. APM out of the box seems a bit odd, but they do boost the mids and highs a bit, which (could) be more audibly pleasing - particularly on a track like this. Easy enough to replicate using the Accommodation settings (Bright > Low or Med); again, I don’t touch the EQ settings in the actual Music app. Volume aside, they sound similar with a bit more in the lows on the M4s. Max volume I get a tad bit of distortion around that 2:38 mark though... stop down the volume a bit and it’s great. The EQ definitely helps them pull a bit more from the track than just out of the box.

Ahh interesting. I asked for accommodations off bc most of my use will be wired with PC. So the sound I get will be the out of box sound as the settings won't cross over :/ With accommodations on, they sound great and pretty close to the XM4s to me (classical music sounds heaps better with APMs but I mainly listen to bass heavy music). I'm been using these settings on the XM4s and they sound amazing which is a big plus. Still have some time left before I return one of them.

https://imgur.com/i2VY8qt

 

[Enygmatic]

Ahh interesting. I asked for accommodations off bc most of my use will be wired with PC. So the sound I get will be the out of box sound as the settings won't cross over :/ With accommodations on, they sound great and pretty close to the XM4s to me (classical music sounds heaps better with APMs but I mainly listen to bass heavy music). I'm been using these settings on the XM4s and they sound amazing which is a big plus. Still have some time left before I return one of them.

https://imgur.com/i2VY8qt

If you’re really into bass, the M4s are great - I’d also throw the SkullCandy Krushers in the mix, or even Beats Wireless Studio 3 (M4 inarguably the most versatile of those 3, sound-wise and features such as ANC).

 

[JasonHB]

@Enygmatic What are you using as source material for your listening. You mention that you are an audio enthusiast and I would be very interested to know what streaming service you use, for example.

I only ask as 1) a matter of interest, always like to understand where people are coming from and their experience and 2) what your thoughts are on the different quality of sources and differentials between streaming services.

Seeing a lot of people bemoaning the lack of a hi-res supported codec for APM’s and how that prevents them from being able to hear the differences between hi-res streaming services and Apple, or even god forbid, Spotify.

This is not my experience however. I use Apple Music and Qobuz Studio (not available in a lot of countries, but essentially a slightly better version of Tidal HiFi but uses uncompressed FLAC as opposed to MQA). I can hear a very clear difference between the 2, even though people claim that it is not theoretically possible.

Just another aspect of our hobby

Jason

 

[Enygmatic]

@Enygmatic What are you using as source material for your listening. You mention that you are an audio enthusiast and I would be very interested to know what streaming service you use, for example.

I only ask as 1) a matter of interest, always like to understand where people are coming from and their experience and 2) what your thoughts are on the different quality of sources and differentials between streaming services.

Seeing a lot of people bemoaning the lack of a hi-res supported codec for APM’s and how that prevents them from being able to hear the differences between hi-res streaming services and Apple, or even god forbid, Spotify.

This is not my experience however. I use Apple Music and Qobuz Studio (not available in a lot of countries, but essentially a slightly better version of Tidal HiFi but uses uncompressed FLAC as opposed to MQA). I can hear a very clear difference between the 2, even though people claim that it is not theoretically possible.

Just another aspect of our hobby

Jason

I’m assuming you’re asking about my streaming sources, the primary use case (for me) with wireless cans? I use Apple Music, Qobuz, and Amazon Music HD. I’ll have to try Tidal one of these days.

The APM appear to perform quite a bit of computational magic in regard to taking standard AAC files and maximizing quality, which is why there’s such a night and day difference in many cases between these headphones and most of the standard competition. It’s very impressive, what Apple has been able to accomplish here with this first attempt. Having said that, there is still the undeniable reality that wired headphones are necessary to reap most of the tangible benefits with the “lossless audio” services, especially with ‘prior’ Bluetooth headphones.

I don’t believe that “I” hear any benefits from the HD streaming services while listening via Bluetooth, but YMMV; what I DO hear - with the Max - is (to my ear) superior DSP compared to, say, the Sony M4s or the Bose NC700. Then again, I have extremely particular listening habits, and I’m big on “the right tool for the job”.

Comparing what I’ve heard, both wired and wireless, as well as through more substantial gear, I’d say I’m pretty happy with Qobuz’s offerings. Amazon Music HD kinda came out of nowhere and had a pretty strong library of hi-res tracks. Apple Music is for convenience while on the go, and really highlights the strength of the APM’s onboard processing.

The Max and the H95, for me, are the least compromising (re: sound) wireless headphones you can buy right now.

 

[rumz]

Do you use EQ at all on the H95 or do you leave it on the manufacturer's recommended "Optimal" setting? I'm curious since Apple doesn't do any kind of customizable EQ and I've always found their "presets" to be... unusable.

Also find it interesting that the H95 are louder than the APM. I know when reading H95 impressions on head-fi I heard a range of comments about their volume-- I'm guessing it is just a matter of one's own hearing sensitivity. I tend to like to listen to music at a higher volume than average, I guess-- there are some types of music where I max the volume and it's barely reaching the level I want. So it's not lacking for me, but it's closer than I'd like Does make me wonder if the APM would end up a tad quiet for my tastes. (Only one way to know for sure I guess, heh.)

(I picked up some H95 when they were released. I just haven't listened to the APM yet.)

 

[Enygmatic]

Do you use EQ at all on the H95 or do you leave it on the manufacturer's recommended "Optimal" setting? I'm curious since Apple doesn't do any kind of customizable EQ and I've always found their "presets" to be... unusable.

Also find it interesting that the H95 are louder than the APM. I know when reading H95 impressions on head-fi I heard a range of comments about their volume-- I'm guessing it is just a matter of one's own hearing sensitivity. I tend to like to listen to music at a higher volume than average, I guess-- there are some types of music where I max the volume and it's barely reaching the level I want. So it's not lacking for me, but it's closer than I'd like Does make me wonder if the APM would end up a tad quiet for my tastes. (Only one way to know for sure I guess, heh.)

(I picked up some H95 when they were released. I just haven't listened to the APM yet.)

I personally tend to keep headphones on their “general” setting... I don’t like presets at all, really. I’ve played around with the EQ (as well as Apple’s in the Music settings) for awhile, but always go back to default.

As for volume, yes - the H95 get a tad louder. Both are loud enough, though I’ve found more times with the APM where I wished it got just a tad bit louder. Still, I’ll take zero distortion any day. And the superior ANC does lessen the “need” to have them as loud as some other headphones.

 

[JasonHB]

I personally tend to keep headphones on their “general” setting... I don’t like presets at all, really. I’ve played around with the EQ (as well as Apple’s in the Music settings) for awhile, but always go back to default.

As for volume, yes - the H95 get a tad louder. Both are loud enough, though I’ve found more times with the APM where I wished it got just a tad bit louder. Still, I’ll take zero distortion any day. And the superior ANC does lessen the “need” to have them as loud as some other headphones.

I am sure that you have probably already tried this or are doing it already, but I have noticed that the APM’s do sound better without ANC or Transparency mode switched on.

For serious listening, and for when there is no requirement for ANC, I have found this to be a real benefit. No surprise really, but they sound more open and airy, better all round really.

Just thought that I would mention it

Jason

 

[jterp7]

interesting. From memory the APP were clearly superior in anc since the eq was tied together with it. I have not tried other modes really with the max yet

 

[kirk.vino]

I’m not hearing any difference with ANC on/off, and I have very sensitive ears. It might be related to the fact that some react to some sort of the cabin pressure with ANC on, which would subjectively impact the listening experience as well.