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Anyone here using an OWC Thunderbay enclosure?
- Thread starter odinsride
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I was using the "IV" unit with thunderbolt-1 interface.
I did contact OWC support and received the following response:
Thank you for your email today. I will do my best to answer your question(s).
I am sorry but BootCamp Windows is not compatible with Thunderbay.
You will need to disconnect this unit when working with Windows in Bootcamp.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to reply to this email.
He didn't elaborate as to the reason why, nor did he differentiate between the ThunderBay IV and 4 with respect to this issue.
Preliminary testing with my 4x Seagate 5900rpm 5TB disks is ~420MB/s read/write with SoftRAID 5. I'm impressed so far! These aren't speed-demon disks, so that's pretty good.
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Preliminary testing with my 4x Seagate 5900rpm 5TB disks is ~420MB/s read/write with SoftRAID 5. I'm impressed so far! These aren't speed-demon disks, so that's pretty good.
I assume that's Black Magic? Yes those are decent numbers. It's not about who has the highest benchmarks but whether your numbers are sufficiently high to avoid slowing your application work flow. If you're over 400 MB/sec, in some application workflows you won't see further improvement from yet faster disk speeds. Some applications are internally bottlenecked and cannot utilize extremely high I/O rates.
My Pegasus R4 with 4 x 2TB Toshiba 7200rpm DT01ACA2 in RAID5 did the below:
Empty drive, Mavericks: 581 MB/sec write, 465 MB/sec read
1/3 full drive, Yosemite: 501 MB/sec write, 402MB/sec read
I'm not crazy about Black Magic because it fluctuates so much, but it's free and commonly available.
If you have any other benchmarks and have time, run those and I'll run the same ones. I pretty much have them all.
Mac Performance Guide got 534 MB/sec write, 563 MB/sec read on a Thunderbay IV with 4 x 3TB 7200 rpm Toshiba DT01ACA300. However this wasn't using Black Magic but his own DiskTestR software in "Fill Volume" mode, so the numbers are not comparable.
http://macperformanceguide.com/Reviews-OWC-Thunderbay-RAID.html
This is roughly the same speed as my Pegasus R4, which would argue for just using the ThunderBay+SoftRAID, not the more expensive R4 with its hardware RAID controller.
Can you hot-swap a failed drive on the ThunderBay? How long does the first initialization take when you put in new drives? On the R4, the first RAID-5 initialization or "sync" can take from overnight to three days, depending on the stripe size selected. I'm currently using a 512 KB stripe size.
I think you can hot-swap a drive, but I have not tried it myself. The "initialization" is actually broken down into 2 processes. You can perform an initial "certification" on your drives which is done with all of them in parallel at the same time. You can select how many passes you want, and it can take from overnight to several days to perform. The actual array build only takes a few minutes to complete. You can create multiple volumes on the RAID array easily and can reconfigure it quickly. There is accidental data-deletion protection which alerts you to dumb operator actions, and the SMART status is monitored. You can set up email alerts from the SoftRAID monitor in the event of errors, failures, capacity, etc. which are handy if your array is remote (NAS) or you aren't paying attention to it.
It is claimed that rebuilds are much faster than hardware RAID-5, but I haven't had to experience that yet.
I like that I can transfer the 4 RAID-5 disks over to my Mac Pro sleds, or another JBOD enclosure without losing any data as long as the host system will run the SoftRAID program. I have one volume set up to CCC clone my boot SSD, and I can boot from the SoftRAID5 cloned volume if needed.
So far, other than the Windows issue I am working on, I am quite pleased with the system.
-howard
To address a couple of questions here:
1.) Yes, I benched with Blackmagic, which really isn't reliable at all.
2.) I tested a couple of RAID 5-failure scenarios:
First, I plugged in all four of my Seagate 5TB drives, and created the RAID 5. (With SoftRAID, you don't pick a stripe size specifically, but you can pick whether the RAID will be digital video, a server, photos etc. I picked digital video, since it's just going to be used for large media files).
3.) The RAID 5 created in seconds, and I was left with 15TB usable out of the 20TB. All looking good.
At that point, I copied a 10GB movie file to the RAID 5. I then pulled a drive out of the Thunderbay 4, to simulate a drive failure. SoftRAID immediately went into alert mode, telling me a drive had failed. At that point it also emailed me (the email functions are excellent). I then switched off the computer (2012 Mac mini). I plugged the drive back in, booted up, and SoftRAID emailed me that the RAID 5 was re-building. Less than a minute later, the RAID rebuild was finished. SoftRAID again emailed me to tell me the rebuild was complete.
SoftRAID journals the changes on disks, so in theory, even with more data on the disks, it shouldn't have to write the WHOLE e.g. 5TB to a 5TB disk if only e.g. 1TB is used. Most RAID solutions will always write to the entire replaced disk, regardless of how much space was actually used on the array.
4.) To test what would happen if two disks were removed, I didn't thoroughly test this. I turned the Mac off, pulled two disks out, and turned the Mac back on. SoftRAID told me more than one disk was missing, and the RAID won't be mounted (obviously). At that point I turned the Mac back off, connected the two disks again, powered back on, and all was well.
So I know I wasn't as thorough as I could be, but it gave me a pretty good idea of how SoftRAID (gracefully) deals with failures of a single disk, and I have a pretty good idea of what it will do if several disks are disconnected. Maybe someone else with a new build can test pulling two disks out while the RAID 5 is in use.
1.) Yes, I benched with Blackmagic, which really isn't reliable at all.
2.) I tested a couple of RAID 5-failure scenarios:
First, I plugged in all four of my Seagate 5TB drives, and created the RAID 5. (With SoftRAID, you don't pick a stripe size specifically, but you can pick whether the RAID will be digital video, a server, photos etc. I picked digital video, since it's just going to be used for large media files).
3.) The RAID 5 created in seconds, and I was left with 15TB usable out of the 20TB. All looking good.
At that point, I copied a 10GB movie file to the RAID 5. I then pulled a drive out of the Thunderbay 4, to simulate a drive failure. SoftRAID immediately went into alert mode, telling me a drive had failed. At that point it also emailed me (the email functions are excellent). I then switched off the computer (2012 Mac mini). I plugged the drive back in, booted up, and SoftRAID emailed me that the RAID 5 was re-building. Less than a minute later, the RAID rebuild was finished. SoftRAID again emailed me to tell me the rebuild was complete.
SoftRAID journals the changes on disks, so in theory, even with more data on the disks, it shouldn't have to write the WHOLE e.g. 5TB to a 5TB disk if only e.g. 1TB is used. Most RAID solutions will always write to the entire replaced disk, regardless of how much space was actually used on the array.
4.) To test what would happen if two disks were removed, I didn't thoroughly test this. I turned the Mac off, pulled two disks out, and turned the Mac back on. SoftRAID told me more than one disk was missing, and the RAID won't be mounted (obviously). At that point I turned the Mac back off, connected the two disks again, powered back on, and all was well.
So I know I wasn't as thorough as I could be, but it gave me a pretty good idea of how SoftRAID (gracefully) deals with failures of a single disk, and I have a pretty good idea of what it will do if several disks are disconnected. Maybe someone else with a new build can test pulling two disks out while the RAID 5 is in use.
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This is very interesting. I did a lot of testing on the sync or "RAID creation" phase on the Pegasus R4. As you can see from these graphs, it can be *very* slow: https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=454142&d=1388585470
Like you, I forced a failure, but the R4 rebuild was also quite slow. I don't have exact numbers but it was on the order of hours not minutes.
This was a good test because in some RAID systems, this type of failure will "break" the RAID and you can't get it back -- even though all the data is still there. Intel's motherboard-based Rapid Storage Technology (RST) is notorious for this.
Overall the Thunderbay 4 and SoftRAID sounds really good; I may try that next time I need another external array. OTOH at current sale prices the Pegasus R4 is only about $1,300, vs about $970 for an 8TB Thunderbay. The R4's higher price might be worthwhile if it translated into significantly better performance or reliability, but it's unclear that's the case.
Also the Thunderbay has a 3-yr warranty vs the 2-yr warranty on the R4: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...lXfKiQYbYFUg09nYc2TR2nh0wDjlYMBNzQaAo8M8P8HAQ
Glad to have helped.
Also, the Thunderbay without drives only has a 1-year warranty, fyi. Only drive-included Thunderbays have 3-year warranties. I bought with my Discover card (other cards offer similar things) so it extends my warranty by a year.
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB2IVKIT0GB/
Still very pleased, a few days later, with the OWC Thunderbay 4. It respects sleep/wake abilities as set in the OS, too. I had an issue initially with getting the RAID 5 array to sleep, but it turned out to be iStat Menus polling the drives via S.M.A.R.T. status tools. With that disabled, all my Thunderbolt disks now sleep correctly. Excellent.
SoftRAID will poll the disks approximately once per day to check their S.M.A.R.T. status, and I know it works since it detected one of my 2.5" Seagate Thunderbolt disks misbehaving (since RMA'ed).
Highly recommend the Thunderbay 4 + Noctua fan + SoftRAID 5!
SoftRAID will poll the disks approximately once per day to check their S.M.A.R.T. status, and I know it works since it detected one of my 2.5" Seagate Thunderbolt disks misbehaving (since RMA'ed).
Highly recommend the Thunderbay 4 + Noctua fan + SoftRAID 5!
So the Raid 5 edition is now on holiday discount. Going this route (add ur own) offers an opportunity for another ~$100 or so off by buying drives separately.
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/TB2SRKIT0GB/
Not sure on best drive to fill with. Toshiba, WD Red/Green/Black, Seagate, or other...any thoughts on the best 3.5" drive to run this in a 12 TB Raid 5 solution?
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/TB2SRKIT0GB/
Not sure on best drive to fill with. Toshiba, WD Red/Green/Black, Seagate, or other...any thoughts on the best 3.5" drive to run this in a 12 TB Raid 5 solution?
I am using these ... fast, quiet, vibration damping:
HGST Deskstar NAS 3.5-Inch 3TB 7200RPM SATA III 64MB Cache
http://www.amazon.com/HGST-Deskstar...+NAS+3.5-Inch+3TB+7200RPM+SATA+III+64MB+Cache
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
Check out post #56 above...
I have used cheaper drives in the past and had troubles which I did not wish to repeat ... so I got the HGST NAS drives.
Thanks...I now see the drive reference. Great results indeed on T-1 connection. So OWC seems to configure Toshiba drives on their preloaded version....would be curious on others thoughts for "Load Ur Own" drive solutions around the cost/performance/longevity proposition?
WD Red/Purple have great price points at the moment but not sure they optimize best in this non-NAS/surveillance enclosure.
WD Red drives work great in multi-drive NAS enclosures, but do be aware that they spin slower, which doesn't really matter in a NAS, but if you are doing real-time DAS access this may be a concern.
You could also install ZFS+
Has anyone tested disk performance with ZFS? It's definitely more reliable than any other Software RAID solution (especially if you have a Mac Pro with ECC Ram in it).
I haven't bought my Thunderbay 4 or drives yet as waiting for riMac delivery to get a bit closer (currently on for 2-8th Dec) - but when I do, after a fair amount of research, I'll be getting these HGST drives. Reliable and fast.
WD Reds seem OK reliability wise (not quite as good as the HGST) but they spin slower. Seagate's have poor failure rates.
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
It wouldn't surprise me that Seagates have poorer failure rates since they're usually the first to market in the higher sizes.
Personally? I've had failures with every single manufacturer. Anecdotally, the worst for me has been Western Digital (if you don't count the IBM Deskstar issues), followed by Seagate a rather distant second. Post-IBM Hitachi, and Toshiba, have both been solid for me, though I've used them considerably less than WD/Seagate.
I think far too much stake is put into drive reliability numbers (and wherever they come from). All drives fail. ALL. It's not if - it's just WHEN. Spending $134 on a 3TB disk sounds a bit mad to me, given you can get larger capacity disks for about the same price. (Personally, I spent just about that on a 5TB disk with a USB 3.0 enclosure about a half year back (4 of them, in fact). All of them are working perfectly, and continue to do so in the Thunderbay 4). I understand the whole NAS/server-ready blah blah, but for the majority of us it's just not necessary. I suspect, given that we're quite close to Thanksgiving/Black Friday, if you live in the USA I'd just wait for some deals in the next couple of weeks.
Given that RAID 5 is great for redundancy, save some money, buy some high-capacity Seagate/WD/Whatever disks, and get an extra for if you need it.
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What drives did you have trouble with in the past?
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I had problems with Seagate and WD drives in a hardware RAID-5 environment. Drives would occasionally be detected as "bad" and voted out of the array even though they were good. The "bad" drive would move around among the drives installed ... probably a timing issue. These were with the lowest level "consumer" drives (and lowest cost). Once I replaced them with higher quality drives, my issues went away.
I have found that hardware RAID can be very picky about the drives. It is best to stick with the drives that the enclosure manufacturer recommends for that system.