And the switch to Windows is on

[dwd3885]

Wow. I was all set to be really happy about this day today. My powermac g5 is great, i was planning on keeping it for a while. But with the mac mini today and the lack of anything worth while it has me thinking. Is it all down hill from here?

I mean seriously, Intel? What was I thinking? I have never owned an Intel machine in my life. AMD kicks serious butt, but intel just blows. The switch appeared good at first for the imac, but that's because there was only a single g5 in there to begin with. But a DUAL G5 to an Intel?!? Even the next gen intel chips won't be able to compete with AMD's current line.

I'm not just an AMD fan. I have a Mac desktop, a pc laptop. I consider myself not a fanboy of anything, just a supporter of whatever works best. One of the main reasons to love the Mac is the video performance such as final cut and it's so easy to transfer video to your ipod on the mac.

But is THIS what we have to look forward to? Now, the Intel PowerMacs will surely be better than this stinking mini, but will their prices rise to? How much more money will people have to spend??!

The G5 series was great. But the switch to intel will tarnish Apple computers. Viruses already appearing, integrated graphics, still no solution to Windows MCE. Vista's right around the corner with outstanding features. Is the sky falling? Just like my buddy Leo Laporte said back in June. This is NOT a good thing.

I feel like selling my Mac right now and just ridding myself of what is to come. Oh this is not a happy day.

 

[Arclite]

Just to note, the "virus" (the harmless, poorly written trojan) that appeared lately affected PPC Macs as well.

 

[Daedalus256]

Being someone who owns both an amazing AMD gaming PC and two Mac laptops (G3 Lombard and G4 Aluminum) I have to say that I've always liked AMD and have never had an intel machine.

Yeah I like AMD better, only because it works better. The K6-2 was actually lame compared to say the Pentium 2s but hey.

This most recently presentation was the biggest disappointment I've seen from Apple recently. I mean it really is bad.

Having said all this, the intel switch is probably a good thing. IBM could honestly care less about marketing their PowerPC when they've got things like the Power6 processor and the Xbox 360. I wouldn't get discouraged so easily.

 

[dwd3885]

Just to note, the "virus" (the harmless, poorly written trojan) that appeared lately affected PPC Macs as well.

ok. viruses are the least of my concerns anyway. but it's just the whole future doesn't look so good after today. can it all really go downhill after just one day?

 

[Josh]

I think a lot of people might have a similar train of thought.

I for one am thinking exactly the same thing.

Integrated graphics and $100 more?

Apple's announcement is not just dissapointing in that it was not one thing or another; the announcement is also dissapointing in what it actually is.

Intel chips should mean cheaper Macs. No questions about it.

Folks can rant and rave about the price being for the "experience" all they want - but let's face it: people use computers to get their work done, not to sit down as "one with the computer" and "experience" some technological friendship between man and computer.

Aperture turned out to be a dissapointment. Pages is much the same. And now this?

It seems as if the Macs selling point is shiny graphics and smooth fonts. Besides those things, I see no reason to opt for a Mac any more.

I don't think I'll be selling my PowerMac, but Apple better have something amazing up their sleeve, or Vista+Linux dual-boot is looking mighty appealing.

 

[liquidh2o]

Wow. I was all set to be really happy about this day today. My powermac g5 is great, i was planning on keeping it for a while. But with the mac mini today and the lack of anything worth while it has me thinking. Is it all down hill from here?

I mean seriously, Intel? What was I thinking? I have never owned an Intel machine in my life. AMD kicks serious butt, but intel just blows. The switch appeared good at first for the imac, but that's because there was only a single g5 in there to begin with. But a DUAL G5 to an Intel?!? Even the next gen intel chips won't be able to compete with AMD's current line.

I'm not just an AMD fan. I have a Mac desktop, a pc laptop. I consider myself not a fanboy of anything, just a supporter of whatever works best. One of the main reasons to love the Mac is the video performance such as final cut and it's so easy to transfer video to your ipod on the mac.

But is THIS what we have to look forward to? Now, the Intel PowerMacs will surely be better than this stinking mini, but will their prices rise to? How much more money will people have to spend??!

The G5 series was great. But the switch to intel will tarnish Apple computers. Viruses already appearing, integrated graphics, still no solution to Windows MCE. Vista's right around the corner with outstanding features. Is the sky falling? Just like my buddy Leo Laporte said back in June. This is NOT a good thing.

I feel like selling my Mac right now and just ridding myself of what is to come. Oh this is not a happy day.

I'm beginning to think you're a troll.

First you claim to have a dual G5 powermac, then you got rid of it for an intel imac, you say the imac is the greatest thing, then you change your mind.

Next thing you know you're posting a thread on which is better to buy, a Dual G5 powermac or an intel imac...

People question why you need an answer when you've already owned both of them... you can't give a straight answer and then you say you're just going to switch to the PC and be done with it.

Now you own a dual G5 powermac and are bashing Apple.


So either A.) get your story straight or B.) make up your mind and be done with the back and forth drama queen threads.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

I agree with everyone here, the new Mini dissapoints big time with handicapped graphics. Dvorak or whatever his name predicted Intel macs many moons before, now he has predicted window Macs coming. Maybe this is coming hence the Integrated crap graphics in Mini.
I also use a AMD powered Alienware and find myself using the Mac less and less and less. Apple just may become another reseller of PC componets running windows one day. I hope not but the hardware coming out of Apple these days makes me yawn. I would have been pretty excited with a dual core mini running 9600 or better graphics but the Cheap Intel graphics are just to much to bear. Maybe they can hire Karl Rove to spin this and sell to the uneducated.

 

[dwd3885]

I'm beginning to think you're a troll.

First you claim to have a dual G5 powermac, then you got rid of it for an intel imac, you say the imac is the greatest thing, then you change your mind.

Next thing you know you're posting a thread on which is better to buy, a Dual G5 powermac or an intel imac...

People question why you need an answer when you've already owned both of them... you can't give a straight answer and then you say you're just going to switch to the PC and be done with it.

Now you own a dual G5 powermac and are bashing Apple.


So either A.) get your story straight or B.) make up your mind and be done with the back and forth drama queen threads.

wow. you are really turning this to be about me. i buy and sell computers. that's what i do. i have always given a straight answer when people ask me if i own both of them. geez! in the past four months i have owned three dual 2ghz g5 rev b, one dual core 2ghz g5, one intel imac and one gateway pc and an hp pc. i don't understand why people care about motives about me.

the point is, everyone can see how apple truly dissappointed today. THAT'S what I'm talking about. Don't get mad at me because Apple screwed up. Fanboys are pretty lame

 

[Tambien]

I don't see what the big fuss is about. Apple released products to different consumer markets and did a good job. The graphics on macs have never been that great, not saying that integrated is a good thing. They probally shouldn't have done that but i think that they are trying to show it as a minimun. I only have a nice pc and belive me windows vista is not getting me hyped at all. Vista is not pulling through on a lot of things it could have, along with the 10 different versions. To think that the switch to intel is bad is really faulty thinking. Everyone feels so special when they have a g5 because its not touched by a windows program, get over it haha. Really the hardware on the new macs work and it works well. Amd is great but i dont' see how a company has to matter with liking a product or not, the intel duos are great processors.

 

[liquidh2o]

wow. you are really turning this to be about me. i buy and sell computers. that's what i do. i have always given a straight answer when people ask me if i own both of them. geez! in the past four months i have owned three dual 2ghz g5 rev b, one dual core 2ghz g5, one intel imac and one gateway pc and an hp pc. i don't understand why people care about motives about me.

the point is, everyone can see how apple truly dissappointed today. THAT'S what I'm talking about. Don't get mad at me because Apple screwed up. Fanboys are pretty lame

edit: and this is partially about you because you are a drama queen. I think the fact that you say you've owned all this equipment in the past four months and still can't make up for your mind speaks for itself.

I'm not a fanboy, as I use both a pc and mac and consider myself platform neutral because both serve a purpose which the other does not fill.

Yes, today's offerings disappoint. Given the integrated graphics, the innards of this computer are almost all intel. To me this would've indicated a price break rather than a price increase because we're sourcing a majority of parts from one vendor rather than multiple sources, and Apple's R&D costs should lower now that they don't have to design a motherboard for the mini. It makes me wonder what component of the mini costs the most and what the margins are for the new mini.

To say "Apple is teh DOOMED" after the release of the mini is absurd. It in no way reflects a trend of higher costs for other models because the price of the imac stayed exactly the same and it's hard to gauge price increases for the powerbook/macbookpro because of the inclusion of a dual core processor.

I think we're going to see a replacement of the Powermac line that sees only a change in video card, processors and the architecture to support it. I do not think prices will increase unless newer generation ram prices continue to rise.

I also think in the transition the bang-for-the-buck factor has increased. it has already been shown that the intel imac is more than capable of keeping up w/ a dual PM G5. Now drop two core duos into the powermac along side an upgraded graphics card and you have a machine that will lay waste to anything in Apple's PowerPC family.

And I do think the upgraded video card is of importance, especially with regards to the architecture switch and what this means for video card makers and the investment(s) they will have to make to support these cards. It should be signifigantly lower considering both macs and pcs now share a common architecture, which might also mean more frequent updates to the video card line for macs, something we have not seen in the past for the PowerPC line of macs.

 

[Seasought]

Sounds like this was sort of a final straw for you today. I was certainly hoping for something more impressive with today's event but I also knew that it wasn't going to be as extensive as another MacWorld.

I'm not sure why you find such appeal in the upcoming Vista, but hopefully you'll find what you're looking for in it. I know I certainly won't.

 

[liquidh2o]

Viruses already appearing, integrated graphics, still no solution to Windows MCE. Vista's right around the corner with outstanding features.

This is a prime example of being a drama queen.

Viruses already appearing? Are you really attributing these viruses to the intel switch? You do understand they're at the OS level, not the architecture level, right? You also understand these viruses are in fact not viruses, because they have to still be user-initiated?

Windows MCE? Last I checked there was never a mention of competing head on with windows MCE, but I'm open to any sources you may have that prove otherwise.

Vista with outstanding features. Such as? And again, how is any of that attributed to the switch to intel? You do realize 10.5 will be out around the same time as Vista, as long as MS does not have to push back their release date (yet again).

 

[e-clipse]

I still think the Mac OSX will keep Apple on track.

 

[MacAficionado]

Dude, You're freakin' out.

I say this in the most sincere way not to insult you, but you don't know what you're saying.

Unless you have tried the Intel Core Duo, you can't really have better judgement.

I owned a G5 iMac 1.9Ghz iSight, right before I passed that on to my father and got a Intel iMac. It is really impressive, not just because of the speed, but because of the sense of it doing everything the G5 did but faster. Rosetta is amazingly transparent.

I feel you about the PPC vs x86 thing, but I am loving this iMac, even though I'm posting this from my PowerBook. I have the iMac ripping a DVD in the room right now.

Remember, the thing that made PPC better than x86 a few years ago, is apparently the same thing that will make Intel chips better than AMD chips in the present or near future. And then again, nothing stops Apple from going from Intel to AMD if their processors improve to the point they outperform Intel's.
From an Intel iMac user's standpoint, the outlook is very good, especially when I am currently using a G4 and a Core Duo machine. I can see the difference. Trust me, it is an improvement for the Mini.

Whoa, that's it.

One more thing!

Viruses have nothing tho do with processor. They have to do with the OS. If we are all of a sudden getting attempts at harming the platform, it is because IT has become more popular and challenging for the arseholes who are writting them. I'm sure Apple has learned from the past few weeks of attacks, and will implement ways of making OS X even more secure, even if it means losing some features.

 

[Josh]

I owned a G5 iMac 1.9Ghz iSight, right before I passed that on to my father and got a Intel iMac. It is really impressive, not just because of the speed, but because of the sense of it doing everything the G5 did but faster.

It's not the speed...but the sense of doing things faster....

Care to elaborate on that a bit?

Remember, the thing that made PPC better than x86 a few years ago, is apparently the same thing that will make Intel chips better than AMD chips in the present or near future.

The only thing that made the PPC "better" than the x86 was Job's reality distortion field. It was never better, benchmark after benchmark proved this.

Sure, Job's reality distortion field could make Intel "seem" better than AMD to the uneducated, but as in the former case, that does not make it really so.

The new mini may have a core-duo, but that is not much more than something for Apple to brag about. A slightly better (indeed, it is NOT 4x faster!) CPU is completely cancelled out by crippling the GPU for anything beyond web surfing and chatting.

Photoshop, iMovie, and games are likely to be WORSE on the new mini than they were on the old one.
(and don't say "If you want to do these things, get an iMac!"...Apple is specifically marketting these apps (minus Photoshop) to home users that would be purchasing a mini. )

Is this Apple's intention? To draw an even more distinct line between their users, forcing them to buy upwards?

More than likely, and I feel it's only going to hurt them in the long run.

Apple is over-confident, and that is entirely due to an unrealistically loyal fanbase.

 

[dwd3885]

Windows MCE? Last I checked there was never a mention of competing head on with windows MCE, but I'm open to any sources you may have that prove otherwise.

Vista with outstanding features. Such as? And again, how is any of that attributed to the switch to intel? You do realize 10.5 will be out around the same time as Vista, as long as MS does not have to push back their release date (yet again).

Last time I checked, Frontrow was an attempt to do what MCE already has. Except for one thing, no PVR. And why would Apple do that? To take money away from their iTunes store? NO WAY! That was dissappointing, especially since all the people who have mini's put them next to their tv anyway. Jobs is getting killed today by numerous members of the mac community for the first time in at least two years. It's quite dissappointing really. I don't want Apple to fail. But this switch to intel forces Apple to drop prices because you see comparable PC systems with other chips for cheaper. The only thing Apple has is the OS. And that is it.

Vista looks to be pretty good. They have the search feature which they created first, but Apple got from them for Tiger. All the "eye candy" that makes Apple great, Vista is catching up on.

If you could stick an X2 in a Mac, it would rock. But guys, look at Intel chip performance. It is NOTHING to get worked up about. Being a pc user before, any slightly elevated user knows AMD dominates intel. So how on earth will the performance of the PowerMacs be equal to that of the AMD X2 even?

 

[dwd3885]

I think you haven't quite reached the intellectual level required to deserve a Macintosh yet.

and it's comments like that as to the reason why many people find some mac users to be complete idiots. Intelligent level of owning a computer? You've got to be kidding me.

Snobby, blatantly fanboy fanbase.

 

[tonyl]

Did you see the bechmarks between Intel core duo T2600@2920Mhz VS. AMD FX60? http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90743
Yonah is amazing! Apple made the right choice.

 

[shrimpdesign]

Just to note, the "virus" (the harmless, poorly written trojan) that appeared lately affected PPC Macs as well.

Actually, it didn't even run AT ALL on Intel Macs.

 

[Josh]

and it's comments like that as to the reason why many people find some mac users to be complete idiots. Intelligent level of owning a computer? You've got to be kidding me.

Snobby, blatantly fanboy fanbase.

Definitely agreed.

Surely if there is a required level of intelligence to own a computer, there must also be a level of arrogance that keeps some people from owning computers (or at least, making snobby comments on forums).

"OMG...you own a Mac?!?! You must be God's gift to intellectuals! I wish I was a philospher/scholar/dalai lamma so I could own a Mac too!"

 

[liquidh2o]

Last time I checked, Frontrow was an attempt to do what MCE already has. Except for one thing, no PVR. And why would Apple do that? To take money away from their iTunes store? NO WAY! That was dissappointing, especially since all the people who have mini's put them next to their tv anyway. Jobs is getting killed today by numerous members of the mac community for the first time in at least two years. It's quite dissappointing really. I don't want Apple to fail. But this switch to intel forces Apple to drop prices because you see comparable PC systems with other chips for cheaper. The only thing Apple has is the OS. And that is it.

Vista looks to be pretty good. They have the search feature which they created first, but Apple got from them for Tiger. All the "eye candy" that makes Apple great, Vista is catching up on.

If you could stick an X2 in a Mac, it would rock. But guys, look at Intel chip performance. It is NOTHING to get worked up about. Being a pc user before, any slightly elevated user knows AMD dominates intel. So how on earth will the performance of the PowerMacs be equal to that of the AMD X2 even?

MCE is an OS all of its own, front row is not. Front row is not centered around any one segment of computers (HTPC), rather it's there as a compliment to an already feature rich OS.

I think the search feature you're referring to is the metadata search feature. And it's not yet guaranteed to be included in vista. Apple does not have a full metadata search implementation last time I checked, spotlight is a patchwork version until 10.5

Eye candy is nice but isn't my main reason for using an OS. And have you seen Vista's new and improved utility bar??? I reall don't know what to make of it other than it'll be an annoyance that I'm glad I don't have to use.

As far as the AMD X2, intel is hot on the heels of it, and while it's not the overall performance king, the P D900 is in no way a slouch. Not to mention intel has one thing AMD does not, and that is a long term roadmap.

Also, last time I checked, AMD does not have any 3rd party motherboards that support dual-dual core configurations. While intel isn't there yet, you can bet that they'll be inside powermacs by no later than the end of the year.

show me a benchmark where the X2 loses to the Pentium D

The D900 tops the X2 in Q4 benchmarks.

 

[dwd3885]

The D900 tops the X2 in Q4 benchmarks.

where at? Consistently, the X2 outperforms. And why should the user care about a roadmap? We are not Apple. We just buy computers to work on, play on, etc. Performance/price should be our concern. I really just want a computer I can settle down with. For me and my back and forth goings for the past six months, I haven't settled with anything. One time I want Mac, then I want pc. I got a pc laptop. I just want to get something and stick. But it's been very hard due to apple's prices being a bit out of my range and the windows machine's usually dissppointing me in one way or another.

i don't want to bash anybody, i just want a computer that will suite me so i DON'T sell it on EBAY!!

Hi, my name is Derek, and I have a problem.

 

[forumBuddy]

I have to agree with the original poster - Apple "Event" thing is getting lame. My PowerMac G5 was my first mac and I think will be my last. My cousin was considering a switch before this event, but not anymore, at least for the time being. I wish I got on the Mac bandwagon during the early G4 days and enjoyed the beautiful hardware for a little longer. Now it seems Vista will be providing eye candy I crave, features I miss (like Explorer, built in picture browsing gaming capability) etc.

 

[liquidh2o]

check toms hardware for the quake4 bench.

The user should care about a roadmap because it's indicative that the company has a solid plan laid out for continued innovation and performance improvements. While Intel is pushing along w/ next generation processors, AMD is still squeezing everything it can out of its current generation. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it will gradually put them behind the power curve.

 

[Tambien]

where at? Consistently, the X2 outperforms. And why should the user care about a roadmap? We are not Apple. We just buy computers to work on, play on, etc. Performance/price should be our concern. I really just want a computer I can settle down with. For me and my back and forth goings for the past six months, I haven't settled with anything. One time I want Mac, then I want pc. I got a pc laptop. I just want to get something and stick. But it's been very hard due to apple's prices being a bit out of my range and the windows machine's usually dissppointing me in one way or another.

i don't want to bash anybody, i just want a computer that will suite me so i DON'T sell it on EBAY!!

Hi, my name is Derek, and I have a problem.

Haha Welcome Derek!

Anyway,I think one of the benifits of using a mac is that the software is very optimized. And in this case it is proven by the ability to use the g4 processor for so long. I think in the short range it will have some rough spots. But in the long range the new intels will work out very well.