AMA - AirPods Max, from a normal guy who really appreciates audio quality... *gasp*

[JasonHB]

I’m not hearing any difference with ANC on/off, and I have very sensitive ears. It might be related to the fact that some react to some sort of the cabin pressure with ANC on, which would subjectively impact the listening experience as well.

I had terrible pressure with ANC on the Sony XM3’s and XM4’s that I had.

I don’t get any of it at all with the APM’s, in fact I was staggered that the ANC was so effective with no pressure at all.

They definitely sound better to me with the ANC and Transparency turned off.

Jason

 

[ouimetnick]

The H95's are superior in every way. They are built better, far more comfortable, have more premium materials, and sound better. They also come with a superior set of controls (including an off button!). They are lighter as well and don't crush your head with their clamping force. The only edge I'd give to the APM is the transparency mode, and that's just slightly as the H95 transparency mode is stellar as is the ANC. They also come with a killer case and are foldable. Yes they are expensive, but after using both the APM and the H95s there really isn't a comparison here unless someone is just being an overly excited Apple fan. And don't get me wrong, the APM are great. But the H95's are in a different league, as they should be for what they cost.

But do the H95 really compete with the APM or vice versa? I had that question with the APM being compared to the Sony WH-1000XM4, BOSE 700 and QC35II, but I think the Sony, Bose and Apple should be in the same category. The $200 Apple premium gets you superior build quality, automatic switching and that’s it. The Bose, Sony and Apple APM seem more mainstream than the higher end B&O H95. At $800 I’d be tempted to put them in a class with other $700-$800+ headphones.

I realize that is basically what you are suggesting, but my question is how many people are cross shopping between the B&O H95 and the cheaper APM, Sony, Bose, etc?

 

[TrueBlou]

We’ve all heard the saying “the best camera is the one you have with you”, as a headphone enthusiast I believe it applies to cans as well. I can’t bring my best gear on a plane, or outside for that matter.

I’m waiting for the APM’s to be delivered, truly appreciate this thread. I have APP’s and for mobile listening also the Sennheiser Momentum AEBT 2 cans that I’ve enjoyed for years travelling and at home too. Back when I bought them I found them to suit me the best out of all ANC headphones out there. Obviously things have moved on, but they’re still quite good, and works very well wired to my computer (the battery is at the end of its life, I was quoted €50 to replace the battery with Sennheiser).

Anyways, I’m hoping that the APM’s will fit the bill and become my ”best headphones I have with me”, together with the APP’s, retiring the Senns to computer duty at the office.

Never a truer word said. Even the worst headphones are better than no headphones when you need them. I’d much rather be listening to music than not and if headphones are what I need to do that at any point, I’ll happily use whatever I can get my hands on.

I’ve been more impressed with the APM than I expected to be. I’ve even been hearing things in music that I’ve not heard from any other wireless cans I’ve had. To the point where yesterday, when I was outside, I actually turned around because I wondered what a noise was.

It’s taken me a few days to realise they probably sound so good, in part because of all of the processing they do. Which had me questioning my more typical outlook on headphones.
Ultimately, I’ve decided an enjoyable sound is an enjoyable sound. Even if there’s digital trickery involved in producing it, what really matters to me after all, is what I hear..... the audiophile community will strike me off for that statement

My early concern regarding transparency has also proven to be unwarranted. Obviously at full whack you’re not going to hear much of the outside world. But at my normal listening levels while I work, I’ve been able to hear the dog coming downstairs, even before she gets to the whinging to be let out stage. Similarly I’ve not missed any deliveries at the door, and the wife’s yet to sneak up on me - despite her best efforts

They’re still breaking in, but even at this point I’m happy with the sound and the comfort. They fit perfectly over my ears, so there’s no pinching or pressure on my lobes at all, even the legs of my glasses don’t seem to get pressed against me the way many of my headphones do. I dare say it will come down to the shape of your head, but they suit mine very well indeed.

Thank you again to the people who offered advice and answered my questions.


*Edit

I’ve just had my first wired listening session using my DAC and headphone amplifier. Of course I’ve bought the APM primarily for their wireless audio capabilities and that’s how they’ll be used 99% of the time, but blimey, they sound bloody good wired with the amp and DAC.

 

[doolar]

Never a truer word said. Even the worst headphones are better than no headphones when you need them. I’d much rather be listening to music than not and if headphones are what I need to do that at any point, I’ll happily use whatever I can get my hands on.

I’ve been more impressed with the APM than I expected to be. I’ve even been hearing things in music that I’ve not heard from any other wireless cans I’ve had. To the point where yesterday, when I was outside, I actually turned around because I wondered what a noise was.

It’s taken me a few days to realise they probably sound so good, in part because of all of the processing they do. Which had me questioning my more typical outlook on headphones.
Ultimately, I’ve decided an enjoyable sound is an enjoyable sound. Even if there’s digital trickery involved in producing it, what really matters to me after all, is what I hear..... the audiophile community will strike me off for that statement

My early concern regarding transparency has also proven to be unwarranted. Obviously at full whack you’re not going to hear much of the outside world. But at my normal listening levels while I work, I’ve been able to hear the dog coming downstairs, even before she gets to the whinging to be let out stage. Similarly I’ve not missed any deliveries at the door, and the wife’s yet to sneak up on me - despite her best efforts

They’re still breaking in, but even at this point I’m happy with the sound and the comfort. They fit perfectly over my ears, so there’s no pinching or pressure on my lobes at all, even the legs of my glasses don’t seem to get pressed against me the way many of my headphones do. I dare say it will come down to the shape of your head, but they suit mine very well indeed.

Thank you again to the people who offered advice and answered my questions.


*Edit

I’ve just had my first wired listening session using my DAC and headphone amplifier. Of course I’ve bought the APM primarily for their wireless audio capabilities and that’s how they’ll be used 99% of the time, but blimey, they sound bloody good wired with the amp and DAC.

Any true audiophile will agree with this. Most of my friends and family would probably describe me as an audiophile, but I know I’m not. Just a headphone enthusiast. But I’ve learned a thing or two about sound, value, experience and what to expect from my money. The last decade the market is just bombarded by equipment that I could only dream about before.

If someone thinks that computational audio is a bad thing trying to solve a limitation in bandwidth, well then that someone can take their horse and carriage home and play the instruments themselves, I mean that’s the purest sound right? Or, lets enjoy science and the work that people put into these things.

Good sound is good sound. I will not be surprised if the APM will deliver the best overall package for my mobile wireless listening. And if they don’t, I won’t say they’re useless and overpriced, they were just not for me. Simples IMO.

Cheers for a great post @TrueBlou

 

[Enygmatic]

I’m not hearing any difference with ANC on/off, and I have very sensitive ears. It might be related to the fact that some react to some sort of the cabin pressure with ANC on, which would subjectively impact the listening experience as well.

Yes, Apple did a supremely good job of stabilizing and equalling out the sound across all modes (ANC, Transparency, and Off). Easily the best across all modes I’ve ever heard on headphones with these settings. I find the sound isolation to be pretty good in the Off setting... then almost unsettling with ANC on - it’s that good. It can’t be overstated how well Apple’s chips adjust and adapt in real time.

 

[Enygmatic]

Update on cup durability after about 2 months: the poorly-planned Smart Case/Bra definitely aids in banging them together - particularly during removal from said case/bra.

Not a deal-breaker, however if I were to rate these headphones on a traditional 1-5 scale, they’d lose a star just for this. Damage to a (babied) device due to questionable design and materials choices, not neglect or abuse = no bueno.

 

[Enygmatic]

But do the H95 really compete with the APM or vice versa? I had that question with the APM being compared to the Sony WH-1000XM4, BOSE 700 and QC35II, but I think the Sony, Bose and Apple should be in the same category. The $200 Apple premium gets you superior build quality, automatic switching and that’s it. The Bose, Sony and Apple APM seem more mainstream than the higher end B&O H95. At $800 I’d be tempted to put them in a class with other $700-$800+ headphones.

I realize that is basically what you are suggesting, but my question is how many people are cross shopping between the B&O H95 and the cheaper APM, Sony, Bose, etc?

Subjectivity is lost on some around here lol, but to answer your question - and from someone who owns both pairs that you are asking about - no, the H95s are not “superior in every way”. Yes, the APM actually do compare favorably with them. A lot of headphones and music in general will be preferential.

The sound stage and frequency response is extremely similar between the two… the differences in digital processing will be subjective. As is comfort. I personally prefer the sound from the H95 for a good bit of what I listen to if I’m wandering around the house, however Transparency Mode and ANC are considerably better on the APM, making them a superior choice (for me) when going… anywhere, really. Again, I have both pairs and many others, so am able to compare directly at my discretion. The average consumer may not, and now has an awesome (and potentially more versatile, if heavy into the Apple ecosystem) headphone product that offers rather sublime audio, good comfort (ehh…), premium material (comes with drawbacks), brilliant and powerful computational backend, and the promise of software improvements over time.

 

[rumz]

There really is a lot to like about the AirPods Max— the design flaw you mentioned aside (that is unfortunate), there’s something about them that feels easy to just grab them and put them on, or take them off and slide them into their case. They also seem to stay in place better when I’m walking around doing things, where the H95 do slide around a bit if I bend forward, etc. I actually find them a bit more comfortable than the H95 To wear. The H95 are a bit more traditional in terms of physical form, I guess. I’m not quite able to put into words how I somehow find the APM pleasant to handle— maybe it’s just me.

I’ve been enjoying their sound as well— though I think what kind of music you listen to might determine which you enjoy more. If I hadn’t bought the H95 first, I would probably be completely content with the APM. I just started listening to the APM this week, and last night was the first time I listened to something that felt inferior on the APM— it was a men’s chorus piece with orchestra, and the way I would describe the difference between headphones is that the H95 Seemed to present the music in a way that the different parts of the music (voices, various instruments) sounded more physically distinct from one another, more “three-dimensional”, if you will. Where with the APM they seemed to all be coming from the same point in space.

My supposition is that this is largely a matter of DSP, no? Both of these sets of headphones are doing the processing at the headphone level and probably don’t differ a ton in terms of the physical drivers and such. Like, I wondered if a firmware update could change the sound signature of the APM (or I suppose the H95 for that matter). I don’t know how much tuning Apple will do but it does make me wonder if they can make improvements solely with software. (Whether they would, and to what degree, is another subject).

Either way... I will probably reach for the H95 when I want to sit and focus on music (in certain genres at least); APM have been great for everything outside of that. If I had the H95 sound coming from the APM I’d be happy with just one set of headphones— at least that is my initial impression. Definitely lots more listening still to be done with each

 

[memo90061]

Hmm. I've been thinking about these headphones, but I feel like they're out of reach for now because of the price. I currently have Sony MDR 1000x and like them, but I want to upgrade. Don't know if I should save up for the AirPods Max or maybe the 1000xm3? or m4? I'm not an audiphile, but do like to listen to high quality files. Don't know if I can listen to the difference between lossless and a 320kbps mp3, but can hear the difference if it's lower than 320.

I mostly listen to pop music in English and Spanish; for example, No Doubt, Gwen Stefani, Shakira, Belanova, Selena Gomez, Britney Spears, etc. When I listen to music I tend to keep the EQ flat. I do like a little bass though and clear vocals. I like to listen to different tracks on that single music file. I like listening to the small details, don't know if that makes sense. I do like to listen to loud music, and from what I read in this thread the AirPods Max aren't that loud?

I would use the headphones when going out for a walk at the beach, for the gym, and sometimes while in bed when listening to music. Any recommendations? It could be other headphones that I didn't mention.

Thank you so much!

 

[Tdevilsg]

Hmm. I've been thinking about these headphones, but I feel like they're out of reach for now because of the price. I currently have Sony MDR 1000x and like them, but I want to upgrade. Don't know if I should save up for the AirPods Max or maybe the 1000xm3? or m4? I'm not an audiphile, but do like to listen to high quality files. Don't know if I can listen to the difference between lossless and a 320kbps mp3, but can hear the difference if it's lower than 320.

I mostly listen to pop music in English and Spanish; for example, No Doubt, Gwen Stefani, Shakira, Belanova, Selena Gomez, Britney Spears, etc. When I listen to music I tend to keep the EQ flat. I do like a little bass though and clear vocals. I like to listen to different tracks on that single music file. I like listening to the small details, don't know if that makes sense. I do like to listen to loud music, and from what I read in this thread the AirPods Max aren't that loud?

I would use the headphones when going out for a walk at the beach, for the gym, and sometimes while in bed when listening to music. Any recommendations? It could be other headphones that I didn't mention.

Thank you so much!

Honestly I don't find the airpod max to be particularly mobile. And they definitely aren't gym headphones for sure. I'd stick to Airpods / Pro for more mobile headphones personally.

 

[memo90061]

Honestly I don't find the airpod max to be particularly mobile. And they definitely aren't gym headphones for sure. I'd stick to Airpods / Pro for more mobile headphones personally.

Thank you for the response. I don't like earphones, and prefer headphones. Are there any headphones you recommend?

 

[Tdevilsg]

Thank you for the response. I don't like earphones, and prefer headphones. Are there any headphones you recommend?

You're welcome! I've heard great things about the Sony XM4's, maybe give them a try? They are on sale on Amazon now for 280, not too bad. On ebay you can get them for low 200s.

 

[BaddAdvice]

Thank you for the response. I don't like earphones, and prefer headphones. Are there any headphones you recommend?

Another vote for the XM4s, especially considering the music you listen to. They’re a little muddy sounding out of the box, but you can EQ them via the app and get the sound fairly neutral. The bass is low and punchy and you can dial it up or down to your liking. Decent set of cans for the money.

 

[tiptongrange]

Does it make any difference on whether the APM is in the case or out of the case when it's plugged in for charging? I know that it goes into low power mode quicker when in the case when it's not plugged in, but if I hang it on a headphone stand and plug it in when not in use, does it matter whether or not it is in the case?

 

[Tdevilsg]

Does it make any difference on whether the APM is in the case or out of the case when it's plugged in for charging? I know that it goes into low power mode quicker when in the case when it's not plugged in, but if I hang it on a headphone stand and plug it in when not in use, does it matter whether or not it is in the case?

No I don't think it matters when its charging.

 

[Enygmatic]

Hmm. I've been thinking about these headphones, but I feel like they're out of reach for now because of the price. I currently have Sony MDR 1000x and like them, but I want to upgrade. Don't know if I should save up for the AirPods Max or maybe the 1000xm3? or m4? I'm not an audiphile, but do like to listen to high quality files. Don't know if I can listen to the difference between lossless and a 320kbps mp3, but can hear the difference if it's lower than 320.

I mostly listen to pop music in English and Spanish; for example, No Doubt, Gwen Stefani, Shakira, Belanova, Selena Gomez, Britney Spears, etc. When I listen to music I tend to keep the EQ flat. I do like a little bass though and clear vocals. I like to listen to different tracks on that single music file. I like listening to the small details, don't know if that makes sense. I do like to listen to loud music, and from what I read in this thread the AirPods Max aren't that loud?

I would use the headphones when going out for a walk at the beach, for the gym, and sometimes while in bed when listening to music. Any recommendations? It could be other headphones that I didn't mention.

Thank you so much!

I think you would enjoy the sound stage of the AirPods Max very much; having said that, for “sporty” portability (and since you’re not a fan of earbuds), I think you’d enjoy the M4 (or M3 if you can find them, and aren’t interested in the *modest ANC improvement. I don’t personally find the APM to be terribly uncomfortable, but they definitely lose out here to the Sony and especially Bose. You do give up a pretty significant chunk of sound quality and premium “feel” with either of those two options, though. I’d say these would be your best options that offer good bass response and any semblance of mid/high separation and clarity (without jumping a few levels in cost).

Hope that helps!

 

[Paninnguaq]

and the promise of software improvements over time.

I see people keep mentioning this. Is there any documentation from Apple to support this, or are people just assuming that there will be software updates? And by software updates I hope people don’t mean just firmware updates like the AirPods Pro got that many people say made next to no difference at best, and a negative difference at worst (in the form of worse ANC).

 

[Enygmatic]

I see people keep mentioning this. Is there any documentation from Apple to support this, or are people just assuming that there will be software updates? And by software updates I hope people don’t mean just firmware updates like the AirPods Pro got that many people say made next to no difference at best, and a negative difference at worst (in the form of worse ANC).

“Promise” meaning: [something that has the effect of] an express assurance; indication of what may be expected…

Not the ‘pinky-swear’ kind.

And yes, firmware updates that generally (usually) improve performance and add features - like how Spatial Audio came about for the AirPods Pro last year (in conjunction with iOS). Is it always perfect for everyone - especially now with people looking for issues? No. The “promise” is there, with the chipset, to improve these beyond the product they are today.

 

[Abazigal]

I see people keep mentioning this. Is there any documentation from Apple to support this, or are people just assuming that there will be software updates? And by software updates I hope people don’t mean just firmware updates like the AirPods Pro got that many people say made next to no difference at best, and a negative difference at worst (in the form of worse ANC).

In the very least, I hope Apple is taking notes and will eventually release a fix for the evidently poor power management features in the AirPods max.

 

[Tdevilsg]

First, I want to say thanks for sharing all of your opinions and perspective on this! For all of the general backlash that the APMs have gotten in regards to pricing, the reality is they are probably very close to being priced correctly, its just most people are comparing them to the XM4 or Bose QC which to me aren't the proper comparisons. Yes they are more expensive, but they absolutely offer more in sound quality and features.

To me when it comes to wireless headphones they should be measured against the $800 dollar Beoplay H95.

That being said...I got a great deal on these APMs for $425 bucks. What I love about them are the sound quality (except the low-mid level treble dip which I do find slightly lacking...), the looks and the instant connectivity. But I really do not love the comfort with them (they feel hot on the ears and the material feels itchy to me) and they are very heavy. I'd love to hear more about your comparison to the H95. For what would essentially be twice the price for me, I know its a bit of a loaded question, but do you think its worth it? I would sell the APM and get a pair of H95 instead. Mind you I will be using these primarily with my Iphone X which is another factor, that apple connectivity. My main question, are the H95 that more comfortable with the lamb skin leather vs the memory cushions on the APM? What is the clamping force like? Do they both feel similarly heavy? Are the mid-treble "problems" of the APM rectified on the H95. Is the sound quality that much better to justify the price difference? I don't use active noise cancelling at all, but I do want the most comfortable and best sounding headphones. Thanks!

 

[Paninnguaq]

I have not used the H95, but I would assume that if the fabric cushions of the AirPods max make one‘s ears hot, then the H95 leather would fare worse on that front. Genuine leather is breathable, but nowhere near as much as fabric. Breathability is a major reason for why the clothing we wear directly on our skin is fabric and not leather.

My thinking is that if the cushions make one‘s ears so hot and uncomfortable that the experience of wearing them is not tolerable for long periods, then any slightly improved sound quality becomes a moot point.

The more I use my Max the more I come to appreciate Apple‘s thoughtful design choices. There’s no weight on the top of the head, the clamping force has greatly reduced with usage for me, and the fabric and memory foam of the earcups feel very unobtrusive on my skin.

 

[UKapple73]

For me, the APM are by far the most comfortable headphones I’ve ever used. I can watch a full movie and forget they are on. Actually these are great for movie watching - something about the bass and the clarity that makes it feel like you’re at the cinema and that’s without spatial audio!! I can’t do that even with in-ears normally. That combined with the sound quality make these a fantastic buy.
the only negative for me is the power management, losing 10% per day just isn’t on in my book.

 

[Enygmatic]

First, I want to say thanks for sharing all of your opinions and perspective on this! For all of the general backlash that the APMs have gotten in regards to pricing, the reality is they are probably very close to being priced correctly, its just most people are comparing them to the XM4 or Bose QC which to me aren't the proper comparisons. Yes they are more expensive, but they absolutely offer more in sound quality and features.

To me when it comes to wireless headphones they should be measured against the $800 dollar Beoplay H95.

That being said...I got a great deal on these APMs for $425 bucks. What I love about them are the sound quality (except the low-mid level treble dip which I do find slightly lacking...), the looks and the instant connectivity. But I really do not love the comfort with them (they feel hot on the ears and the material feels itchy to me) and they are very heavy. I'd love to hear more about your comparison to the H95. For what would essentially be twice the price for me, I know its a bit of a loaded question, but do you think its worth it? I would sell the APM and get a pair of H95 instead. Mind you I will be using these primarily with my Iphone X which is another factor, that apple connectivity. My main question, are the H95 that more comfortable with the lamb skin leather vs the memory cushions on the APM? What is the clamping force like? Do they both feel similarly heavy? Are the mid-treble "problems" of the APM rectified on the H95. Is the sound quality that much better to justify the price difference? I don't use active noise cancelling at all, but I do want the most comfortable and best sounding headphones. Thanks!

“Is it worth it”… that’s the sticky part with all of this. For me, the jump from, say, the NC700 or XM4 to the AirPods Max is bigger than the jump from the AirPods Max to the H95. Comfort will be subjective - I personally don’t have a problem with the clamping of the AirPods Max; objectively, the clamping force is less pronounced with the H95. The folding mechanics are superior (for portability/storage) on the H95. I prefer the feel of the leather cups against my face/skin, however the AirPods Max have remained cooler longer, in my testing (here in the Texas warmth and humidity).

The sound stages are remarkably similar, although I give the slight edge to the H95. I prefer the BeoPlay DSP a bit to Apple’s. Thing is, I feel there is much more ceiling room for Apple to improve the AirPods Max; the H95 can get updates, I suppose, however I don’t see “new features” being a thing. If you don’t use ANC or Transparency mode, then I’m comfortable saying that the H95 are the better headphone for most cases… now, another $300 better? You’d have to decide that for yourself. With the rise of the AirPods Max and their price point, it can be argued that the H95 would be better priced at a $599-$649 level (if you believe the AirPods Max are priced appropriately).

If I could only keep one of these two, I’d keep the AirPods Max - they’re the superior travel option as far as features for me (awesome ANC and Transparency are invaluable to me).

 

[Tdevilsg]

“Is it worth it”… that’s the sticky part with all of this. For me, the jump from, say, the NC700 or XM4 to the AirPods Max is bigger than the jump from the AirPods Max to the H95. Comfort will be subjective - I personally don’t have a problem with the clamping of the AirPods Max; objectively, the clamping force is less pronounced with the H95. The folding mechanics are superior (for portability/storage) on the H95. I prefer the feel of the leather cups against my face/skin, however the AirPods Max have remained cooler longer, in my testing (here in the Texas warmth and humidity).

The sound stages are remarkably similar, although I give the slight edge to the H95. I prefer the BeoPlay DSP a bit to Apple’s. Thing is, I feel there is much more ceiling room for Apple to improve the AirPods Max; the H95 can get updates, I suppose, however I don’t see “new features” being a thing. If you don’t use ANC or Transparency mode, then I’m comfortable saying that the H95 are the better headphone for most cases… now, another $300 better? You’d have to decide that for yourself. With the rise of the AirPods Max and their price point, it can be argued that the H95 would be better priced at a $599-$649 level (if you believe the AirPods Max are priced appropriately).

If I could only keep one of these two, I’d keep the AirPods Max - they’re the superior travel option as far as features for me (awesome ANC and Transparency are invaluable to me).

Thanks for that. I think I'm going to just keep the Airpods Max. They get progressively more comfortable as the weeks progress, I don't know if it's just the headset breaking in or me getting used to them (or both). It sounds like the Airpods Max if not punch above their weight, at least punch around it. For another almost 400 bucks (price I got mine) it doesn't sound like there is enough there to warrant the additional money. And what you said about there being room for upgrade, I agree with. I'm hoping Apple tweaks the sound profile just slightly to adjust for that low mid treble range to round them out a bit, or at least gave us an eq option like any other high profile headphone offers.

 

[Deliro]

I got to admit I’m curious to try a pair. But being stores are closed it will have to wait. I’m not one of these habitual buy online and return people. These people actually hurt costs long term.

My neighbor has returned no less than 8 products in the last couple of months. From a new MBP, all 3 case AW6 case materials, iPad Air 4 to a TV. Didn’t keep any or replace it. Just wanted to try it. Like lots of these bottom of YouTube “reviewers”.

I suspect the APMs probably have a lot of folks returning them.