Anyone else think the Microsoft bashing at WWDC went too far?

[zap2]

Come on.. Apple did this with Tiger aswell ("RedMond start your photocopyers")
but they stepped it up with year(and they should Vista is the first new MS OS in a while, ands its mostly Apple based stuff) i mean Gadgets and Aero.. it low on MS half.

But really its all in good fun, Apple's joking around with MS, Apple clearly is not waging a war with MS or they wouldn't support BootCamp(and heck even put ads about running XP on a Mac)

 

[hulugu]

Except the iPod has nothing to do with computing. Yesterday, they werent slandering Microsofts upcoming MP3 player onstage they were slandering Windows which Microsoft has never done before to Apple OS X/computers. And MS running ONE reverse switch ad? Umm, I'd call that a fair retaliation to Apple's countless switch CAMPAIGNS. You Apple zealots are distubing how you will twist the story in any way to conform with your blind no holds barred worship of Apple.

I have a little rule, similar to Godwins, in that the minute someone calls someone else a zealot, fanboi, or some other variation (say sheep) they have ceased saying useful things.

Also, you need to look up the word slander.

 

[zap2]

Except the iPod has nothing to do with computing. Yesterday, they werent slandering Microsofts upcoming MP3 player onstage they were slandering Windows which Microsoft has never done before to Apple OS X/computers. And MS running ONE reverse switch ad? Umm, I'd call that a fair retaliation to Apple's countless switch CAMPAIGNS. You Apple zealots are distubing how you will twist the story in any way to conform with your blind no holds barred worship of Apple.

Yes.. i agree Apple should not put out ads saying the pluses about OS X.. why would they want to make money?

Also its clear Apple does not hate MS, as the support MS's OS on Apple's hardware.

 

[dpaanlka]

So who else thought Apple went a little too far with the anti-Microsoft stuff yesterday?

Not me

 

[zoziw]

I thought the jabs yesterday went a little far. Should have left it at the commercial.

I thought it was interesting they brought out someone who didn't speak very good english to talk about Vista. Almost felt like a jab against Roz at MS who doesn't speak as clearly as most presenters do.

 

[GFLPraxis]

I think it's about time. It's rather true. Last year, Apple made a single crack about the photocopiers, but Microsoft actually did go and outright copy EVERYTHING. If it was just a bunch of rude cracks I'd be unhappy, but Apple went up onstage and showed comparison shots. They brought proof, not accusations.

 

[BGil]

I do agree that Apple (Steve and Bertrand mostly) went a bit far in poking at Microsoft.

But I don't think Steve said anything about being the first to make virtual desktops. Just "a new way of working with your Mac." He didn't say a new way of working, no matter what OS.

Let Steve be bitter. His actions shouldn't reflect on your opinion of the OS. Apple has great engineers, to be able to do what MS does in a fraction of the time. And if you had an OS as great as OS X, Amiga, OS/2, or Linux, and the rest of the world didn't notice, you'd be pissed off as hell too. Like when you know the way to do a math problem really easily and the person you are helping doesn't get it.

Microsoft doesn't need to run FUD or make fun of Mac OS though. There's enough ignorant people and "my computer is better than yours" types to make up for it. "Macs are incompatible with the Internet ... Macs are for creative types ... Macs use special memory and incompatible hard drives" ... ugh.

I've seen a lot of people saying "Time Machine" is copied from Windows System Restore or Vista's Previous Versions. It's not. Please stop thinking that. Incremental file backups is a lot better than volume shadow copy. Saving only what changes is a lot more efficient than making a copy of the file every time there's a change. And with System Restore, only Microsoft's files get saved. Not yours.

System Restore, Previous Versions, and Backup in Vista are all based on the new volume shadow copy service. It does in fact have copy on write and bit-level change deltas (Time Machine does not). Never does it make a complete copy of a file that is already backed up. I'm not sure who told you that it didn't work that way.

Time Machine also requires a dedicated partition just for it's services, Vista does not. Time Machine backs up at timed intervals not after every change like Vista does.

Volume Shadow Copy in Vista (which is what runs Backup, System Restore, and Previous Docs) is far superior technologically to Time Machine.

 

[7on]

Time Machine is just Apple's Backup only prettified and works without .Mac.

There, the secret has been solved.

 

[_Matt]

C'mon guys. Apple users have been pushed around for years by Microsoft. PC users have laughed in our faces as we helplessly defended the PowerPC and its supposed greatness. It's time for us to show those PC geeks what we're made of. If people thought Apple went too far at WWDC, I can't imagine what those people will think when this competition really heats up in Winter/Spring '07. Silicon Valley is going to need a few more heat sinks.

P.S. I love Bertron's accent. It's the greatest!

 

[Timepass]

C'mon guys. Apple users have been pushed around for years by Microsoft. PC users have laughed in our faces as we helplessly defended the PowerPC and its supposed greatness. It's time for us to show those PC geeks what we're made of. If people thought Apple went too far at WWDC, I can't imagine what those people will think when this competition really heats up in Winter/Spring '07. Silicon Valley is going to need a few more heat sinks.

P.S. I love Bertron's accent. It's the greatest!

and yet apple had to eat their words about Powerpc in the end. Trashing intel x86 one year and then the following year using them.

 

[LoveMacMini]

Let the product speak for itself, those bastards had Vista 2.0 banners and hasta la vista banners, but what was showed off was completly dull and boring.

Time Machine is a pretty UI version of Windows Shadow Copy.

If they wanted to stick it to Microsoft they should have spent more time from their keynote to show off Leopard than going LOL VISTA IS LATE, LOL VISTA IS COPYING US, LOL THEY'RE SO SLOW DURRRR

I swear apple must hire middle school kids to work for their PR departments.

Let the products show themselves off, Mr. Jobs keeps on forgetting that even tho he said it at MacWorld Boston in 1997

"For Apple to win, it isn't about making Microsoft lose. We have to make better, more compeling products"

yet the keynote came off as super smug. personally i can't wait until jobs steps down because he represents everything i don't like about apple.

 

[_Matt]

and yet apple had to eat their words about Powerpc in the end. Trashing intel x86 one year and then the following year using them.

Precisely. It's not about the quality of the product any more when it comes to Apple and Microsoft. It's now about effective marketing and marketshare territories. This is the crossroads of both companies, and right now it is difficult to say who will come out victorious in accomplishing their goals.

 

[hulugu]

and yet apple had to eat their words about Powerpc in the end. Trashing intel x86 one year and then the following year using them.

Actually Apple trashed x86 for a while and then went quiet, even about the megahurtz myth, especially after the introduction of the G5. And, remember Apple was bagging on the P2 -> P4 which weren't all that great.

But, the new chips are really impressive. The architecture of the PPC remains cleaner and more efficient, but manufacturing those chips the same way that Intel has with the Core Duo, etc. has been a problem.

Intel deserves all their kudos, but at one time the x86 architecture was crap.

Things change.

 

[7on]

and yet apple had to eat their words about Powerpc in the end. Trashing intel x86 one year and then the following year using them.

And the Pentium 4 still sucks.

 

[dsnort]

So who else thought Apple went a little too far with the anti-Microsoft stuff yesterday?

Hmmmm! Let's review:

1 M$ is a huge company, a monolith. I don't think Gates, Bawl-mer, and company are crying on their way to the bank over the mean things some Apple exec said about them.

2.M$ has a long history of copying other companies products, those that they don't buy outright.

3.M$ has a long history of anti-competitive business practices.

4.M$ has been sued numerous times for their unethical behavior.

5.M$ has been caught numerous times falsifying evidence at these trials.

6.Former M$ employees have admitted falsifying testimony at these trials.

7.At the Government v. M$ anti-trust suit, the behavior of M$ top execs, including Bill Gates, was so obviously, blatantly, and egregiously contemptious of the legal process as to prompt Judge Jackson to comment on it. (Which led to the judgement against them being overturned on appeal)

I guess my view on the jabs Apple took at M$ is....at least they made people laugh. The real truth isn't all that funny!

 

[timswim78]

Yes, I think that Apple went off on an out-of-touch-with-reality ego trip.

I would go into detail about how so many of the things that were said were off base, but this message would go on forever. I don't own a Mac because I hat MS. I own a Mac, because I like Mac's. I also happen to like SUSE Linux, Windows XP, and Windows 2000 and use them all regularly.

Aside from all of the details that Apple convoluted, I would like to point out the 800 pound gorilla that is standing in the corner. MS could play the same game if they wanted to tout MS Office and point out how Apple has failed miserably at coming to market with an office suite that is fully-feature and can actually do the work that is required in an office environment.

 

[VanNess]

System Restore, Previous Versions, and Backup in Vista are all based on the new volume shadow copy service...etc., etc., etc.

The purpose and intention of Time machine is to provide a simple, warm and fuzzy interface for steering users into making comprehensive, real world backups. It appears to succeed quite well in that intention, and the allusions to Vista's system restore, et al, is comparing, once again, apples to oranges. It may sound self-reassuring to MS fanboys who are given to swallow just about anything self-reassuring, but the simple fact that Time machine doesn't backup to your primary hard drive (which, for the intended purpose of backups, would be insane) and backs up to a separate drive pretty much shows Vista and Leopard approach the methodology differently.

 

[VanNess]

The architecture of the PPC remains cleaner and more efficient, but manufacturing those chips the same way that Intel has with the Core Duo, etc. has been a problem. Intel deserves all their kudos, but at one time the x86 architecture was crap. Things change.

When the G5 was originally introduced, it was one amazing, powerful chip (and still is for most users), and a giant leap forward for Apple. So the Intel bashing at the time in terms of performance was well justified. But that didn't last long. The problem with the G5 wasn't it's architecture, it was IBM's absolutely anemic updates to it. It became apparent that it was all but a question of time before IBM would fall behind Intel, potentially far behind, and IBM didn't seem to be the least bit concerned.

That's why Apple just didn't compare the present G5 architecture with Intel's chips, they looked at the future roadmap for both, and that's when the decision was made. It's too bad about the G5, but Apple didn't have to "eat it's own words" regarding it because at the time, what Apple claimed was perfectly valid. Obviously, after a few miserable (and late) updates from IBM along with Apple-designed CPU liquid cooling systems just to make the damn things work, and no end to this nonsense in sight, it was time to say adios to IBM.

 

[Timepass]

I dont think the blame all lyes on IBM. PPC arch was flawed from the begining. G5 was a thermo nightmare to put up with. PPC could not get the speed that AMD and intel where both getting on x86 with out heat being coming a huge factor.people keep saying it IBM fault but I bet it was a engineering nightmare to keep increasing the speeds and not having heat issues. The huge sign that there where heat problems was the fact that apple had to go to liquid cooling. To me that was a huge sign that something was wrong with PPC. They arch was producing way to much heat to keep increasing the speeds.

It may be more effeince but it hit the max speeds a lot sooner than x86 did. Also x86 has hit the speed barrier as well. There a reason everyone is going to the multicore. They are maxing out the single core.

That all being said apple is a very hypicritcal company. They will bash one thing and then the next day be worshiping it acting like it is the greating thing ever. (ingtergrating graphic, x86 and so on).

Like some else said earily the product should sell itself. It should not require the mudslinging that apple is currently doing. That is the first sign that something is wrong. That or Steve Jobs is starting to go back to stuff that got him fired in the first place and may need to be fired again. Apple losing my respect as a company and the keynots are no long worth watching because they spend more time bashing comppetors than showing why they are good. there a reason I quite paying attention to politics. Maybe it is time I do the same to apple and do my own reasearch on them from better sourse. Apple is already one of the worse places to get infomation on there stuff.

 

[Orlando Furioso]

Time Machine is just Apple's Backup only prettified and works without .Mac.

There, the secret has been solved.

!?!?

*knock knock*

anyone home?

 

[LoveMacMini]

They spent a good portion of their keynote insulting Vista when they could have been showing off features that truely deserved that "Vista 2.0" name.

I felt like I was watching a high school popularity contest, not a keynote.

 

[sunfast]

I reckon it went a little too far. It was funny at first but generally I don't like negative marketing like that - would much prefer that they concentrated on making a significantly superior product that would speak for itself.

 

[sushi]

Yeah, it probably went too far.

It was funny to watch -- once. I did find myself laughing at times.

However, it would have been better not to have bashed Microsoft so much. IMHO it cheapens Apple's image as a class act.

 

[Unspeaked]

Actually Apple trashed x86 for a while and then went quiet, even about the megahurtz myth, especially after the introduction of the G5.

Really? I don't recall that.

I seem to remember all of Apple's benchmarks clearly showing that whatever new machine had been introduced with a G5 chip (or even G4 chip, in the case of the portable line) was X times faster than an Intel chip.

 

[Unspeaked]

Hmmmm! Let's review:

1 M$ is a huge company, a monolith. I don't think Gates, Bawl-mer, and company are crying on their way to the bank over the mean things some Apple exec said about them.

2.M$ has a long history of copying other companies products, those that they don't buy outright.

3.M$ has a long history of anti-competitive business practices.

4.M$ has been sued numerous times for their unethical behavior.

5.M$ has been caught numerous times falsifying evidence at these trials.

6.Former M$ employees have admitted falsifying testimony at these trials.

7.At the Government v. M$ anti-trust suit, the behavior of M$ top execs, including Bill Gates, was so obviously, blatantly, and egregiously contemptious of the legal process as to prompt Judge Jackson to comment on it. (Which led to the judgement against them being overturned on appeal)

I guess my view on the jabs Apple took at M$ is....at least they made people laugh. The real truth isn't all that funny!

Oh, ok. So since your laundry list of Microsoft grips is fairly accurate, that makes it OK for Apple to make themselves look smug and condescening?

Way to take the high road, there, Steve!