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  • what "problem" does modularity solve?
  • how many problems does it create?
Also, with the design and appearance focus at Apple, a messy looking idea like this will never happen.
  • Solutions and advantages
    1. Low entry price for new customers.
    2. Increases market share and unit sales because of #1.
    3. Lowers unit manufacturing costs.
    4. Allows Apple to deploy budgets more dynamically because of #3.
    5. Allows end users to scale to purpose.
    6. It's greener - costs less to run and allows Apple to advertise "green".
    7. Allows users better aesthetics (ergonomics) in the office or home.
    8. Increases the portability/luggability factors.
    9. Decreases heat in small rooms and offices.
    10. With Apple brand loyalty and projected option-box prices it will increase total profit margins for Apple.
    11. Insure a longer MacPro product-line longevity because #10.
    12. Probably reduce system noise.
    13. Reduced shipping fees and increase logistical deployment.

  • Problems and disadvantages
    1. Higher cost for end users wanting large scale systems.
    2. Product recognition may suffer.
    3. Product comprehension may suffer - already evident in this very thread.
This assumes of course that average MacPro end user configurations remain about the same. I guess the vast majority of MacPro users use one PCIe slot for the GFX card and one extra HDD for data storage. And the one extra HDD is probably 50/50 with folks who only use just the one system drive for everything.

Thinking that modularity has a negative impact on aesthetics is not correct. Just visit a design expo and look around and some of the extremely cool designs which incorporate modularity into their theme. Wow! Awesome potential for increased beauty and coolness factor!!
 
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My thoughts in red.
  • Solutions and advantages
    1. Low entry price for new customers.
    2. Increases market share and unit sales because of #1.
    3. Lowers unit manufacturing costs.
    4. Allows Apple to deploy budgets more dynamically because of #3.
    5. Allows end users to scale to purpose.
    6. It's greener - costs less to run and allows Apple to advertise "green". I challenge you on this.
    7. Allows users better aesthetics (ergonomics) in the office or home.
    8. Increases the portability/luggability factors.
    9. Decreases heat in small rooms and offices. Because that heat is trapped in tiny modules!
    10. With Apple brand loyalty and projected option-box prices it will increase total profit margins for Apple.
    11. Insure a longer MacPro product-line longevity because #10.
    12. Probably reduce system noise. I think it would increase noise and use more energy, as smaller fans are less efficient at moving air. Therefore, more small fans and more energy to move them = LESS green.
    13. Reduced shipping fees and increase logistical deployment. Hmm, shipping more likely to wash out or increase, because more pieces individually packaged do not make it cheaper.

  • Problems and disadvantages
    1. Higher cost for end users wanting large scale systems.
    2. Product recognition may suffer.
    3. Product comprehension may suffer - already evident in this very thread.
This assumes of course that average MacPro end user configurations remain about the same. I guess the vast majority of MacPro users use one PCIe slot for the GFX card and one extra HDD for data storage. And the one extra HDD is probably 50/50 with folks who only use just the one system drive for everything.

Thinking that modularity has a negative impact on aesthetics is not correct. Just visit a design expo and look around and some of the extremely cool designs which incorporate modularity into their theme. Wow! Awesome potential for increased beauty and coolness factor!!

I think it's an *interesting* idea to go modular, but will take pure genius to make it work well. If they can pull it off, then they will be rewarded with awesome sales. Given how long it's been since a Mac Pro update, I think it's possible, but I'm not holding my breath by any means.
 
#6. Why would it cost more to power fewer components and smaller MB?
#9. No, because it uses less power. Less power = less heat.
#12. Not smaller fans! And less power creating less heat needs less airflow to cool - thus quieter.
#13. Read the assumption at the bottom of the lists. I guess around 80% of MP users will just order the main box and not any of the option boxes.

And yes, this is another meaningless dream-thread. Probably none of it will come true.
 
I'd be interested in knowing how you think a modular system would be cheaper than a general purpose design assuming the same core components (CPU, RAM, GPU, and storage - which is where most of the cost lies) after you factor in the added R&D, special interconnects, multiple enclosures, added testing burden, and support complexity.
 
No, what a silly idea.

Mac Pro as it is now with dedicated SSD slots + updated innards.

It's a very simple concept!!
 
Low entry price for new customers.
Apple already has entry level products for desktop and several IOS form factors. They historically have tried to avoid to much overlap between product lines.

Increases market share and unit sales because of #1.
It's not increased market share if it is just cannibalizing Mac mini and iMac sales.
Lowers unit manufacturing costs.
what does? Such a flexible design may (or may not) incurr very high manufacturing costs depending on how they manufacture it. There will also be a significant tooling cost for such a compete departure from previous form factors.

Allows Apple to deploy budgets more dynamically because of #3.
not really. There will be a significant spooling up cost associated with a new form factor, plus there is packaging, shipping and inventory to take into account. If this were a real plan it would have the potential to tie down large amounts of capital in contingencies.

Allows end users to scale to purpose.
That is essentially the only benefit. However the buzz for "scalability" is either "the cloud" or harnessing GPU(S) for more horsepower. Most folks I know that are interested in scalable computing are building clusters with commodity server hardware (Supermicro is popular) and using their mac as the window into their render farms.

It's greener - costs less to run and allows Apple to advertise "green".
Multiple enclosures is actually a recipe for inefficiency. I'd need to something that proves that mutiple enclosures (each with their own voltage regulation and thermal control) can be more efficient than a single multi cpu chassis with several big fans, thermal management and unified power system.
Allows users better aesthetics (ergonomics) in the office or home.
I am not sure you understand the meaning of those words? They are not synonyms. If anything aesthetics are often contrary to ergonomics and vice versa. Apple has historically put aesthetics ahead of ergonomics. Their products look great. But the hard edges on the MBP, lack of height adjustment on displays/iMacs, non-adjustable keyboards...

Increases the portability/luggability factors.

I'm highly skeptical of this, but I suppose it is possible that a pile of discrete components could be portable. I think the goals of portability and modularity are somewhat contrary. It would be easy to connect modules by cabling, but if it is intended to be portable you'd probably want some kind of nesting/docking interface. That I think would be awful. Too much potential for dust/boogers/coffee to get in the data path.

Decreases heat in small rooms and offices.
I can't think of any aspect of modularity that means less heat.

With Apple brand loyalty and projected option-box prices it will increase total profit margins for Apple.
You are basically re-iterating points you have already made.

Insure a longer MacPro product-line longevity because #10.
I disagree, if they chose to take this path with the mac pro they could potentially lose customers in droves. Quite a few enterprise Mac users fight tooth and nail to use the "non-standard" Macintosh in what is a primarily PC world. An exotic modular Mac such as you describe would have even less chance in such an environ.
Probably reduce system noise.
Reduced shipping fees and increase logistical deployment.
hmmmm actually I think the opposite. You should see how much packaging goes into a blade server setup.
One whole box for the chassis. Then a dozen pizza boxes for the blades.
 

Wow, Über-trolling.... You really wanna discuss and groundlessly ping-pong speculations on all of those points? Man, you have more will and free time than I!

Someone asked what the potential advantages were. Those are all (without exception) potential advantages. You can spend your time tearing into alternate and opposite potentials of each if you like. <shrug>

I'll just watch... :)
 
Apple already has entry level products for desktop and several IOS form factors. They historically have tried to avoid to much overlap between product lines.

Not really. Mac mini (No expansion), iMac (No expansion) and starting at $2500 the Mac Pro (Only Mac that offers any expansion.

Where is the entry level Mac that offers even a little bit of expansion?
 
Not really. Mac mini (No expansion), iMac (No expansion) and starting at $2500 the Mac Pro (Only Mac that offers any expansion.

Where is the entry level Mac that offers even a little bit of expansion?

They exist... In the past... as MacPro 1,1 for $400 or so and MacPro 3,1 for $800 or so. :)

I know, I know, I'm such a smarty-pants. :D
 
Not really. Mac mini (No expansion), iMac (No expansion) and starting at $2500 the Mac Pro (Only Mac that offers any expansion.

Where is the entry level Mac that offers even a little bit of expansion?
Well you can't say that all macs with no card slots are simply unexpandable. They have thunderbolt and USB right? Pretty much anything butt the most esoteric peripherals are found in both internal and external form factors these days. It's just not as graceful a solution to have a pile of boxes and cables as a box that holds those expansion peripherals internally.
Heck, you could almost say the converse about the Mac Pro because it ONLY has PCIe and firewire for peripherals. So you have to mount the drives and other devices internally to get the best bandwidth. But that would be silly to say that.

Honestly half the people in our marketing dept use Mac Pro's with ZERO expansion or peripherals. And what they do use is certainly not anything that wouldnt work as well or better with an iMac or Mac mini.
 
Well you can't say that all macs with no card slots are simply unexpandable.
Except that they are. :)


They have thunderbolt and USB right?
That's not expansion, that's urban sprawl. :D


But all seriousness aside,
Honestly half the people in our marketing dept use Mac Pro's with ZERO expansion or peripherals. And what they do use is certainly not anything that wouldnt work as well or better with an iMac or Mac mini.
They all have to have a display card right? I bet none of those display cards work in the Mac Mini or the iMac. :)


I do know what you mean tho. I bet 75% of MP users underuse their machines.
 
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Except that they are. :)



That's not expansion, that's urban sprawl. :D


But all seriousness aside,

They all have to have a display card right? I bet none of those display cards work in the Mac Mini or the iMac. :)


I do know what you mean tho. I bet 75% of MP users underuse their machines.
Video cards are pretty much the ONLY thing to have a Mac pro for that you cant necessarily upgrade on the other Mac desktops. But the point is kind of moot. Mac Pro video cards offerings are currently kind of weak. The best card you can get for an iMac or a Pro are virtually the same card.
GeForce GTX 680mx or GeForce GTX 680?
 
Video cards are pretty much the ONLY thing to have a Mac pro for that you cant necessarily upgrade on the other Mac desktops. But the point is kind of moot. Mac Pro video cards offerings are currently kind of weak. The best card you can get for an iMac or a Pro are virtually the same card.
GeForce GTX 680mx or GeForce GTX 680?

Well, I think the offerings aren't weak, per-say... You can install any card you like - just like a PC. The only difference is that you don't get a boot-screen with some cards. And really if you want that I don't think there is a card out there which can't be made to do it with a simple firmware upgrade (unofficial or not). Also I think there is like, a really massive difference between the GTX 680mx and a GTX 680.

Secondly, there is also a plethora of other types of cards out there. USB2, USB3, USB3 with RAID in mind, Firewire, eSATA, SATA II/III RAID, SAS RAID, Thinner-NET NICs, Fibre Channel, Pro Sound Cards, PCIe RAM Drives, SDI/Video editing cards, dedicated DSP Accelerator Cards, Multifunction Data Acquisition for CNC & Machine sensing & control, and Slot expansion boxes when ya run out of internal ones too:


NA255A_Expansion_Backplane_Large.jpg


So while I take your point that MacPro's are usually underused, one of the features that people are paying for when selecting a MacPro is the ability and potential to upgrade and configure however they like. There really is quite a lot more one can do with a MacPro.
 
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How is a modular design any different that 80 external drives, cloud GPU, or even external GPU?

How does making a product with a life span similar to the Pro benefit Apple in any way?

Doesn't Apple have about 6% of market share in PC sales?

How much of that 6% do you think are Pro users?

Are those few people even worth Apples time to market to in today's market?
 
How is a modular design any different that 80 external drives, cloud GPU, or even external GPU?

That's not really a serious question tho, right?

How does making a product with a life span similar to the Pro benefit Apple in any way?

This too seems rhetorical to me. It's not obvious to you or are you making a point that I seem to be missing?

Doesn't Apple have about 6% of market share in PC sales?

How much of that 6% do you think are Pro users?

I have no idea.

Are those few people even worth Apples time to market to in today's market?
Of course we are.
 
Secondly, there is also a plethora of other types of cards out there. USB2, USB3, USB3 with RAID in mind, Firewire, eSATA, SATA II/III RAID, SAS RAID, Thinner-NET NICs, Fibre Channel, Pro Sound Cards, PCIe RAM Drives, SDI/Video editing cards, dedicated DSP Accelerator Cards, Multifunction Data Acquisition for CNC & Machine sensing & control, and Slot expansion boxes when ya run out of internal ones too:

Just wondering - have you personally used either the NA250A or NA255A? Any luck with using non-GPU PCIe cards in any of them? Specifically curious about port expanders (eSATA, USB3), video I/O cards (Blackmagic, AJA, etc.), SSD adapters, etc.
 
I can only hope that the design of the Mac Pro stays as it is in the future. I have no intrest in a modular system as mentioned by the TS.
But I am afraid that Apple will keep the Mac Pro users waiting forever...
 
Just wondering - have you personally used either the NA250A or NA255A? Any luck with using non-GPU PCIe cards in any of them? Specifically curious about port expanders (eSATA, USB3), video I/O cards (Blackmagic, AJA, etc.), SSD adapters, etc.

This is where search is your friend.
 
This is where search is your friend.

Didn't know search had information on Tesselator's PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the specific piece of hardware that's being referenced. Searching threads turns up nothing but this one...
 
Didn't know search had information on Tesselator's PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the specific piece of hardware that's being referenced. Searching threads turns up nothing but this one...

That is the correct way to go about it. Then you say hey I did a quick search and it doesn't show any one using xyz any one use one?
 
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That's not really a serious question tho, right?



This too seems rhetorical to me. It's not obvious to you or are you making a point that I seem to be missing?



I have no idea.


Of course we are.

Ok so I did have a point.
Modular design is pretty much what we have with a iMac or Mini, or Laptops.

Because if you want more than it has, you have to buy separate units to augment its abilities.
It bases all the modules on some sort of high speed inter-connect such as TB, eSATA, or USB3, USB2 (too slow to be practical for large files) or, whatever else can be thought up.
The clutter of all these external devices does nothing for me but make a mess on my desk.
The point about the % of market share, is only that us Pro users are a very small group, but if you added in the windows users that prefer towers, and the professional users you would have a reasonable number of people in a market, but it is a shrinking group.
Cloud services are kicking it up a few notches, and trying to capture professional users. Which would reduce the number needing workstations farther.
Planned obsolescence is alive and well at Apple.
Personally I see the Mini, iMac, and laptops as disposable computers. Just like the iPads and iPhones.

"No user serviceable parts contained within"

More thoughts on this
An Intel rumor
Still more Intel speculation
 
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Just wondering - have you personally used either the NA250A or NA255A? Any luck with using non-GPU PCIe cards in any of them? Specifically curious about port expanders (eSATA, USB3), video I/O cards (Blackmagic, AJA, etc.), SSD adapters, etc.

No. I haven't tried either of them. There's also a few other makes making PCIe expansion boxes too - so if you're thinking about going this route you might wanna do some searching.

They should work the treat with I/O cards like you're thinking about tho.

----------

Ok so I did have a point.
Modular design is pretty much what we have with a iMac or Mini, or Laptops.

Ah, I see.

I don't agree tho. The form-factors are radically different. Also, there's some pretty severe speed hits going that way too. It's too different IMO to consider the two to be at all similar. That's kinda why I called them Urban Sprawl. :)

See here for one example: http://www.fcp.co/hardware-and-soft...k-like-peter-zigich-proposes-a-modular-design



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Personally I see the Mini, iMac, and laptops as disposable computers. Just like the iPads and iPhones.

That I can agree with. :)
 
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