AMD Discussion

[koyoot]

You can use an nvidia gpu in a cmp, hence why there are thread about them...

Pascal Nvidia GPUs? Yes you can. In Windows. Which completely eradicates the point of Apple ecosystem here.

So why they would appear in this sub forum, eh? If they will be EVER available for Apple hardware in any way shape or form, then sure, move this thread, or remove it completely. Otherwise it has the same value, as Pascal Nvidia GPU threads in MP subform.

Case closed.

 

[tuxon86]

Pascal Nvidia GPUs? Yes you can. In Windows. Which completely eradicates the point of Apple ecosystem here.

So why they would appear in this sub forum, eh? If they will be EVER available for Apple hardware in any way shape or form, then sure, move this thread, or remove it completely. Otherwise it has the same value, as Pascal Nvidia GPU threads in MP subform.

Case closed.

You'll get web drivers for them soon enough, it took 6 month for the Maxwell ones... I get why shooting yourself in the foot, again, is embarassing for you, but the reality is, you can use an NVidia GPU in the MP but you can't, and there isn't any indication that you will, be able to use an AMD CPU in your MP...

 

[koyoot]

You'll get web drivers for them soon enough, it took 6 month for the Maxwell ones...

In the same way as in 6 months you will have Zen Apple computer.

If you will be able to ever use Pascal GPUs with any Mac Computer, fine, remove or move this thread. Otherwise it has exactly the same value as Pascal Nvidia GPUs.

 

[tuxon86]

In the same way as in 6 months you will have Zen Apple computer.

If you will be able to ever use Pascal GPUs with any Mac Computer, fine, remove or move this thread. Otherwise it has exactly the same value as Pascal Nvidia GPUs.

Can you post the link to the apple document saying that there is an AMD ZEN based MP in the work to be released in six month? BTW I didn't say we'll get pascal drivers in six month. You should pay more attention to what I write. Beside it's perfectly ok to run windows on a Mac. Plenty of Apple owner do just that and they get to enjoy their Pascal GPU in their MP today.

So I guess they don't have the same value as this thread then, would you admit?

 

[koyoot]

Polaris and Zen v1 will use 14 nm LPP process. But it appears that Zen v2 in upcoming time like in 12-18 months can use next gen 14 nm HP GloFo process. It is a mixture of FinFET and SOI/FD-SOI.

According to sources the mass production of 14 nm HP starts in july 2017. It is also interesting information in the context of next gen graphics GPUs.

 

[Mago]

AMD ZEN based MP

a year ago some blogs speculated Apple to introduce AMD Apu at iMac line, this could hapen soon next year (as long ZEN apu passed Apple HW quaiification).

A Zen Mac Pro may take longer, and is not unrealistic it to be based on single or dual Zen APU, but not next year, 2018 maybe.

 

[tuxon86]

a year ago some blogs speculated Apple to introduce AMD Apu at iMac line, this could hapen soon next year (as long ZEN apu passed Apple HW quaiification).

A Zen Mac Pro may take longer, and is not unrealistic it to be based on single or dual Zen APU, but not next year, 2018 maybe.

And you think that's trustworthy? There are blogs saying the world is flat and that all elected officials are in fact reptilians! Well ok, that second part may be true

Come on.... Not everything you read on the internet, especially on blogs, is true or worth our time. Unless you can produce something official from Apple...

 

[Zarniwoop]

Here're some clues, why I think Apple is making a custom SoC with AMD:

• Jim Keller. First, he was the designer of Apple's ARM SoC. Then he went to AMD to create Zen. (When it was designed, he went to Tesla and is Vice President of Autopilot Hardware Engineering. Quite a coincidence that too.)
  
• Apple became AMD dGPU only. Same time they released Metal, that is based on AMD's Mantle principles.
• With custom x86 SoC, Apple could double the Mac profit and same time keep the software compatibility.
• Making a hackintosh would became a lot more difficult thanks to custom Soc with DSP, ARM and other goodies.
• Apple would have more control over its own destiny, which is something it values highly.
• With Intel, full HSA is not possible (just with their iGPU), and therefore openCL 2.x and Metal will suffer from system latencies. Apple's ARM SoC's are HSA compatible already.
• Zen and Steve Jobs... ;-)

And you think that's trustworthy? There are blogs saying the world is flat and that all elected officials are in fact reptilians! Well ok, that second part may be true

Come on.... Not everything you read on the internet, especially on blogs, is true or worth our time. Unless you can produce something official from Apple...

So what do you do here at Macrumors then? Finding a truth? Sure there are a lot of nerdy topics here, but basically it is a rumor site. I'm sure you know, that there are no official news from Apple EVER before the launch / introduction of the product. Before that we have just rumors and speculations. If Apple would be open, there wouldn't be need for discussion about topic "Will there be a new Mac Pro in 2015/2016/ever?"

And most of us are not from the land of free, so many things are lost in translation. Like many debates where you accuse Koyoot as a liar, when I noticed already couple of pages before that both you're not understanding clearly what the other is writing. And the mess is ready. Go back and copy / paste here a quote where he said that "Mantle and DX 12 are using same code". You put those words into his mouth, and then started to call him liar.

 

[tuxon86]

Here're some clues, why I think Apple is making a custom SoC with AMD:

• Jim Keller. First, he was the designer of Apple's ARM SoC. Then he went to AMD to create Zen. (When it was designed, he went to Tesla and is Vice President of Autopilot Hardware Engineering. Quite a coincidence that too.)
  
• Apple became AMD dGPU only. Same time they released Metal, that is based on AMD's Mantle principles.
• With custom x86 SoC, Apple could double the Mac profit and same time keep the software compatibility.
• Making a hackintosh would became a lot more difficult thanks to custom Soc with DSP, ARM and other goodies.
• Apple would have more control over its own destiny, which is something it values highly.
• With Intel, full HSA is not possible (just with their iGPU), and therefore openCL 2.x and Metal will suffer from system latencies. Apple's ARM SoC's are HSA compatible already.
• Zen and Steve Jobs... ;-)

So what do you do here at Macrumors then? Finding a truth? Sure there are a lot of nerdy topics here, but basically it is a rumor site. I'm sure you know, that there are no official news from Apple EVER before the launch of the product. Before that we have just rumors and speculations. If Apple would be open, there wouldn't be need for discussion about topic "Will there be a new Mac Pro in 2015/2016/ever?"

And most of us are not from the land of free, so many things are lost in translation. Like many debates where you accuse Koyoot as a liar, when I noticed already couple of pages before that both you're not understanding clearly what the other is writing. And the mess is ready. Go back and copy / paste here a quote where he said that "Mantle and DX 12 are using same code". You put those words into his mouth, and then started to call him liar.

The rumors in macrumors is about the frontpage news, not the subforums...

And you're starting to sound as a sockpuppet always defending Koyoot. He's big enough to defend himself without your help. And for your information Koyoot does lie. He's been called on it many, many time by plenty of people around here. He also tries to pass himself as an insider and when called on it never, EVER, post any proof. So please spare me...

HSA is an ARM and AMD concept. In fact the HSA foundation was created by AMD, the competitor of Intel... Intel isn't even a member, so why would they support it and why do you think Intel isn't presently working on something similar of their own creation since their R&D budget dwarf the one AMD has?

 

[Mago]

The rumors in macrumors is about the frontpage news, not the subforums...

And you're starting to sound as a sockpuppet always defending Koyoot. He's big enough to defend himself without your help. And for your information Koyoot does lie. He's been called on it many, many time by plenty of people around here. He also tries to pass himself as an insider and when called on it never, EVER, post any proof. So please spare me...

HSA is an ARM and AMD concept. In fact the HSA foundation was created by AMD, the competitor of Intel... Intel isn't even a member, so why would they support it and why do you think Intel isn't presently working on something similar of their own creation since their R&D budget dwarf the one AMD has?

this was one:

http://wccftech.com/amd-making-custom-x86-soc-apple-imacs-2017-2018/

 

[koyoot]

The rumors in macrumors is about the frontpage news, not the subforums...

And you're starting to sound as a sockpuppet always defending Koyoot. He's big enough to defend himself without your help. And for your information Koyoot does lie. He's been called on it many, many time by plenty of people around here. He also tries to pass himself as an insider and when called on it never, EVER, post any proof. So please spare me...

HSA is an ARM and AMD concept. In fact the HSA foundation was created by AMD, the competitor of Intel... Intel isn't even a member, so why would they support it and why do you think Intel isn't presently working on something similar of their own creation since their R&D budget dwarf the one AMD has?

Great "knowledge" there. Yes, Intel is not part of HSA foundation. Because they have already their own solutions for unification of hardware. They do not need HSA. Does anyone else in the industry not need HSA, or would not benefit from it?

I have been caught lying? Where I pass myself as an Insider? Where information that I posted have not been true in some way, shape or form? It is your accusation of me.

Yes, I do know a lot of information, behind the scenes. 90% of what I have been writing is actually turning into reality, months after I write them: Mantle as base of APIs, shift in markets, focus on devices rather than computer parts, production costs of processes and its affects on markets, even simple analysis of Nvidia Pascal Architecture was spot-on by me, but I underestimated the core clocks. That Volta will be 2017 architecture from Nvidia, because of 10 nm process is discontinued. And no, nobody on this forum knew that before, despite Aiden claiming that it was logical. No, it was not, because previous generations of GPU architectures tend to be alive for 2 years. Not just 10 months.

Before you call someone a liar better substance this. You didn't. Who is the liar now? And because you cannot attack the message you attack the messenger. Again.

 

[lowendlinux]

Here're some clues, why I think Apple is making a custom SoC with AMD:

• Jim Keller. First, he was the designer of Apple's ARM SoC. Then he went to AMD to create Zen. (When it was designed, he went to Tesla and is Vice President of Autopilot Hardware Engineering. Quite a coincidence that too.)
  
• Apple became AMD dGPU only. Same time they released Metal, that is based on AMD's Mantle principles.
• With custom x86 SoC, Apple could double the Mac profit and same time keep the software compatibility.
• Making a hackintosh would became a lot more difficult thanks to custom Soc with DSP, ARM and other goodies.
• Apple would have more control over its own destiny, which is something it values highly.
• With Intel, full HSA is not possible (just with their iGPU), and therefore openCL 2.x and Metal will suffer from system latencies. Apple's ARM SoC's are HSA compatible already.
• Zen and Steve Jobs... ;-)

So what do you do here at Macrumors then? Finding a truth? Sure there are a lot of nerdy topics here, but basically it is a rumor site. I'm sure you know, that there are no official news from Apple EVER before the launch / introduction of the product. Before that we have just rumors and speculations. If Apple would be open, there wouldn't be need for discussion about topic "Will there be a new Mac Pro in 2015/2016/ever?"

And most of us are not from the land of free, so many things are lost in translation. Like many debates where you accuse Koyoot as a liar, when I noticed already couple of pages before that both you're not understanding clearly what the other is writing. And the mess is ready. Go back and copy / paste here a quote where he said that "Mantle and DX 12 are using same code". You put those words into his mouth, and then started to call him liar.

Thank you! I was going to say the same thing just much less nicely

 

[Stacc]

Nvidia graphics cards are still relevant to Apple hardware discussions. Historically Apple has shipped Nvidia GPUs in their macs and Nvidia has made drivers available for its GPUs the exception being the relatively new pascal based cards. Its likely they will continue to do this as they still post job openings for OS X software developers. They have good reason to maintain these drivers for compatibility with classic mac pros, use in external graphics chassis, and to have compatible drivers if Apple decides they want to use Nvidia GPUs again.

AMD processors in Apple's machines fall into the category of speculation. Thus far an AMD processor has never shipped in a mac. This is similar to the discussions of whether Apple will ship its own ARM processors in its Macs. There are valid reasons for Apple to explore these possibilities, but discussing it is definitely more in the rumor/speculation realm. Given that this is macrumors, it seems like a fine place to discuss these things, as long as we don't get too far into the weeds of just discussing general PC hardware like many other message boards.

 

[Mago]

AMD processors in Apple's machines fall into the category of speculation. Thus far an AMD processor has never shipped in a mac.

This didn't happen yet because before Zen, AMD processors were POS, but Intel Market Dominance made pressure for alternatives, now AMD with Zen seems viable alternative, there is no technical challenge to adopt AMD cpu, as to Adopt ARM, almost nothing need to re-write with an AMD APU.

 

[cube]

Some programs are written with CUDA, so it is important for Apple to support NVIDIA, even if OpenCL is preferred.

 

[Mago]

A warning about AMD Zen, remember AMD promise on Polaris Power Efficiency, and lately nVidia with its 1070 won by knockout, same could happen to Zen, despite Intel announcements to be focused on efficiency and not IPC, it maybe a bluff and they have something special waiting for Zen to ambush and humiliate AMD.

 

[cube]

Well, Intel will launch 10nm products next year, so I would not expect Apple to jump ship.

 

[Bubba Satori]

If ifs and buts were candies and nuts everyday would be Christmas.

 

[AidenShaw]

Yes, there is. http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/amd-reveals-worlds-2016feb01.aspx

Somehow, this doesn't look like an APU. What are you smoking?

And since it probably doesn't run CUDA, why even bring it up?

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

GL was created by a corporation.

It does not matter if DX has an edge.

GL is an open standard maintained by a consortium.

And your second sentence sends you to my filter.

 

[cube]

GL is an open standard maintained by a consortium.

That is OpenGL. Its predecessor, IRIS GL, was proprietary.

Khronos was not founded until several years after the creation of OpenGL.

 

[Stacc]

This didn't happen yet because before Zen, AMD processors were POS, but Intel Market Dominance made pressure for alternatives, now AMD with Zen seems viable alternative, there is no technical challenge to adopt AMD cpu, as to Adopt ARM, almost nothing need to re-write with an AMD APU.

Right, but zen is not out yet so we don't actually know how viable it is. AMD says it's great but they have to say that. Intel has dominated because their processors are very good. AMD has a long way to catch up. Its not impossible, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Remember, Intel has a lineup that is very efficient and has good performance that spans from 5 W to 140 W. Its hard to see AMD competing across that entire range and even if they do it will take awhile to fill that out. Apple is going to be all Intel or all AMD, so even if Zen is great it may be awhile before they fill that whole product lineup and it shows up in all macs.

 

[cube]

I think Phenom II has shown to be pretty good.

 

[koyoot]

Somehow, this doesn't look like an APU. What are you smoking?

View attachment 646827

And since it probably doesn't run CUDA, why even bring it up?

Because the technology from this GPU will be used in Server APUs.

And the fact that it doesnt run CUDA is actually a "plus" side of it.

 

[cube]

How important is to have a PhysX card?

Proprietary APIs suck.