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ChazUK

macrumors 603
Feb 3, 2008
5,393
25
Essex (UK)
From a different thread, but I think it applies:


Even using Google Chrome was smoother on my iPhone than Nexus 4. Am I the only one who thinks that is backwards?

I think that's because Chrome isn't really Chrome on iOS. It's just a Chrome like skin and featureset over iOS's standard webview renderer.

Features like V8 are completely missing and Google's move to their forked WebKit (Blink) will be completely missing from iOS unless Apple's stance on rendering engines changes.
 

maxosx

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2012
2,385
1
Southern California
My friends have an htc droid dna, and another has an s4. Both actually admit to having lag on their phones. It seems that they can live with the lag, because they want to keep the customization options. Whereas when they had iphones, they had no lag. But unless jailbroken, could not do much with the OS. Thats what i see from android users. They learn to live with the lag, stutters, etc. To keep the ability to customize the phones the way they can with android.

I have seen the lag they are talking about. Personally, it would bother me having to use a phone that does lag or stutter the way theirs does. But for them, they have learned to live with it. It all comes down to whether you can accept the quirks that android provides, for the ability to have your phone looking exactly the way you want it.
Sounds like quite an embellished story designed to position iOS as superior. It's a perfect excuse to satiate some people's need to feel they have made the right choice. Some will go to great lengths to spread negative comments & false claims.

I on the other hand, don't need to rely on heresay, I have both Android & iOS, finding them both very enjoyable. Having used those two platforms for years it's been nice to have variety & choices.

We have a BYOD policy at work. With over 1,000 employees in both the US & UK, our IT department supports Android & iOS. It's a great arrangement that keeps everyone happy, if Android was as bad as the haters say there's no way well over half the employees would be allowed to use them.
 

strausd

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2008
2,998
1
Texas
I think that's because Chrome isn't really Chrome on iOS. It's just a Chrome like skin and featureset over iOS's standard webview renderer.

Features like V8 are completely missing and Google's move to their forked WebKit (Blink) will be completely missing from iOS unless Apple's stance on rendering engines changes.

Although that is a valid argument, that is only one of my many points in my latest comment ;)
 

Hastings101

macrumors 68020
Jun 22, 2010
2,355
1,482
K
I think it used to be true for Android's UI in the past, before ICS and Jelly Bean made big gains in hardware acceleration and optimization. Now the only "lag" that is around are the occasional stutters when apps are loading or in the background and that happens on both types of phones at the moment.
 

Tinmania

macrumors 68040
Aug 8, 2011
3,528
1,016
Aridzona
I think it used to be true for Android's UI in the past, before ICS and Jelly Bean made big gains in hardware acceleration and optimization. Now the only "lag" that is around are the occasional stutters when apps are loading or in the background and that happens on both types of phones at the moment.
Yes but trying to use that simple logic here will only rile the iOS fans. iOS never does anything remotely like that to some.

Michael
 
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sentinelsx

macrumors 68010
Feb 28, 2011
2,004
0
Ok, I guess a serious response is in order.

I posted the explanation from a google employee who worked on android (it is still there on her g+ account) a while back and NO ONE read it. Reading is hard, I get it.

In layman terms, everything in android is an activity. That activity, if it involves an interface, has a separate window (all activities and windows are sandboxed btw). Tap on an address bar? The keyboard showing up is a separate activity opened by your OS, in a separate window. When it comes on, you see the animation of the "keyboard window", but its hardly noticeable.

And this is where it gets interesting. Any app that involves UI elements which need constant redrawing (and hence constant window animations) WILL create a burden on the hardware unless it is powerful enough. THIS is why powerful hardware is so much more important, to run those windows and their openGL and webGL contexts. Current hardware is powerful, but a lot of stuff going on can still overpower it.

The way google tackles it is they build a cache. Say you are scrolling a list, all items are then pre-cached upon launching the list. So they only draw one "window", the list UI, say a contact list UI if you are in a contacts app. Scrolling simply fills the pre-cached items in the window instead of redrawing it with new data again. However, if you tap on "contact details" the contact details window (and a separate activity) will open. Good hardware PLUS good coding will make this process seamless.

Now here's the thing, the above seems to explain why skins lag when scrolling with lists and other UI because OEMs are probably not getting the hang of it.

And this is because google gives tremendous freedom to a dev. You can make your app flawlessly smooth, or a disaster. This is a double edged sword. Same like in iOS. Xcode already provides easy layout and coding tools, at the expense of flexibility.

And by the whole nature of separate sandboxed activities, android is in theory very secure, except the fact google allows apps to interact if given permissions during install. THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T GET A VIRUS WHEN VISITING A SITE ONLY ON YOUR ANDROID DEVICE.

I think an easy to understand example is contact list in TW. When I was scrolling it on a gs4 with 50+ items, it was grinding along. What I noticed was that after I turned off that air hover think that tries to follow my finger, it was smoother.

The gs4 all of a sudden was freed from that extra task, that extra activity, and having to render another window showing me the preview. Hence less work and smoother scrolling.

I hope this was helpful, as much as my lame attempt of making things easy to understand goes lol.

I guess this needed another quote seeing as we are getting no where :)
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors G3
Oct 27, 2009
8,878
10,987
No, when the system needs the resources it can kill any process

Your speaking more towards memory management, I'm speaking more on multitasking. My point to my original response is, it's up to the developer to decide if their app truly multitasks and/or what priority(for memory) is set for their app. Suspended state vs not.

For example, whether a video still play in the background or not.
 

RoboWarriorSr

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2013
889
52
Having had an android, the lag is mostly present after about 4 months into the phone use. This is usually after seeing a phone with less lag (like reviewer who see a lot of different phones will notice lag on devices with lesser hardware). Or after a major update to the device (2.2 -> 2.3 for example).
 

lsutigerfan1976

macrumors 68030
Sep 14, 2012
2,751
1,734
Like I said before. Most of my friends that have android phones admit to lags, stuttering etc. But they live with it, as a trade off for the openness of the android experience vs the iOS experience.
 

makinao

macrumors 6502
Dec 27, 2009
296
116
Most of my friends that have android phones admit to lags, stuttering etc. But they live with it, as a trade off for the openness of the android experience vs the iOS experience.

Are these top of the line models, or budget ones? I had a lower model HTC One V with ICS and Sense, and it was sluggish from the start. But my wifes HTC Hero (2.x Eclair with HTC Sense), which was a top of the line model in its time, doesn't stutter. So my guess is that top of the line overspec'd models are fine. Anything less will lag.
 

lsutigerfan1976

macrumors 68030
Sep 14, 2012
2,751
1,734
Are these top of the line models, or budget ones? I had a lower model HTC One V with ICS and Sense, and it was sluggish from the start. But my wifes HTC Hero (2.x Eclair with HTC Sense), which was a top of the line model in its time, doesn't stutter. So my guess is that top of the line overspec'd models are fine. Anything less will lag.

It's a mixture of different phones. I was surprised that one of my friends has AT&T and just traded his iPhone for a Samsung galaxy 4. And he complains about lag and stuff. But he is also used to IOS. He wanted to go back to his iPhone. Ironically I want to try the galaxy 4. (Just to try the phone, not that I have any complaints with my iPhone.)
 

Chodite

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2007
586
0
Baltimore, MD
I guess it's been about a month with my Galaxy S4 now and I'm seeing some stutter. Which sucks, because I'm now in constant memory-management mode. Clearing RAM and such, disabling things every now and then. Nothing too bad, but not as fluid of an experience as my iPhone 5 was.
 

SnowLeopard2008

macrumors 604
Jul 4, 2008
6,772
18
Silicon Valley
Fact. The way Android was designed inherently results in lag whenever it registers a touch event. Project Butter did alleviate this issue somewhat but it's still there. This is probably why Androids are always pushing for faster clock speed, more RAM and faster graphics. It's the brute force method of getting around the lag issue. This is also why Apple doesn't push as hard for those 3 things, iOS doesn't need it as much. Anyone saying there's no lag either tinkered around with the settings to make it less apparent (i.e. animations) or is in denial. It's like saying you shouldn't worry about viruses on Windows versus Mac OS X. With proper antivirus software installed and regularly updated, you shouldn't worry about viruses but they're still there and do exist.
 

Apollo 13

macrumors 6502a
May 29, 2010
679
16
Are these top of the line models, or budget ones? I had a lower model HTC One V with ICS and Sense, and it was sluggish from the start. But my wifes HTC Hero (2.x Eclair with HTC Sense), which was a top of the line model in its time, doesn't stutter. So my guess is that top of the line overspec'd models are fine. Anything less will lag.

lolz i remember that phone. It was the worst phone I ever had in my life and it did lag. Those were the days when I said my android phone was superior to the iphone. I was just justifying my purchase. All my android devices have been top of the line and all have suffered lag. I even purchased the GS4 and kept it for a couple of days and saw lag, but was expected since I read about it. I returned it and will wait and see what apple says about ios 7 and if they release any info on the 5s. Don't want to be trying to justify my purchase again if Apple releases the iphone 5s with a must have feature (finger print scanner).
 

TacticalDesire

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2012
2,286
23
Michigan
Having had an android, the lag is mostly present after about 4 months into the phone use. This is usually after seeing a phone with less lag (like reviewer who see a lot of different phones will notice lag on devices with lesser hardware). Or after a major update to the device (2.2 -> 2.3 for example).

6 months in for me with my Nexus 4 and the lag has yet to set in. Still crazy fast. I think the lag has more to do with manufacturers skins and the apps that are installed.
 

RoboWarriorSr

macrumors 6502a
Feb 23, 2013
889
52
6 months in for me with my Nexus 4 and the lag has yet to set in. Still crazy fast. I think the lag has more to do with manufacturers skins and the apps that are installed.

Well, it looked to seem that my HTC Inspire was faster compared to Motorola Atrix at the time..:rolleyes:
 

sentinelsx

macrumors 68010
Feb 28, 2011
2,004
0
Fact. The way Android was designed inherently results in lag whenever it registers a touch event. Project Butter did alleviate this issue somewhat but it's still there. This is probably why Androids are always pushing for faster clock speed, more RAM and faster graphics. It's the brute force method of getting around the lag issue. This is also why Apple doesn't push as hard for those 3 things, iOS doesn't need it as much. Anyone saying there's no lag either tinkered around with the settings to make it less apparent (i.e. animations) or is in denial. It's like saying you shouldn't worry about viruses on Windows versus Mac OS X. With proper antivirus software installed and regularly updated, you shouldn't worry about viruses but they're still there and do exist.

Looks like you didn't read the technical post above like many others and are now trying to pass off your knowledge as "fact" without knowing how android really works.

It is not because of how "touch unfriendly" android is, it is a combination of not fast enough hardware, poor coding, and gpu/CPU overload. Why? Scroll up and the answer is there in this page.

You can have a perfectly flawless lag free experience on android if your "skin" and apps are meticulously coded which is something that is improving very slowly unfortunately.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
I guess it's been about a month with my Galaxy S4 now and I'm seeing some stutter. Which sucks, because I'm now in constant memory-management mode. Clearing RAM and such, disabling things every now and then. Nothing too bad, but not as fluid of an experience as my iPhone 5 was.

That OCD behaviour pattern where you become a slave to the phone (not necesserily do you need to do so, but the desire for smoother operation compels you) one of the big deciding factors of why I decided not to keep the S4. I was already doing exactly what you said and I could see myself getting worse.
 

SnowLeopard2008

macrumors 604
Jul 4, 2008
6,772
18
Silicon Valley
Looks like you didn't read the technical post above like many others and are now trying to pass off your knowledge as "fact" without knowing how android really works.

It is not because of how "touch unfriendly" android is, it is a combination of not fast enough hardware, poor coding, and gpu/CPU overload. Why? Scroll up and the answer is there in this page.

You can have a perfectly flawless lag free experience on android if your "skin" and apps are meticulously coded which is something that is improving very slowly unfortunately.

No, it really is the opposite of what you think. It's not the hardware, it's the software. The skin and apps are part of "software" which are the two things you stated as being essential to a "perfectly flawless lag free experience". Hardware is more than enough at this point. As a developer myself, I think I'm in a better position to judge how Android works...
 

sentinelsx

macrumors 68010
Feb 28, 2011
2,004
0
No, it really is the opposite of what you think. It's not the hardware, it's the software. The skin and apps are part of "software" which are the two things you stated as being essential to a "perfectly flawless lag free experience". Hardware is more than enough at this point. As a developer myself, I think I'm in a better position to judge how Android works...

Lol shows you again didn't bother to read.

This is not my "opinion" mr. Developer, this is straight from an android team member on her google+ post (I think I even posted a link in another thread a couple months ago, I'll find it). I am sure someone who is making android is more knowledgeable than you. Go read what she said ok?
 

Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,725
13,245
UK
It's a fact and I won't have any android fan boy tell me any different. I have a Samsung galaxy note and samsung galaxy tab. Both lag quite badly, despite running Jelly bean. My galaxy tab isn't so bad I suppose but, the Note stutters all the time and freezes. My boyfriend has a galaxy S3 and that lags as well although not as much as my devices. It's ridiculous really. iOS devices are much smoother despite often having slower processors. I've never experienced lag on any iOS device.
 

sentinelsx

macrumors 68010
Feb 28, 2011
2,004
0
It's a fact and I won't have any android fan boy tell me any different. I have a Samsung galaxy note and samsung galaxy tab. Both lag quite badly, despite running Jelly bean. My galaxy tab isn't so bad I suppose but, the Note stutters all the time and freezes. My boyfriend has a galaxy S3 and that lags as well although not as much as my devices. It's ridiculous really. iOS devices are much smoother despite often having slower processors. I've never experienced lag on any iOS device.

Don't expect Samsung to have the software expertise of google or apple.

I can bet you the gs5 is going to have lag too. Sad but I see it happening.
 
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