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Any German Beta user? Eigentümer:in seen in a screenshot

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Alwis said:
But "Studenten" and "Studierende" are not exactly the same. A "Student" or "Studentin" is someone, who is enrolled in a university, "Studierende" are people how are actual studying, regardless if enrolled in a University or not. And not every "Student" is a "Studierender" at any time, sometimes, they sleep or go to a pub.

Maybe this sound constructed
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It kind of does.

I'm also not entirely sure it's even correct — "Was macht Lara? Die studiert" doesn't have to mean she's literally reading a textbook right now any more than "Peter arbeitet in einer Behörde" means Peter can't be on vacation right now.

The gerund applies to a current, ongoing process, and something that takes multiple years seems to fit.

(Which is not to say I particularly like "Studierende". It feels like a compromise.)

Alwis said:
and in most cases of the above example you could probably guess the meaning from the context. But my point is, that the language looses is subtle nuances.
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It does, but it also gains something in the process.

And I suspect you wouldn't use "Studierende" in the strict sense of "they are in a lecture right this moment" very often.
 
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Alwis said:
Yes, languages evolve, but gradually over time and not imposed by someone who thinks he nows better. We had this in the 90ties where some sort of committee thought they would know better. This has ruined some aspects of the German language up until today.
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Has it, though? The new ß rules make a lot more sense, for example (but still aren't perfect, IMO).

Alwis said:
Here in Germany the fast (silent) majority rejects using some sort of "gender neutral" language,
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Such tides shift over time. The majority was also against gay marriage for a long time.

 
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Diskutant said:
Uhm, this thread was started because iOS 15 and macOS 12 do that.View attachment 1796269
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German texts version "Multiple choice" Just take the endings, you think they are correct. If you do not know the language quite well, then you will probably fail.

THIS is really getting ridiculous here.
..."versucht, diesen Benutzerin" or probably
..."versucht diese Benutzer" - New option, MULTIPLE USERS in one account.

Furthermore it is only 50%, because in the password request, it miraculously reverts to "...den Benutzer" again.
 
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Has it, though? The new ß rules make a lot more sense, for example (but still aren't perfect, IMO).
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Maybe, but a lot of people do not know or use them, how often do you see "Strasse" instead of "Straße" or "Masse" and "Maße" confused. But a lot of new problems habe been introduced. And in on my opinion the language hast lost a lot eg. when changing the writing of words originally from other languages.

Such tides shift over time. The majority was also against gay marriage for a long time.
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I do not think, that this is a good comparison... I would guess, that most gays never habe been opposed to gay marriage, but all of the woman I know are against gender neutral language.


I'm also not entirely sure it's even correct — "Was macht Lara? Die studiert" doesn't have to mean she's literally reading a textbook right now any more than "Peter arbeitet in einer Behörde" means Peter can't be on vacation right now.
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As I wrote, probably not the best example but my point is still valid.
 
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chucker23n1 said:
Has it, though? The new ß rules make a lot more sense, for example (but still aren't perfect, IMO).



Such tides shift over time. The majority was also against gay marriage for a long time.
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This seems to be more of a problem to the academic circles. The majority of the German population does really not care about these issues.

Do you seriously think that the cashier at Lidl cares about whether gender neutral terms are being used or not? 🤣🤣
 
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shadyman said:
This seems to be more of a problem to the academic circles. The majority of the German population does really not care about these issues.

Do you seriously think that the cashier at Lidl cares about whether gender neutral terms are being used or not? 🤣🤣
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Does it matter? The “cashier at Lidl” likely also doesn’t care about foreign policy in Eastern Europe and climate change effects on insects; doesn’t mean there aren’t politicians who need to figure those topics out.
 
chucker23n1 said:
Does it matter? The “cashier at Lidl” likely also doesn’t care about foreign policy in Eastern Europe and climate change effects on insects; doesn’t mean there aren’t politicians who need to figure those topics out.
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That’s also a significant reason why people are tending to vote for the right parties in the EU. These politicians are more and more detached from actual issues people are facing.

But I think we should stop this conversation here since it’s derailing from the topic and this isn’t the politics section of the forum. 🤗
 
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In Dutch there is a tendency (since at least 15 years) to no longer use female versions of words such as job titles. For example there is directeur for Direktor and directrice for Direktorin but nowadays everyone uses directeur for both Direktor and Direktorin.
 
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shadyman said:
That’s also a significant reason why people are tending to vote for the right parties in the EU. These politicians are more and more detached from actual issues people are facing.

But I think we should stop this conversation here since it’s derailing from the topic and this isn’t the politics section of the forum. 🤗
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First of all I would like to honour the culture in this discussion we are showing here at MR. I was really thinking about to bring this German thing here in an international forum, but I see there are other languages talking about that as well. It is about language, it is about language politics as well in a certain sense. Usually this gender theme ends up in bashing eachother for not looking at the awareness of everybody. Immediately. No compromise.

I think it is important to talk about it and find a way to be aware of eachother, see what is possible in a language or what just destroys parts of a language in favor of just obeying "laws" introduced to avoid any condradictory discussion.

At the very end it is also a discussion about how to talk to users in an operating system like IOS. It is not a book punched in Braille, it is not Ulysses from James Joyce, it is not a comic with bubbles, but everyone should be included to be able to use it.
 
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chucker23n1 said:
Has it, though? The new ß rules make a lot more sense, for example (but still aren't perfect, IMO).



Such tides shift over time. The majority was also against gay marriage for a long time.
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They still are... Politics just overrule them and wonder why AfD gets so much votes.
 
Dranix said:
They still are... Politics just overrule them and wonder why AfD gets so much votes.
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m.focus.de

Frau Merkel, das schaffen Sie!: Mehrheit der Deutschen will die Ehe für alle

´Beschämend´ findet Hape Kerkeling, einer von Deutschlands bekanntesten Schwulen, dass gleichgeschlechtliche Paare nicht genauso heiraten dürfen wie Mann und Frau. Eine neue Umfrage zeigt, dass die Mehrheit der Deutschen wohl auch so denkt.
m.focus.de m.focus.de

Four years ago, Emnid pegged it at 75% pro-gay marriage, and a state poll at 83%.

So, nah.
 
language is a living thing (just speaking as someone with a degree in linguistic) and it's good that german becomes more inclusive. Be it non-binary or just cracking open patriarchy-structures. Our language is heavily gendered and one of the worst in excluding people. Be it the "generische maskulin" everywhere or just general backwards policies.
So this is a great change. 🤷
 
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monol0g said:
language is a living thing (just speaking as someone with a degree in linguistic) and it's good that german becomes more inclusive. Be it non-binary or just cracking open patriarchy-structures. Our language is heavily gendered and one of the worst in excluding people. Be it the "generische maskulin" everywhere or just general backwards policies.
So this is a great change. 🤷
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We should indeed be aware of if and use including expressions, I agree. But it is not really desirable to waste the restricted space on screen in an operating system by adding long, unreadable expressions like "Freund:innen" everywhere. Besides that, in that case it should be "Freund:e:innen" to RELLY become correct...

Furthermore, I would not listen at, what assistive speech does with these constructions.
 
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Moderator Note:

We don't allow discussion of politics or social issues outside the Political News threads. For that reason, this thread is closed.
 
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