the only acceptable reason is the first one.
if it works on a mac, it works on a mac. regardless of what the dev thinks. nobody is going to use an app that doesn't work.
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Anyone staying on 11.2.3 to keep your iOS apps?
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if it works on a mac, it works on a mac. regardless of what the dev thinks. nobody is going to use an app that doesn't work.
I miss the apps as well. But, I begrudgingly agree with you. @Gnattu, a thoughtful and well-said reply (as usual)!
It's not that simple, people will leave 1-star comment on App Store, send feedback to developer, asking for refund if an app is available on Mac App Store but does not work (or only partially work) on Mac. If the developer does not want the app be run on a Mac, why such hassle should happen to him(and those angry Mac users) in the first place? You are just making an argument like it's OK to put good and bad food in the Walmart at same time because nobody will eat bad food. If an App is not guaranteed to work on Mac, it should not be in the Mac App Store, which is not the case of many iOS apps even if they seems to work for now because the compatibility comes with no warrant and the developer has no intention to fix if the compatibility is broken.
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This is a guess, ask Netflix for the real reason. Piracy is only one potential problem because macOS has direct filesystem access.wait.. are you making the piracy argument?
the whole piracy defense has been laughable since the VCR days. anyone who knows how to dig down and extract the content already knows how to download the content for free somewhere else.
there is a flaw in your reasoning here. Sideloaded apps do not appear in the Mac App Store. Thats why we are sideloading them. In which case it is impossible for anyone to leave a a 1-star comment in the Mac App store. No one is arguing that all apps have to be in both stores. We only want the ability to sideload iOS apps we bought if they provide value on the Mac.
This does not prevent DRM technologies to be implemented which hurts user experience. It might be a laughable thing, but most companies choose to do so. Again that is only a guess, ask Netflix for why, not me.
This is the result of developers having choice. My whole point is replying to the argument that "developers should not have choice to not make their iOS apps available on Mac".
No. their choice is to whether or not have their app in the Mac App Store. Not whether or not I can run it on my mac.
I think it’s right that developers have as much control as possible over their own apps as that is reasonable since they make the apps in the first place.
That being said, I wish developers realised the potential of allowing their apps on M1 macs. So few developers currently do, and it’s a shame as it’s a lot of revenue they’re missing out on.
I also think Apple needs to make iOS apps have their own dedicated section in the main part of the app store, not just in search. I.e. they should have a filter on the main page for ios apps to see their own top charts, see highlighted/promoted ios apps, and make them more ‘important’ than what they are currently, where Apple is just treating them as some bonus but unnecessary feature
That being said, I wish developers realised the potential of allowing their apps on M1 macs. So few developers currently do, and it’s a shame as it’s a lot of revenue they’re missing out on.
I also think Apple needs to make iOS apps have their own dedicated section in the main part of the app store, not just in search. I.e. they should have a filter on the main page for ios apps to see their own top charts, see highlighted/promoted ios apps, and make them more ‘important’ than what they are currently, where Apple is just treating them as some bonus but unnecessary feature
Well, they always have the choice. Detecting whether the app is running on Mac is easy, if they want to implement a blocking mechanism, they can always do. This is their app after all.
As a developer personally, I'm fine with side-loading if the user want to, thus I will not implement any blocking mechanism. However, I will not provide any support for side-loaded app and users are on their own if they face any problem. I think this is fair for both side. Apple held same option as mine before, but they changed their mind. We don't know the reason behind such change, but pressure from some major developer/company might be a possible reason. As a developer I cannot blame Apple enforcing the platform limitation because Apple is respecting my choice.
no responsible or sane person should expect you to provide support for their "off-roading" experience. As I said, either the app works or it doesn't. I have even experimented with Launch Center Pro in my dock and it works for a lot of stuff but there are a few kinks. I would never think to complain or bother the dev about it. I did let him know I was experimenting with it and he asked for examples how I was using it. That is all I expect from devs when it comes to sideloading.
Most of the big streaming Apps are available in the Windows Store or Microsoft Store or whatever its called on Win 10. I'm actually a little surprised that they haven't incorporated something similar in the Mac App Store or at least allow the iOS Apps to run. Especially considering how SIP works with Big Sur.
I'm still annoyed that FB Messenger's app isn't native yet. They have a perfectly good working version on iOS.
That said, there aren't a lot of iOS Apps that I had been particularly interested in side loading. I think I did it once as a proof of concept but otherwise, eh.
I'm still annoyed that FB Messenger's app isn't native yet. They have a perfectly good working version on iOS.
That said, there aren't a lot of iOS Apps that I had been particularly interested in side loading. I think I did it once as a proof of concept but otherwise, eh.
other than the streaming apps (including SiriusXM), my big winner has been GV Connect. I have been a google voice user since beta invite and I have always wanted a nice app on the mac. There have been some tries over the years for Mac but they never lasted.
Typing a text in Drafts and sending it to GV Connect is as smooth as on iOS.
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The Mac app store makes it so you really have to go looking for the iOS version of an app, and that's fine.
Yes, there may be a version that's not in the Mac App Store - but in this case, isn't is actually safer to install the iOS version (see Zoom example)?
This is already a solved problem within the iOS ecosystem. Apps can state upfront they require certain hardware features, and installations blocked if the device does not meet the requirements.
Again, this can be blocked at the store level.
The App Store makes it pretty clear that apps are "Designed for iPad, not verified for macOS" - I think most users are smart enough to know what they're getting into.
So security through… obscurity?
See above.
It's likely that this would have thrown errors on iOS hardware too, since they have varying hardware between generations. The solution is better written apps, or as I suspect Apple is already doing: compatibility shims.
A compromise would be to let me install apps I've already downloaded onto another device (that show a cloud icon instead of 'get' or 'buy').
Developers spend time for macOS version and they should have the right to ensure such effort is respected, and the correct version is delivered to the user because macOS app does not take less time to develop, but reaches much smaller amount of audiences than iOS apps. By the way, your last statement sounds like "Sorry, I know you made a Mac version but I still prefer the iOS version because I don't trust you." This might be a valid statement if the app is required and you don't have an alternative, but this is not for most apps that can be replaced.
What's more, a lot of apps don't share license between iOS and macOS, and users are required to purchase for both platforms in this case. Different developers/company may have different strategies, but force M1 users to buy the Mac version to secure revenue is one of them. I'm sorry.
Maybe for hardware capability yes, but software framework no. Even Apple have no idea how many frameworks are going to work because not all frameworks are written by Apple, it can never be blocked at store level.
So developers cannot have a private data container which is not user accessible? Or if they want, they have to rewrite how data is stored for a platform they don't want to support? If I have to rewrite, I'd rather port using Mac Catalyst and release it as a standalone Mac version, this way users will get better experience and I will get paid more.
It is. However, even if you 100% followed Apple's guideline, your app will still break in the future if you don't update frequently enough to catch Apple's pace. Each and every WWDC will break so many apps, and some hard-coded cases are actually implemented to workaround Apple's bugs because they never ship a perfect iOS release. One of the biggest "feature" of Apple platforms is "absolutely 0 backward compatibility." If you write an app for Windows, it will have a very high chance still runnable in a 10 years later Windows version without changing your code, but this will never happen on macOS/iOS. So the solution is not "better programming", but "following Apple and drop legacy", and hard-coded cases are inevitable in this process.
To be fair this is true for Android too. It's more how mobile ecosystems work since all the innovations are there.
Updated and all my apps still work. That said I don't use iOS apps really as they work poorly on a desktop.
iOS apps on Mac is so big thing that it simply should work immediately.
Apple advertised it that way as from the launch date of M1.
In the following months - Apple decreased the hype, knowing they promised something to users without fully consulting with developers first... thats why 11.3 change happened
So here we are... discussing the + and - reasons without fully disclosing which side we represent: users, developers or Apple.
Money flow: Apple takes the cut from developers (charging them for development platform and 15-30% sales), Apple takes the cut from users (for hardware), developers take the cut from users (70-85%).
Everyone wants their piece of pie larger - for a valid reasons.
Point being: Apple waved with carrot to the users and then pointed to developers.
In all fairnes - Apple should have stimulated developers by saying like - if you make your iOS app ready for Mac M1 - we will take 0% cut of it in the next 1-2 years and you get your next development certificate free...
Thats called a deal and investment into developers for the sake of developing M1 software platform further...
Anything else is a poor manipulation of the developers and users and shifting the blame...
Apple advertised it that way as from the launch date of M1.
In the following months - Apple decreased the hype, knowing they promised something to users without fully consulting with developers first... thats why 11.3 change happened
So here we are... discussing the + and - reasons without fully disclosing which side we represent: users, developers or Apple.
Money flow: Apple takes the cut from developers (charging them for development platform and 15-30% sales), Apple takes the cut from users (for hardware), developers take the cut from users (70-85%).
Everyone wants their piece of pie larger - for a valid reasons.
Point being: Apple waved with carrot to the users and then pointed to developers.
In all fairnes - Apple should have stimulated developers by saying like - if you make your iOS app ready for Mac M1 - we will take 0% cut of it in the next 1-2 years and you get your next development certificate free...
Thats called a deal and investment into developers for the sake of developing M1 software platform further...
Anything else is a poor manipulation of the developers and users and shifting the blame...
I sure wish they would have done that. I was very much looking forward to running my iOS apps on my M1, but there's not one of my most important apps that does.
And yes, I VERY much prefer apps to web pages.
I'm just a user and private developer when it comes to the Mac...
If you are a developer; please take a few moments to try to put yourself in the shoes of your users.
Having been both a developer and a user for over 30 years; my perspective is that allowing macOS computers to run iOS apps WITHOUT LIMITATION is not only the BEST situation for BOTH users and developers, but also the inevitable future.
I have taken the time to look through the dozen or so iOS apps that I run on my 11.2.3 MacBook Air M1 that I would LOSE if I upgraded to 11.3 and would like to make the following points:
- Almost all of them are "portals" into services I already pay fees to use (banks, financial services, streaming, etc).
- None of them have current macOS apps
- Many of them have less secure web portal alternatives that are supposed to be the solution for macOS support.
- All of them are completely usable on Mac without compatibility issues (or with very minor ones). I wouldn't have believed this before the M1 Macs were released; but Apple actually did a good job setting things up to make this work.
- I can think of very few situations where there would be a financial benefit to developers splitting off a separate macOS app and offering it to me.
Lets face it; macOS app development has been on the back burner for application developers for many many years. There are countless amazing iOS apps that developers could now port to macOS with a week or two of work, but have not bothered to do so. And I get it. Your perspective is that it is not going to create enough income to make it worthwhile.
As a user I can't be alone in having my Mac and my iPad on my desk and having to constantly switch between them to enjoy both worlds. This sucks. And Apple solved this with the M1. It is the BEST feature of the M1.
This capability is getting impaired by developers that are not looking at the big picture.
If you are a developer who is going to flame me; please also list your macOS release plans so we can support your macOS app. If it's good; we will buy it! Users WANT to support developers who create great apps!
Having been both a developer and a user for over 30 years; my perspective is that allowing macOS computers to run iOS apps WITHOUT LIMITATION is not only the BEST situation for BOTH users and developers, but also the inevitable future.
I have taken the time to look through the dozen or so iOS apps that I run on my 11.2.3 MacBook Air M1 that I would LOSE if I upgraded to 11.3 and would like to make the following points:
- Almost all of them are "portals" into services I already pay fees to use (banks, financial services, streaming, etc).
- None of them have current macOS apps
- Many of them have less secure web portal alternatives that are supposed to be the solution for macOS support.
- All of them are completely usable on Mac without compatibility issues (or with very minor ones). I wouldn't have believed this before the M1 Macs were released; but Apple actually did a good job setting things up to make this work.
- I can think of very few situations where there would be a financial benefit to developers splitting off a separate macOS app and offering it to me.
Lets face it; macOS app development has been on the back burner for application developers for many many years. There are countless amazing iOS apps that developers could now port to macOS with a week or two of work, but have not bothered to do so. And I get it. Your perspective is that it is not going to create enough income to make it worthwhile.
As a user I can't be alone in having my Mac and my iPad on my desk and having to constantly switch between them to enjoy both worlds. This sucks. And Apple solved this with the M1. It is the BEST feature of the M1.
This capability is getting impaired by developers that are not looking at the big picture.
If you are a developer who is going to flame me; please also list your macOS release plans so we can support your macOS app. If it's good; we will buy it! Users WANT to support developers who create great apps!
Planning to recompile and actually launch my apps on app store for mac vs just iOS. Didn't do so since I tend not to write desktop apps of these types.
I do find I use my laptop and desktop more and more with less 'apps' and more services and cloud and web apps. It's more like a work system for management of systems vs a desktop.
Can someone running iMazing with current macOS on any M1 let me know if iOS apps can be installed again? Would love to be able to upgrade from 11.2.3.