Another Mac Pro 4,1 to 5,1 EFI Update Problem

[violinjjb]

I have a question:

I recently purchased a MacPro 5,1 from a third party, however, I realized upon receipt that it is really an upgraded 4,1 with the firmware update. It has a 6-core 3.49 Westmere in it.

I am writing because I want to know (before diving into it), if I reinstall OSX (for a clean install on a new SSD), what issues might I run into:

1) Is the firmware update built into the boot drive/OSX install or? If I replace the drive with existing boot drive a new SSD, will that effect the firmware upgradE?

2) If reinstalling the firmware update on the new SSD is needed, I have read that OSX won't boot into a 4,1 system on an un-supported CPU. Will I be able to get far enough into the OSX boot process to upgrade the firmware if I have a 6-core CPU?

3) Would it be better to do a system clone to the new SSD to get it working easily?

any thoughts would be great.

 

[h9826790]

Don't worry about it, the firmware is stored in the mobo, not the HDD / SSD. OSX installation won't do anything to the firmware. In simple terms, it won't brick your cMP (regardless your firmware version and CPU model).

Unless you want to get another CPU tray for your 4,1, you can treat your machine as a real 5,1. For the single CPU model, the only difference is almost just the SMC version.

 

[violinjjb]

Don't worry about it, the firmware is stored in the mobo, not the HDD / SSD. OSX installation won't do anything to the firmware. I simple terms, it won't brick your cMP (regardless your firmware version and CPU model).

Unless you want to get another CPU tray for your 4,1, you can treat your machine as a real 5,1. For the single CPU model, the only difference is almost just the SMC version.

Thank h9826790, I will try a fresh install directly on the new SSD (saving the old HDD just in case). It is a single CPU. Since I have been reading that there is no SMC update for 4.1/5.1, those numbers will remain different, right?

Thanks again for your input and advice. Glad to know the update resides on the Mobo/logicboard, so changing out the SSD won't mess with anything.

Now that it is a 5,1, can I swap out video cards if needed, or to I need to leave the GT120 in (EFI video card)?

 

[h9826790]

You can swap video card, and with proper driver installed, you can have HDMI (with audio output) as well (like the real 5,1).

 

[violinjjb]

You can swap video card, and with proper driver installed, you can have HDMI (with audio output) as well (like the real 5,1).

You mean HDMI via the display port since it supports audio and video on 5,1? or using a GPU with HDMI?

 

[h9826790]

GPU with HDMI, audio via Display port also works. However, for El Capitan, it require disable SIP.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Sorry to post on an old thread, but I'm having the same problem with my 4,1 as well.... BUT, there's a catch: my boot ROM is already updated to the latest one for my system. Why, then, is it giving me this issue?

(I am using a stock Radeon 4870.)

 

[h9826790]

Sorry to post on an old thread, but I'm having the same problem with my 4,1 as well.... BUT, there's a catch: my boot ROM is already updated to the latest one for my system. Why, then, is it giving me this issue?

(I am using a stock Radeon 4870.)

SIP Disabled?

Anyway, you can also try to install an older OS (e.g. Mavericks) and then perform the upgrade from there.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

SIP Disabled?

Anyway, you can also try to install an older OS (e.g. Mavericks) and then perform the upgrade from there.

Yes - and, yeah, I'm installing Mavericks as we speak. Hopefully, then, I can get this firmware update to work properly. It's odd that this happens, especially given that I have the correct boot ROM. I had no issues on my other 4,1 Mac Pro.

Edit: I guess my Mavericks installer is bugged. Funny thing is that I forgot that I'm using a machine which has a disc drive. I'll break out a Lion disk or something, if that OS is also viable.

 

[h9826790]

Yes - and, yeah, I'm installing Mavericks as we speak. Hopefully, then, I can get this firmware update to work properly. It's odd that this happens, especially given that I have the correct boot ROM. I had no issues on my other 4,1 Mac Pro.

Edit: I guess my Mavericks installer is bugged. Funny thing is that I forgot that I'm using a machine which has a disc drive. I'll break out a Lion disk or something, if that OS is also viable.

The Mavericks installer is a signed software. Apple update the certificate something like every 6 years. And from memory, the last certificate update was back in 2015. If you download that installer before that day, the installer will be disabled / broken / useless….

All you need to do is go back to AppStore, and download the Mavericks installer again from purchase history.

Of course, using a disk for older OS should also work.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

The Mavericks installer is a signed software. Apple update the certificate something like every 6 years. And from memory, the last certificate update was back in 2015. If you download that installer before that day, the installer will be disabled / broken / useless….

All you need to do is go back to AppStore, and download the Mavericks installer again from purchase history.

Of course, using a disk for older OS should also work.

I tried a Lion disc of ours, but it was glitched as well. Will Snow Leopard work for this? I have a genuine SL disk, which I can rely on in full.
[doublepost=1501400074][/doublepost]I can't believe this... it still would NOT work, with Mac OSX Lion. Perhaps I should swap the stock Radeon 4870 for a stock NVIDIA GT 120? Not sure about it, but it's worth a shot. It's just extremely annoying that this happens.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Darnit... same issue with the stock NVIDIA GPU. This darn thing just doesn't want to install! My boot ROM is fine and everything. I have not been able to find any other person who has made it this far and not been able to install. Usually, once stuck users downgrade to an earlier version of OSX and then try it, it works for them.

I have no idea what else to do. :-/

 

[h9826790]

Wait, you want a downgrade, or clean install of the old OSX. Downgrade sure won't work.
Boot from the disc. And install it on a clean drive should work.

4,1 can shipped with HD4870, I actually have this option. Snow leopard works fine, no need to swap GPU.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Wait, you want a downgrade, or clean install of the old OSX. Downgrade sure won't work.
Boot from the disc. And install it on a clean drive should work.

4,1 can shipped with HD4870, I actually have this option. Snow leopard works fine, no need to swap GPU.

I did try a downgrade. I wiped the drive completely and put Lion on it, and it still didn't work. I could try Snow Leopard, but I am having my doubts. Perhaps I need to try everything... Mavericks and Yosemite included.

 

[Synchro3]

Yes, try Snow Leopard. I did the firmware upgrade then with this OS.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Yes, try Snow Leopard. I did the firmware upgrade then with this OS.

Okay, I will try Snow Leopard. By the way, someone on some other thread mentioned that, if you accidentally do it the first time, within El Cap, with SIP still enabled, it puts the machine's firmware update process in some limbo mode. However, it was not clear if he went and tried it on an older OS, had it not work, and then went back to El Capitan to do it with SIP surely disabled - or if he forgot about El Cap altogether and was able to get it working fine on an older OS.

I'm fairly certain that I didn't try this with SIP enabled, but if I did in fact do so, could my machine be in a limbo state? I'll try SL first, though, because I would hate having to go back to El Capitan now.



"For future reference, if SIP is not disabled prior to mounting the firmware update package and running the firmware hack, the hack will go into a sort of limbo where the machine will not finish applying the hack, but will also be incapable of rolling back the changes already made by the hack, regardless of whether SIP is disabled or not. In this instance, re-applying the hack under 10.10 (or perhaps earlier, I don't know) is the only way to successfully complete the process, after which you can freely (with SIP disabled) roll back and apply the hack in El Capitan at will."

^^^I don't understand why this guy said that one could go BACK to El Capitan and then do it with SIP disabled. Is the point of going back to an older version of Mac OS - in the case that one tried first without disabling SIP - just a way to reverse things so that doing it without SIP, in El Cap, will work? Again, I am fairly certain that I turned off SIP before doing this flash, so this might not be my issue... but I am still wondering.
[doublepost=1501446166][/doublepost]

Yes, try Snow Leopard. I did the firmware upgrade then with this OS.

Just installed and tried Snow Leopard... and it STILL didn't work. At this point, I am scratching my head. I don't get this. Do I need to be connected to Ethernet or something? Wouldn't think so - this is a local update. So far, I have yet to try Mavericks and Yosemite. If neither of those works, I have no other options.

 

[Synchro3]

Ok.

1) The firmware of the 4,1 must be MP41.0081.B07. If it is not, download and install the EFI update from Apple
2) The firmware upgrader requires internet access and an EFI graphics card
3) Apple has removed/moved or otherwise changed the location for the MacProEFIUpdate1.5.dmg

-> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/firmware-tool-for-4-1-to-5-1-upgrade.1752143/#post-19333344

The MacProEFIUpdate.dmg must be mounted when starting the firmware upgrader

Here you go: http://forum.netkas.org/index.php?topic=8729.0;wap2

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Ok.

1) The firmware of the 4,1 must be MP41.0081.B07. If it is not, download and install the EFI update from Apple
2) The firmware upgrader requires internet access and an EFI graphics card
3) Apple has removed/moved or otherwise changed the location for the MacProEFIUpdate1.5.dmg

-> https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/firmware-tool-for-4-1-to-5-1-upgrade.1752143/#post-19333344

The MacProEFIUpdate.dmg must be mounted when starting the firmware upgrader

Here you go: http://forum.netkas.org/index.php?topic=8729.0;wap2

Yeah, I have the latest 4,1 firmware + an EFI card. I am beginning to think that the fact that I am simply on WiFi isn't cutting it. Perhaps I need to hook this machine up with Ethernet and then try it. If this was the issue all along, I'll be gobsmacked. I'm glad I questioned the fact that I am not on Ethernet, even if it sounded like a long-shot.

I'll post with further news..... thanks for the help so far.
[doublepost=1501451601][/doublepost]Nope. Tried Ethernet, and still nothing... I don't even believe it anymore that Yosemite, Mountain Lion, or Mavericks could make it work. I've already tried both Snow Leopard and Lion. I don't understand.

Does the restart process cause the Mac to connect to a non-existent Apple Web server or something? I get past that error just fine, by mounting the EFI update onto the desktop... but, upon restarting and hearing the tone, the machine simply reboots again and just goes through the normal boot-up process and brings me to the desktop. I'm so fed up.

 

[Synchro3]

Damn you got a stubborn machine.... Checked your Router?

Did you hold the power button after shutting down the Mac Pro until the lights stay?

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Damn you got a stubborn machine.... Checked your Router?

Did you hold the power button after shutting down the Mac Pro until the lights stay?

My Ethernet is fine, and I also held down the power button until the lights flashed. I've tried both things: holding down until lights flash and holding down until I hear the tone. Right now, I am gonna see if re-installing El Cap onto it and disabling SIP will allow this thing to work. If not, I will have exhausted all my options, save for trying Mavericks, Mountain Lion, and Yosemite... but I don't know if those will make a difference.

This is all so odd. I don't think I have seen anyone else with this stubborn of a Mac Pro. Not that this may matter, but do I hard shut my machine down before starting up again? I've been using the menu to shut it down.
[doublepost=1501456340][/doublepost]Why am I not surprised? I tried El Capitan, disabled SIP, and the update still DID NOT WORK. I'm at the end of my rope here. This is the most stubborn Mac Pro on the planet. I have no idea what else to do.

Could there be some hardware fault? Nasty RAM? I can't begin with think what could be the issue.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Damn you got a stubborn machine.... Checked your Router?

Did you hold the power button after shutting down the Mac Pro until the lights stay?

Holy cow, I got it to work! Tried a spare HDD I had, which had an old installation of 10.8.5 on it, and it worked just fine! I'm thinking that changing the HDD I was using was perhaps what decided to let this work. Either that or 10.8.5 is the magical OS? I don't know. I guess the HDD I was using wasn't liked. I could imagine how frustrating it could be for those who don't have extra hard drives sitting around.

Thanks for sticking with me and providing suggestions, guys. I can finally rest this case now. Time to load Sierra onto this machine. If you're wondering, I picked up this 8-core 4,1 for only $100. My current one I use was free, and I made that into a 12-core beast. I might do the same with this one, as I notice now that X5670s dipped in price. They're down to about $70, compared to the 150-dollar average which they were some months ago. In any case, it should fetch a nice profit, or I give it to a family member.

 

[h9826790]

Does the RESTART process cause the Mac to connect to a non-existent Apple Web server or something? I get past that error just fine, by mounting the EFI update onto the desktop... but, upon restarting and hearing the tone, the machine simply reboots again and just goes through the normal boot-up process and brings me to the desktop. I'm so fed up.

NOT restart, but complete shutdown. Then press and hold the power button to cold boot.

Anyway, it seems you fixed it. Never thing about a HDD can run the OS flawlessly but incompatible to firmware update.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

NOT restart, but complete shutdown. Then press and hold the power button to cold boot.

Anyway, it seems you fixed it. Never thing about a HDD can run the OS flawlessly but incompatible to firmware update.

Yeah, I meant hard shutdown and cold startup (a manual restart). Not sure why the HDD was at fault either; but, thank God that I fixed it.

 

[smcimarty]

Yeah, I meant hard shutdown and cold startup (a manual restart). Not sure why the HDD was at fault either; but, thank God that I fixed it.

[doublepost=1508200147][/doublepost]Not sure if this is the correct place but I'm having an issue with the update from 4.1 to 5.1. I got it to update but whenever I try to restart all I get is the fans on and the power light flashing. If I hold down the power button to shut down and then try to start it will boot. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

[doublepost=1508200147][/doublepost]Not sure if this is the correct place but I'm having an issue with the update from 4.1 to 5.1. I got it to update but whenever I try to restart all I get is the fans on and the power light flashing. If I hold down the power button to shut down and then try to start it will boot. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

What do you mean when you say that you got it to update? If you're not seeing it boot, it's not updated. Are you locked out of your Mac Pro?