And my next laptop is - MSI GS65/RTX2080 Max-Q

[Queen6]

From my own experience it doesn't matter, as long as all surface is covered without air pockets you're good. It is definitely better to err on the 'too much' side.

I remember one of the YT channels did a test of multiple ways to apply TIM and the results were basically all the same barring too little

Yeah, a little too late for me now. I think a contributing factor are some of the thermal pads which may create a sort of lever, lifting the heatplate, so I'll replace at least one them with k5pro - that's a thermal paste, but with play-doh consistency, suitable for large gaps.

I believe this GL703GS & Zephyrus uses K5 Pro on VRM's etc. opposed to pads, as first tear downs made a "thing" of it. In reality it's not been a problem. I've had no need to completely remove the back so no idea if it migrates over time, equally the thermals are good. I also believe that ASUS uses a different TIM for the CPU & GPU dies, however don't know which brand.

I'd be inclined to drop the pads, use the K5 Pro and a known good TIM for the dies. Might be worth checking the cooler against a glass surface in case it's deformed. Must admit I don't care for the retention system as not only tri point which is known to offer uneven pressure, the securing points are on tags that are located away from the dies.

nb. GL703 series has an access bay for RAM & SSD etc.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

From my own experience it doesn't matter, as long as all surface is covered without air pockets you're good. It is definitely better to err on the 'too much' side.

I saw a YT that did an experiment that showed that too much, x pattern, dot, lines and other methods all had zero impact on temps, they were all the same. The only thing that did affect the temps was wayyy too little. In a strange sort of way more is safer (unless its electrically conductive) which goes against the conventional wisdom of applying the thermal paste.

 

[Queen6]

In case anyone is interested full review on the 15" ROG Strix III with 9880H i9

https://www.kitguru.net/lifestyle/m...531gw-gaming-laptop-review-i9-9880h-rtx-2070/
Written review is more detailed.

Not for me as CPU performance is less than my current 17" Strix II with hex core 8750H i7, I do think the Strix III can deliver more, equally I think it will at best only perform marginally better if at all. I don't care for the aesthe0tic either too much RGB and even shut off effects the design. far slower SSD, more difficult to upgrade and the Keystone chip pretty much a gimmick. Better display but not enough in isolation to consider upgrading for my needs...

For the price TBH I'd rather get a 2019 i9 MBP or hopefully better the XenBook Pro Duo...

Update:

In case anyone is interested full review on the 15" ROG Strix III with 9880H i9

https://www.kitguru.net/lifestyle/mobile/laptops/luke-hill/asus-rog-strix-scar-iii-g531gw-gaming-laptop-review-i9-9880h-rtx-2070/
Written review is more detailed.

Not for me as CPU performance is less than my current 17" Strix II with hex core 8750H i7, I do think the Strix III can deliver more, equally I think it will at best only perform marginally better if at all. I don't care for the aesthe0tic either too much RGB and even shut off effects the design. far slower SSD, more difficult to upgrade and the Keystone chip pretty much a gimmick. Better display but not enough in isolation to consider upgrading for my needs...

For the price TBH I'd rather get a 2019 i9 MBP or hopefully better the ZenBook Pro Duo...​

Q-6

 

[Thysanoptera]

Not for me as CPU performance is less than my current 17" Strix II with hex core 8750H i7, I do think the Strix III can deliver more, equally I think it will at best only perform marginally better if at all.

They run the tests in ‘balanced’ mode, I’m not familiar with Asus control software, you probably know what it means, but looks like CPU was locked to 45W all the time with maybe just short bursts above it (looking at CB 15 vs 20). I’d much rather prefer reviews of enthusiast class notebooks to be done in all-in conditions, removed power limits and fans cranked to the max, to see what a given chassis can do, otherwise it is really hard to compare.

 

[Queen6]

They run the tests in ‘balanced’ mode, I’m not familiar with Asus control software, you probably know what it means, but looks like CPU was locked to 45W all the time with maybe just short bursts above it (looking at CB 15 vs 20). I’d much rather prefer reviews of enthusiast class notebooks to be done in all-in conditions, removed power limits and fans cranked to the max, to see what a given chassis can do, otherwise it is really hard to compare.

That may explain, equally they do state that max performance isn't much more and balanced is 45W for PL-1 and full power for PL-2. On my GL723GS it's a 5W difference at most (40W) on PL-1. Still remain unimpressed as other aspects I don't like. I'd like to see one tested on full power, even then it would need to be a big uplift.

Just flipped my GL to Balanced and it scored just short of 2600CB and it's 10 virtual desktops of apps and windows open, so there's already some load on the CPU OS. The Strix with i9 should perform better, but doesn't look to be a by a wide margin and certainly not worth the asking price of close to $3K

Notebookcheck's review here
https://www.notebookcheck.net/ASUS-...0-Laptop-Review.422957.0.html#toc-performance
Better, but still not where I'd like to see it. I would expect it to be close to 1600CB in R15 (no R20 with the review), given the 8750H can hit 1300CB.

TBH I'm a little spoiled as this notebook is and always has been a stellar performer, so my baseline is likely skewed.

Q-6

 

[Thysanoptera]

Notebookcheck's review here
https://www.notebookcheck.net/ASUS-...0-Laptop-Review.422957.0.html#toc-performance
Better, but still not where I'd like to see it. I would expect it to be close to 1600CB in R15 (no R20 with the review), given the 8750H can hit 1300CB.

Yeah, it doesn't look pretty, but I'm quite sure it can be made a lot faster. Like they list the refreshed GS65 with 9th gen i7 with stable CB15 at 1120. That's what I'm getting right now with fubar TIM, normally that was 1250 all day long. And the 8th gen GS65 stabilizes below 1000 in their tests.

I don't really look at ROG Asuses, missing TB3, got used too much to serenity of CPU around 30C during mundane tasks, with dGPU off while driving three monitors in complete silence. That price is eye watering too, although the prices in Europe are usually much higher.

 

[hajime]

Silent and fairly cool, they really did the homework since the first gen. Like right now I have a youtube video playing, outlook in the background and writing this post, CPU temp is around 50C, package power around 5W. I've set laptop fans to 2k rpm minimum (they're off by default at low temps), they're inaudible at this speed, right now they're at 2500 and you can hear them, but kind of have to look for the sound. At 3k they match the sound of my XPS15 at low power state also, which was never bothering me. The MSI is quieter but a little warmer than XPS 15 i5 quad in same low power conditions. With CPU at 50C the palmrests are cooler than skin, the area above the keyboard is warmer.

If you don't like the fans you can create own custom curve with bundled software. I didn't even bother, just set the minimum to 2k rpm. They start getting audible at 2.5k, max rpm @45W package power is tolerable 4k (and 90C CPU temp) , and you can manually force them to go all the way to 6k in which case they are really load.

"Silent and fairly cool" when the laptop is on battery or on AC power?

My Yoga C930 is dead silent most of the time when on battery. However, the fans are on most of the time when it is plugged to an AC adapter. I am talking about when idling, and CPU load of 1% (checked the task manager and it is not updating software nor scanning the drive). I wonder I should keep it or try MSI laptops.

 

[Thysanoptera]

I wonder I should keep it or try MSI laptops.

Please, hajime, and I cannot stress this enough, do not buy MSI, or any laptop from another known barebone manufacturer, like Clevo. They need quite a bit of TLC to run at optimum.

To answer the question about noise - MSI raised the minimum fan rpm in the recent bios, and right now it is audible, regardless of whether on battery or not, while before you couldn't hear it - even though the fan was working, like on Macbook.

 

[hajime]

Please, hajime, and I cannot stress this enough, do not buy MSI, or any laptop from another known barebone manufacturer, like Clevo. They need quite a bit of TLC to run at optimum.

To answer the question about noise - MSI raised the minimum fan rpm in the recent bios, and right now it is audible, regardless of whether on battery or not, while before you couldn't hear it - even though the fan was working, like on Macbook.

What is TLC?

Thanks for your info about the new bios. I heard that it was quiet in review but I guess not anymore.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

What is TLC?

Thanks for your info about the new bios. I heard that it was quiet in review but I guess not anymore.

TLC = Tender Loving Care.

 

[Queen6]

TLC = Tender Loving Care.

Or a lot of work to get it to run remotely quietly...

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

Yeah, it doesn't look pretty, but I'm quite sure it can be made a lot faster. Like they list the refreshed GS65 with 9th gen i7 with stable CB15 at 1120. That's what I'm getting right now with fubar TIM, normally that was 1250 all day long. And the 8th gen GS65 stabilizes below 1000 in their tests.

I don't really look at ROG Asuses, missing TB3, got used too much to serenity of CPU around 30C during mundane tasks, with dGPU off while driving three monitors in complete silence. That price is eye watering too, although the prices in Europe are usually much higher.

Price point is not good at all for a Strix. I do agree there's likely more on the table regarding performance, however it's well down on what I would expect, maybe a pre production model wouldn't be the first time. Right now I don't have need of TB-3 although USB C is mandatory, that said I would prefer as usage can and does change.

Although focused on the 2019 MBP tends to illustrate the Strix III simply isn't taking full advantage of the CPU IMO, likely as it's gaming centric and few games would benefit.

Q-6

 

[Thysanoptera]

Although focused on the 2019 MBP tends to illustrate the Strix III simply isn't taking full advantage of the CPU IMO, likely as it's gaming centric and few games would benefit.

Sometimes I really want to do bad things to reviewers. If you suspect Apple is lowering the voltage - just check the fricking number, don't guess. Apple still provides sensor that's not encrypted for it, maybe they forgot about it while taking away the ability to change it, but the sensor is still there.

And if in primes Strix maintains 2.4 Ghz@73C, but with limiter off that goes to 2.5Ghz@76C - then I'm pretty darn sure they didn't actually take the 'limiter' off. 3C difference may be caused by farting fly flying nearby. So most likely there was plenty of room to spare on the fans and voltage.

But he's got a point - looks like Apple plays with voltage, those clocks look a lot better than 2018 model. But still, any Windows machine with same CPU will blow it wide open, and I'm sure that Scar also in the right hands. I'm curious if Apple uses different voltage profiles for the 2.3 and 2.4, taking advantage of the better binned part, some of the results in the benchmarks thread would suggest it.

 

[soulreaver99]

Just picked up the GS65 wit the intel 9th gen CPU and RTX2060. Haven’t been doing any PC gaming in awhile and want to get back in. Console gaming is cute but it’s just not the same.

Playing Shadow of Tomb Raider on max graphics on 25-30fps was pretty bad on the Xbox One X and sacrificing quality for FPS didn’t give me the full experience of a game that was meant to be visually enjoyed. Hell even my MacBook Pro 13 2018 with an eGPU with a Radeon 580 card plays Mac ports better than some Games on the Xbox.

Also needed a more dedicated windows machine to take on the go for windows applications. Running parallels is great when doing simple stuff or when needed in a pinch but again... it’s not really the same.

Anyway, pretty excited to try out and see what this MSI laptop can do. Thankfully I’m a Best Buy elite plus so I have 45 days to test drive this baby

 

[Queen6]

Sometimes I really want to do bad things to reviewers. If you suspect Apple is lowering the voltage - just check the fricking number, don't guess. Apple still provides sensor that's not encrypted for it, maybe they forgot about it while taking away the ability to change it, but the sensor is still there.

And if in primes Strix maintains 2.4 Ghz@73C, but with limiter off that goes to 2.5Ghz@76C - then I'm pretty darn sure they didn't actually take the 'limiter' off. 3C difference may be caused by farting fly flying nearby. So most likely there was plenty of room to spare on the fans and voltage.

But he's got a point - looks like Apple plays with voltage, those clocks look a lot better than 2018 model. But still, any Windows machine with same CPU will blow it wide open, and I'm sure that Scar also in the right hands. I'm curious if Apple uses different voltage profiles for the 2.3 and 2.4, taking advantage of the better binned part, some of the results in the benchmarks thread would suggest it.

Was thinking the same, as it shouldn't be difficult to reference the voltage. My own Strix has been great, and it could easily handle a faster CPU which is why I don't get the results. Unlock Turbo Limits and the temp will soar, right up to T-junction, I can only think that they didn't PL1 increase with TS or XTU then the CPU will still be at 45W/55W.

Difference in OS X and W10 certainly indicates that an UV is in place and certainly the 8th Gen hex core can take UV with a high level of success. My own 8750H can go as deep as -175mV, although to be on the safe side I generally run it at a more conservative -140mV. Pricing remains disappointing as we hardly ever see discount...

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

Anyway, pretty excited to try out and see what this MSI laptop can do. Thankfully I’m a Best Buy elite plus so I have 45 days to test drive this baby

congrats and I hope it works out for you. MSI does have some nice machines.

 

[Thysanoptera]

Just picked up the GS65 wit the intel 9th gen CPU and RTX2060.

Enjoy it, it is a really good machine with decent cooling. It has its problems (my main are flexibility of the chassis and associated with it creaking noises) but will get done any job you throw at it.

I wonder how low can you go with undervolt with it, on my 8th gen I can only get to -140.

 

[soulreaver99]

Enjoy it, it is a really good machine with decent cooling. It has its problems (my main are flexibility of the chassis and associated with it creaking noises) but will get done any job you throw at it.

I wonder how low can you go with undervolt with it, on my 8th gen I can only get to -140.

I turned off turbo boost and so far it has been running fine without the fans screaming. I agree that the build quality isn't up to the level of Razer's but the cost savings difference in about $400-$500 for the Razer equivalent is more worth it. Plus I can fine a second power adapter for the MSI for $50 on Amazon, where as I'd have to fork out $140 for Razer. Yikes.

I am liking it so far. I really miss the feel of running native Windows and the OS is definitely a lot faster than Mac OS when using it. Also the keyboard beats all variations of the butterfly keyboard. I've gotten used to it on the Mac but it's a breath of fresh air on the MSI. I've played Shadow of Tomb Raider on the Xbox One X, going to play it all over again in max settings (which you can't do on the mac) on this thing on the weekend.

Not giving up Mac entirely though as I need final cut, being able to run multiple instances of VM simultaneously alongside MacOS, and my MacBook Pro 13 is an awesome travel laptop on top of being able to charge via USB-C. The MSI GS65 will be my main desktop going from home office to my work office... where I sneak in games of Overwatch and Apex Legends every now and then

 

[Thysanoptera]

I turned off turbo boost and so far it has been running fine without the fans screaming.

Some tips :
1. Uninstall Dragon center. It overvolts the CPU and messes with anything you set in BIOS.
2. Use Silent Option to control fans. That was the only function from Dragon Center that I've found useful anyway.
3. You can unlock BIOS by Left Alt, Right Control, Right Shift, F2 while in any BIOS menu. Be careful though, this will expose a lot of really low level parameters that are not checked for validity and you can easily mess up your machine. Look up forums at http://forum.notebookreview.com/forums/msi.1015/ to see what they do and how to set it up.
4. Use Throttlestop to set clock profiles and undervolt, no need to disable Turbo.
5. Check differences between cores temperatures while at full load (like running Cinebench 20).