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and there they go...eBay iPhones...
- Thread starter zea mays
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LOL. Capitalism at its best. I don't see why everyone's getting so hacked that people are making money off of the iPhone -- Apple and AT&T sure are doing so.
Because scalping is really bad for capitalism, that's why.
It occurs when a seller has reason to discount an item below the market clearing price. Sports teams do this all the time so that they can ensure sellouts, because the value of attending a game rises for people if it is a sellout, and it is in the long run interest of a pro sports team to maximize the value people get from attending their games.
With things like PS3s and iPhones, the manufacturer doesn't want the product to be perceived as more "pricey" than it will be in the long run, because that puts customers off. So when you eBay an iPhone or scalp a ticket, you are harming the seller and legitimate buyers.
There are lots of situations in our society where the price of goods doesn't reflect demand. There are two main ways of dealing with it. One is "first come first served" (i.e. a queue), the other is a random lottery. Situations like these represent occasions when a free market doesn't produce the best outcome. Scalpers and eBayers are people who make things worse by taking advantage of the fact that queueing is an informal institution.
That's not to say that price gouging can't sometimes be good. But it isn't always good.
Can you imagine the negative publicity if, say, Sony had not imposed a limit on the number of PS3s an individual could buy. You'd have opportunistic individuals who would buy up the whole stock and resell it at inflated prices, and create a real image problem for the product. It's in the interest of sellers to discourage scalping (which is why the vast majority of them do so).
I don't mind the scalping in this case, because these people took a risk that there would actually be excess demand for the phone. The way it looks now, the phones are selling well but there is no shortage of them, so I'm guessing most of the scalpers aren't really going to make a profit.
Don't take the ones like this with silly amounts as serious. They aren't. Shill or spoilt bids reign.
considering you can walk into an Apple store and get an 8Gb iPhone for $600+ tax, and yes they are in stock, but hey if someone whats to spend $1700+ for a phone they will get Monday instead of $600 for a phone they can get today, more power to them.
I had the idea in my head to buy another phone to sell on ebay for about 40 seconds yesterday. I just don't want to be one of those ebay hacks.
I had the idea in my head to buy another phone to sell on ebay for about 40 seconds yesterday. I just don't want to be one of those ebay hacks.
That's true, but it's still not fair on those people who waited for hours outside the AT&T stores and missed out.
I guess it is some consolation to them that the scalpers also wasted their time, but that just means that most people in those queues were queueing for nothing.
Sure. In retrospect. But we didn't know it at the time and weren't willing to take that chance.
Shame on SJ for telling people to go to the ATT stores.
That's also true. Although it might have something to do with Apple wanting to play nice with AT&T. I'm guessing that AT&T would have been really annoyed if everyone had gone to the Apple stores and left them holding iPhones.
Good on Apple for having a massive inventory though.
The supply is definitely why these phones aren't selling! Though the 8gb seem to be getting bids at about 8-900. Can't believe that!
I don't understand it, as you don't get much of an "Apple" experience buying it from ebay. I imagine the fun is partly going to an Apple store and getting the whole mystique.
With that said, i saw one iphone go for $255! I wonder if all these scalpers are going to have to compete with below cost prices to try and recoup their costs? Hmm, I might actually be willing to buy an iphone 8gb for $300!
I don't understand it, as you don't get much of an "Apple" experience buying it from ebay. I imagine the fun is partly going to an Apple store and getting the whole mystique.
With that said, i saw one iphone go for $255! I wonder if all these scalpers are going to have to compete with below cost prices to try and recoup their costs? Hmm, I might actually be willing to buy an iphone 8gb for $300!
What? Capitalism IS scalping. It's all demand and supply. If the demand is high (like a freaking 6 month wait for the iPhone), and the supply is low like you would expect for a newly launched product, you raise the prices. It's not based on what's good for everyone, it's based on what's good for me.
I don't see how you could get mad at the "scalper"/ebayer. They only exist because people have created the insane "want" for the iPhone. And if someone buys it at 1500, that's still one that would have been bought at 600 by someone that's smart enough to order online. It doesn't effect the overall sales. They are playing the free market just like Apple and AT&T did.
In short, am I going to pay 900 for an iPhone? No. I can't even pay 600. But will someone? Yes, because they can. As another person said in another forum "Don't hate the player. Hate the game."
BTW, I've only read one forum where a guy didn't get his 8gb because some pro basketball player cut in line and bought all of them at an AT&T store --which is way a hell lot sh&&%er than someone selling it on ebay. So he had to order one. He'll still get one, but if he has to have it NOW, he could just go look on ebay.
Cracks me up. These e-bayers are going to eat their shirts and be stuck with phones they don't really want. I love it when people lose money on get rich quick schemes based on faulty information. ANyone paying attention would know that there wasn't going to be a long term shortage of these phones.
Reminds me oh a guy I know who heard that there was going to be a shortage of champagne for the milenium new year. So he goes out and buys several palettes of Cooks bubbly and puts them in his basement with the idea that he was going to sell them when the price went up. But what he missed is that there was a predicted shortage of GOOD champagne, not of cheap champagne which can be produced in bulk in a short amount of time. So he failed to sell all this crappy champagne and was stuck with hundrds of bottles (which don't age well) SUCKER!
Reminds me oh a guy I know who heard that there was going to be a shortage of champagne for the milenium new year. So he goes out and buys several palettes of Cooks bubbly and puts them in his basement with the idea that he was going to sell them when the price went up. But what he missed is that there was a predicted shortage of GOOD champagne, not of cheap champagne which can be produced in bulk in a short amount of time. So he failed to sell all this crappy champagne and was stuck with hundrds of bottles (which don't age well) SUCKER!
eBay sellers from Thousand Oaks, CA apple store
I was about 80th in line of 200+ and some guy and his wife came out with 6 phones... 6? They sold them another two for the baby?!
So I saw an article in the paper on the front page today that covered the event yesterday at the same apple store I went to. Part of the article went like this:
"Baby = more phones
Though Apple limited iPhones to two a person, people found ways to get as many as possible. Simi valley residents James and Stacey Underwood waited in line at The Oaks mall along with their 6-month-old baby, Nolan. The couple paid James' two younger brothers and a friend $50 each to wait in line. The group bought 12 phones, including the two Nolan bought with cash."
cont'd
"The Underwoods planned to sell the phones on eBay for a fast $19,000 profit to pay off most of their credit card debt. James underwood said they might squeeze in showers first after a night of camping out for the phones.
'It was a lot of fun. We met great people,' Stacey Underwood said. 'Even if we make a little bit over what we paid for them, it was worth it.' "
Seriously, that seems like it's going a bit overboard.
I was about 80th in line of 200+ and some guy and his wife came out with 6 phones... 6? They sold them another two for the baby?!
So I saw an article in the paper on the front page today that covered the event yesterday at the same apple store I went to. Part of the article went like this:
"Baby = more phones
Though Apple limited iPhones to two a person, people found ways to get as many as possible. Simi valley residents James and Stacey Underwood waited in line at The Oaks mall along with their 6-month-old baby, Nolan. The couple paid James' two younger brothers and a friend $50 each to wait in line. The group bought 12 phones, including the two Nolan bought with cash."
cont'd
"The Underwoods planned to sell the phones on eBay for a fast $19,000 profit to pay off most of their credit card debt. James underwood said they might squeeze in showers first after a night of camping out for the phones.
'It was a lot of fun. We met great people,' Stacey Underwood said. 'Even if we make a little bit over what we paid for them, it was worth it.' "
Seriously, that seems like it's going a bit overboard.
Okay, so there's "scalping" and then there's just plain lunacy. 19,000 for 10 (I'm assuming they're keeping 2??) phones. Now that's just ridiculous.
EDIT:Must not have done their market research -- maybe that's why they have over 20k in credit card debt.
I find it funny that something like people buying multiple iphones or playstation 3s to sell on ebay for a profit pisses so many people off, but those same people have no problem wearing apparel manufatured by underpaid, exploited human beings.
Priorities people.
I don't get what the two have to do with each other.
No it isn't. Capitalism is about allowing the exchange of goods between people to improve efficiency. The idea is to reward people for producing things that other people want.
The bane of capitalism is people making money for things that are useless, or making money in ways that siphon off rewards from those who are actually making useful things. Scalpers are in the latter group.
Sometimes it is in the long term interest of sellers to price goods below the market clearing price (I gave examples above). They forgo short term profit in favour of a greater long term profit. Scalpers are essentially people who try to frustrate this goal by cashing in on the short term profit, but this harms the original seller (who is the person actually making useful things).
You have a simple minded view of how capitalism actually works. Here is where you go wrong IMHO
This is wrong. Scalpers do not exist only because people have created the "insane want" for the iPhone. If Apple sold the phone at the market clearing price (e.g. by having an online Dutch Auction), there would be no scalpers (because there would be no profit), but there would still be the "insane want". But Apple has good reason not to sell the iPhone at the market clearing price because it would harm iPhone sales in the long run by branding what is an already expensive device as insanely expensive. It would be Apple selling at below the clearing price that would create the insane demand.
But they haven't. They've been quite shrewd and made sure that there is a massive supply of iPhones. Hence the scalpers are taking a bath.
So how do these ebayers hurt Apple? Did they not sell the phone Apple made or not? So since Macmall.com always has things at 5 dollars cheaper than Apple.com, I should always shop at macmall because they are doing the "long term profit" idea, and Apple is actually doing the "short term profit" idea?
Yeah I know its a little skewed thinking since I'm simple minded and all, but I'm talking about real world capitalism, not theoretical capitalism. In theoretical communism, we all would've gotten an iPhone. In the real world communism, only leaders do.
Call me simple minded all you want, but I know how the real world works.
Except you don't. 5 bucks on a $1000 computer is chicken feed and irrelevant to this article. How many people are in the business of buying an iMac and reselling it for a $5 profit?
Think about this case:
Why on earth would a sports team not charge the clearing price for tickets? They don't, because if they did, there would be no scalpers (because there would be no profit). Sports teams would absolutely charge the clearing price if they could, because they are in the business of making money.
They aren't dumb. They do it for a reason: to make it more likely that they will have a full house. Why is that valuable? Because a full area is much more fun to be in than a 3/4 full one. People are more likely to come back again if they have fun.
Scalpers mess this up for them. That's why they don't like them. Scalpers harm sellers' long term interests.
Essentially the same is true of things like PS3s (although companies can limit supply on purpose to create a buzz, in which case scalping is not necessarily unethical).
5 bucks adds up after 10 million sells.
So you're saying apple won't make 10 million sells by the end of 2008 because of some ebay scalpers?
Also, your sports analogy is awful. That's a limited amount of seats. The iPhone will never stop being made.
However, your sports analogy does prove that if someone has money, they will buy whatever they want for whatever price.
Am I still too simple minded for you?