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That's based entirely on how you look at it. The iPad Pro is more capable than most 'real' computers which existed say 5 years ago. In terms of hardware. Those computers ran full versions of photoshop etc. There is no reason why iPad can't run full versions now. The only limitation is the developers.

So it cannot run full version of photoshop then! So if someone needs full version of photoshop then what do they do? I will tell you - they need to get a "real computer". Complaining about developers etc. does not change this and magically make the iPad better than it is... it is fact and that is how I look it! Maybe it will change in future but for now this is how it is.

I don't disagree that the hardware capabilities of the iPad are real good and better than many Windows computers years ago... but iPad (IOS) is still crippled by OS restrictions, and other reasons like the way the App store works. There are some amazing apps created for iPad though and some I prefer to use on it rather than on my MacBook.

People that run iPads exclusive - I understand and appreciate are happy doing whatever things that they do and find ways to workaround the restrictions, but they should consider that there are other people in the world that may have a bit more needs than them and respect this too.
 
So it cannot run full version of photoshop then! So if someone needs full version of photoshop then what do they do? I will tell you - they need to get a "real computer". Complaining about developers etc. does not change this and magically make the iPad better than it is... it is fact and that is how I look it! Maybe it will change in future but for now this is how it is.

I don't disagree that the hardware capabilities of the iPad are real good and better than many Windows computers years ago... but iPad (IOS) is still crippled by OS restrictions, and other reasons like the way the App store works. There are some amazing apps created for iPad though and some I prefer to use on it rather than on my MacBook.

People that run iPads exclusive - I understand and appreciate are happy doing whatever things that they do and find ways to workaround the restrictions, but they should consider that there are other people in the world that may have a bit more needs than them and respect this too.

Pretty much the full functionality of photoshop is available on iOS. It's just spread over several apps. Photoshop fix has all the things like liquid, adjustments etc, photoshop mix, which has layering, masks, etc and photoshop express has the filters. So full functionality is there. It's just that it's not in one app.

Lightroom in iOS is actually awesome.

What I meant was that developers can easily adapt their full versions of the apps for a touch screen. The hardware on iPad Pro 12.9 has the ram and processor power already to run the full desktop version. It's not Apple, it's Adobe etc. You can't blame the OS if a certain developer won't make a certain app we want. The sdk is there....
 
So it cannot run full version of photoshop then! So if someone needs full version of photoshop then what do they do? I will tell you - they need to get a "real computer". Complaining about developers etc. does not change this and magically make the iPad better than it is... it is fact and that is how I look it! Maybe it will change in future but for now this is how it is.

I don't disagree that the hardware capabilities of the iPad are real good and better than many Windows computers years ago... but iPad (IOS) is still crippled by OS restrictions, and other reasons like the way the App store works. There are some amazing apps created for iPad though and some I prefer to use on it rather than on my MacBook.

People that run iPads exclusive - I understand and appreciate are happy doing whatever things that they do and find ways to workaround the restrictions, but they should consider that there are other people in the world that may have a bit more needs than them and respect this too.
It is capable of running a full version of Photoshop. It's just not available (yet).

If your argument is that there are applications available on Macs and Windows computers that aren't available on the iPad, I can counter that and say the opposite. There are applications available on the iPad that are not available on Macs and Windows computers.
 
So it cannot run full version of photoshop then! So if someone needs full version of photoshop then what do they do? I will tell you - they need to get a "real computer". Complaining about developers etc. does not change this and magically make the iPad better than it is... it is fact and that is how I look it! Maybe it will change in future but for now this is how it is.

I don't disagree that the hardware capabilities of the iPad are real good and better than many Windows computers years ago... but iPad (IOS) is still crippled by OS restrictions, and other reasons like the way the App store works. There are some amazing apps created for iPad though and some I prefer to use on it rather than on my MacBook.

People that run iPads exclusive - I understand and appreciate are happy doing whatever things that they do and find ways to workaround the restrictions, but they should consider that there are other people in the world that may have a bit more needs than them and respect this too.

I would say that this sort of courtesy should extend both ways. Recognise that there are people who are able to do most, if not all of their work on an iPad, and acknowledge them for it, rather than try to belittle their accomplishments or dismiss them outright.

That there are certain tasks which cannot be done from an iPad might simply not be relevant in their context, and you don't miss that you don't need. E.g.: I can't run photoshop on my iPad, but if I don't need to, or are otherwise satisfied with alternatives such as pixelmator, it's really no loss to me.
 
It is capable of running a full version of Photoshop. It's just not available (yet).

If your argument is that there are applications available on Macs and Windows computers that aren't available on the iPad, I can counter that and say the opposite. There are applications available on the iPad that are not available on Macs and Windows computers.
That was not my argument, was responding to that particular photoshop app argument. If one needs full photoshop now then the only option is a PC.

While there are apps available on iPad which are unavailable on mac it is a pointless argument to make a blanket statement like that. iPad is simply not capable for many real world tasks that a traditional or "real computer" can do. People wanting these new apps and such on iPad can purchase an iPad and enjoy them but some may find out iPad cannot do everything they were used to before. This is why I have iPad and MacBook along with several PCs.
 
That was not my argument, was responding to Channan about that particular photoshop app. If one needs full photoshop now then the only option is a PC.

While there are apps available on iPad which are unavailable on mac it is a pointless argument to make a blanket statement like that. iPad is simply not capable for many real world tasks that a traditional or "real computer" can do. People wanting these new apps and such on iPad can purchase an iPad and enjoy them but some may find out iPad cannot do everything they were used to before. This is why I have iPad and MacBook along with several PCs.
Again, your argument is based off of applications that are available, not what the iPad is actually capable of.

When an application is available for Windows but not for Macs, does that disqualify Macs from being real computers?
 
...There are uses which require real computers that an iPad is not capable of doing.

This is either poor writing, or it's just being deliberately provocative. There are computing tasks which require legacy computer operating systems and legacy I/O ports. And there are computing tasks that do not. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the word "real".


iPad is technically a computer though it is a very crippled one in terms of hardware and software/operating system.

That's your perspective. My perspective is that a MacBook is "crippled" by being large, heavy, expensive, full of legacy ports I don't need or want, with poor battery life, no 4G/LTE connectivity, no touchscreen, no Apple Pencil compatibility, low resolution screens, slow bootup and shutdown, an unsandboxed OS, a pisspoor App Store, and no ability whatsoever to run the iOS apps I love and use daily for dozens of tasks.
 
Again, your argument is based off of applications that are available, not what the iPad is actually capable of.

When an application is available for Windows but not for Macs, does that disqualify Macs from being real computers?
I get the feeling you are not reading or understanding what i am saying. I agree that there are good apps for iPad that are not available for MacOS, Windows, or any other device. This is due to it being a touchscreen and apps designed primarily for touch where MacOS does not (and let's not even talk about Windows Surface LOL). I love my iPad and certain apps on it, but I cannot do without my MacBook and other Windows computers for what I do. I perfectly understand why someone would want and even try to use an iPad as their main exclusive device, but some people this is not a reality.
 
This is either poor writing, or it's just being deliberately provocative. There are computing tasks which require legacy computer operating systems and legacy I/O ports. And there are computing tasks that do not. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the word "real".




That's your perspective. My perspective is that a MacBook is "crippled" by being large, heavy, expensive, full of legacy ports I don't need or want, with poor battery life, no 4G/LTE connectivity, no touchscreen, no Apple Pencil compatibility, low resolution screens, slow bootup and shutdown, an unsandboxed OS, a pisspoor App Store, and no ability whatsoever to run the iOS apps I love and use daily for dozens of tasks.

I am sorry, in my posts I try to make sure to use quotes on the term "real computer" but I forgot this time. The term "real computer" in this case I think is what many people mean as a more full-featured or legacy computer.

Anyways that is my perspective, correct and you have your perspective and guess what - we are both correct. I respect yours and I have no reason to doubt that it all works out for you, but seems like some have a problem appreciating or respecting people like myself who cannot use just an iPad and try to explain why. I happen to own three iPads and have the smart keyboard and Apple Pencil for my Pro. I also have a MacBook Pro, and an iMac, iPhone 7 Plus, and Apple Watch. I have lots of Windows computers and laptops too. Sure there are some days I can use my iPad and iPhone for most of stuff I do and I don't even touch my MacBook or iMac, but I do require access to more "real computers" often - and there isn't even a convoluted 20-step alternative on the iPad to these things I need them for... they simply cannot be done without a "real computer". Some stuff my MacBook or iMac cannot even do and I have to use Windows (well I fire up a virtual machine in most of those cases).

I am not trying to say iPads are bad and don't use (I use my iPad a lot), but I (and others) need a bit more sometimes.
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At least you're finally backtracking on your ridiculous assertions. Good for you, that's progress!
It's like a 12-step program LOL!
 
Again full featured is in the eye of the beholder. Macs don't have the portability, touch screen, LTE, cameras, Apple Pencil. Better battery life, Etc so they are just different features not better features or 'more' featured. I have a MacBook Pro but only really use it now for backing up files, backing up to iTunes (though I do back up to iCloud, and with I music I even have backup of music to iCloud as well. So I do not really need it it's just I like having 5 backups for ease of mind hana). The ONLY app I can't replace on iPad ) is dream weaver. Adobe has all the other apps and as I said 99% of photoshop functionality Is there just in several apps, but they have yet to make a mobile version of dream weaver. I do use coda which is totally code based for quick updates but I really want a good wysiwyg editor for websites. Other than that I use my iPad Pro for everything.
 
I think ipad is a real computer as the difference is only apps.

From a different point of view
Photographer - iPad is not a computer coz it's missing an app call photoshop

Programmer - iPad is not a computer coz it's missing an app to code and compile my programs.

Gamers - iPad is not a computer as it doesn't have 'hardcore' game.

At the end of the day, as long as a device lets u do work, it's a computer. If it doesn't, it's an entertainment device.
 
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I get the feeling you are not reading or understanding what i am saying. I agree that there are good apps for iPad that are not available for MacOS, Windows, or any other device. This is due to it being a touchscreen and apps designed primarily for touch where MacOS does not (and let's not even talk about Windows Surface LOL). I love my iPad and certain apps on it, but I cannot do without my MacBook and other Windows computers for what I do. I perfectly understand why someone would want and even try to use an iPad as their main exclusive device, but some people this is not a reality.
I understand exactly what you're saying. You're saying there are apps available on your Mac that aren't available for the iPad so you can't replace your Mac with an iPad, but that doesn't mean the iPad is not capable of running those apps or make it any less of a computer. It just means you need one OS with certain features over another.
 
Interesting reading. One area not discussed is printing. For those of you who have gone to the iPad as your main computer, how has it affected your ability to print documents and other things? I have a networked printer that I sometimes use with my iPad, but I've found that the printer only works with some apps and the print drivers, in general, don't seem to offer the same flexibility as those on my iMac. Any thoughts?
I've used a variety of AirPrint enabled printers with mine - including some quite high end laser printers. My only issue, which is simply a minor niggle that's more exclusive in my situation, is having to connect to the printer or a respective wifi network to access the printer. Now, for someone with a normal home wifi network this is a non-issue. But as I use LTE as my main internet source, I have to connect to a different option to access the printer I currently have.

In reality though, I've had far less issues printing via iPad or even iPhone than I did on mac or windows.
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So it cannot run full version of photoshop then! So if someone needs full version of photoshop then what do they do? I will tell you - they need to get a "real computer". Complaining about developers etc. does not change this and magically make the iPad better than it is... it is fact and that is how I look it! Maybe it will change in future but for now this is how it is.

I don't disagree that the hardware capabilities of the iPad are real good and better than many Windows computers years ago... but iPad (IOS) is still crippled by OS restrictions, and other reasons like the way the App store works. There are some amazing apps created for iPad though and some I prefer to use on it rather than on my MacBook.

People that run iPads exclusive - I understand and appreciate are happy doing whatever things that they do and find ways to workaround the restrictions, but they should consider that there are other people in the world that may have a bit more needs than them and respect this too.

I know you backtracked a bit/rephrased after the fact on some of this, but I'm not really quoting for the pissing match on whether or not the iPad is enough for ALL people. It's not - but it is for some, and that's who this thread is for.

Regarding photoshop though, I'll weigh in on that, because it's actually relevant to my career and usage. I'm a professional designer and it's my main income.

I work daily with graphic design, and used Photoshop for around a decade. This is the one thing I need most in my career, and an absolute, non negotiable necessity. I can't go without the ability to create and edit elaborate files, large resolution professional photos, etc. My job simply wouldn't be possible without it.

However - despite my intense usage of Photoshop, I find that there are not only full featured options for the same work on iPad, but ones that I enjoy using far, far more than Photoshop. They're more fluid, they're more feature-rich in some cases, and they give better results on a platform that's, quite frankly, more enjoyable to use.

For me, it takes that separation between me and my designs away. It's no longer something that has a distance there - it's hands on. It's direct. My fingers blurring a section on a photo, or the Pencil drawing a line or wireframe right there on the screen. It breathed new life into design for me - not just by a little, but by a lot. It changed how I see my work, how I approach it, and it's made me enjoy it again as if it's fresh - even after a decade of it.

So while some may be dedicated to photoshop, as someone who relied on it for so long, and relies on that kind of work so heavily? I'd say that most photohop users could be perfectly happy on an iPad Pro.
 
I've used a variety of AirPrint enabled printers with mine - including some quite high end laser printers. My only issue, which is simply a minor niggle that's more exclusive in my situation, is having to connect to the printer or a respective wifi network to access the printer. Now, for someone with a normal home wifi network this is a non-issue. But as I use LTE as my main internet source, I have to connect to a different option to access the printer I currently have.

In reality though, I've had far less issues printing via iPad or even iPhone than I did on mac or windows.
[doublepost=1477281154][/doublepost]

I know you backtracked a bit/rephrased after the fact on some of this, but I'm not really quoting for the pissing match on whether or not the iPad is enough for ALL people. It's not - but it is for some, and that's who this thread is for.

Regarding photoshop though, I'll weigh in on that, because it's actually relevant to my career and usage. I'm a professional designer and it's my main income.

I work daily with graphic design, and used Photoshop for around a decade. This is the one thing I need most in my career, and an absolute, non negotiable necessity. I can't go without the ability to create and edit elaborate files, large resolution professional photos, etc. My job simply wouldn't be possible without it.

However - despite my intense usage of Photoshop, I find that there are not only full featured options for the same work on iPad, but ones that I enjoy using far, far more than Photoshop. They're more fluid, they're more feature-rich in some cases, and they give better results on a platform that's, quite frankly, more enjoyable to use.

For me, it takes that separation between me and my designs away. It's no longer something that has a distance there - it's hands on. It's direct. My fingers blurring a section on a photo, or the Pencil drawing a line or wireframe right there on the screen. It breathed new life into design for me - not just by a little, but by a lot. It changed how I see my work, how I approach it, and it's made me enjoy it again as if it's fresh - even after a decade of it.

So while some may be dedicated to photoshop, as someone who relied on it for so long, and relies on that kind of work so heavily? I'd say that most photohop users could be perfectly happy on an iPad Pro.
Ya I hear ya on that - while I am nowhere near a professional artist, I used to play around with photoshop and similar applications years ago. Today using Pixelmator on my iPad - I actually prefer because it's so easy to use. (One app in this category to watch out for is Affinity which is coming soon for iPad.)

My profession is an IT systems administrator so maybe I'm a bit biased in favor of traditional computers because without them I could not do my job for sure and I possibly may do things that a typical person would not do.
 
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may I ask you how you archive the documents you created?

For example you have done some sort of contract, a word document, a excelsheet for a customer - where do you keep it after you're done?

For me it feels kinda weird to have all the files flying around on a device or in icloud.

i.e.:

Filemanagement:

Folder-Customer1
-Numbers spreadsheet
-word contract
-mp3 file

Folder-Customer2
-numbers spreadsheet
-word contract
-mp3 file


how Apple handles it:

Numbers
-spreadsheet customer1
-spreadsheet customer2

pages
-document customer1
-document customer2

...
...

Yes, it would be quite a mess to have all the files splintered like that all over the device. I don't actually keep any files within their individual apps.

For years we had a Microsoft Exchange subscription which gave us our email system. Last year they upgraded it to an Office 365 subscription which includes 1 TB of cloud space on Microsoft OneDrive. So I store all of our company files on OneDrive.

OneDrive has many protections built in... At any time you can retrieve any previous version of any file that exists on OneDrive. This would only stop working if we used up our entire 1 TB of space. However, currently we use less than 20 GB, so that's never going to happen.

If a file is deleted by accident, it can be retrieved from the Trash for up to 30 days.

So the only way to lose a file is if the file is deleted by accident and you do not notice for more than 30 days.

What I do as a protection against that is once every couple of months, I use an old PC laptop (10+ years old) to back up the entire content of the OneDrive to an external drive. I've looked into solutions to be able to do that on the iPad, but currently there are no good ones. There are lightning stick drives, but getting files from OneDrive to the lightning stick drive would have to be done one file at a time. I need an app that allows drag and drop from cloud to stick drive. I'm sure it will come soon enough, and I'm waiting....
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So it cannot run full version of photoshop then! So if someone needs full version of photoshop then what do they do? I will tell you - they need to get a "real computer". Complaining about developers etc. does not change this and magically make the iPad better than it is... it is fact and that is how I look it! Maybe it will change in future but for now this is how it is.

I don't disagree that the hardware capabilities of the iPad are real good and better than many Windows computers years ago... but iPad (IOS) is still crippled by OS restrictions, and other reasons like the way the App store works. There are some amazing apps created for iPad though and some I prefer to use on it rather than on my MacBook.

People that run iPads exclusive - I understand and appreciate are happy doing whatever things that they do and find ways to workaround the restrictions, but they should consider that there are other people in the world that may have a bit more needs than them and respect this too.

By that measure, I could say that a Mac is not a real computer because it does not run Microsoft Access, which was the main program I used on a previous job. In fact, 10 years ago one would have struggled to find many programs for the mac which were readily available for Windows.

And BTW, a Linux computer cannot run Photoshop either. I doubt anyone here would argue that a Linux computer is not a real computer.

Every OS has certain apps that have been writtten for it, and others which have not. That does not make a computer that runs that operating system any less of a computer.
 
I still have my iMac, but use it only a few hours a week, just to do some final formatting on documents. I could do that on my iPad if I paid for an Office subscription, but I don't use Office enough to justify the cost. And I have my media collection on the iMac. Everything else I do on my 12.9 iPad. Screen is almost as big as my 13 inch MacBook Air, and to me, no physical keyboard is a feature I love.

Strange because the physical keyboard is the reason why my imac is still my main device. Way faster to type, and more confortable as well.
 
Strange because the physical keyboard is the reason why my imac is still my main device. Way faster to type, and more confortable as well.

Most of what I do is read. I mean, I type from time to time, but compared to the time I spend reading, the time I spend typing is probably like about 1%. And when reading, no keyboard means less weight and less bulk.
 
In my personal life -- as I mentioned in my blog post -- there are only three areas iOS falls down for me:
  • I want to play World of Warcraft
  • I need to use a custom Lightroom Filter
  • I need to edit a Tableau workbook.
These don't happen a lot. Well, ok, Warcraft happens a lot.

If either of my two MacBooks died, I don't think I would replace it. I can surf, write, post to my blog etc. all on my iPad. I could even do a lot of my day gig stuff on iOS. I'm not 100% certain how the Office 365 apps work with a hosted SharePoint 2013 environment (I've never tried), and Visio diagramming is hard to do. OmniGraffle does handle Visio on iOS, but I've had some issues going between Visio and OmniGraffle to make me nervous about doing this with work stuff.

As other people have mentioned, the idea of "real" work is incredibly subjective. I can do more on my iOS devices than I could 1.5 years ago, and I expect to be doing more than I can do now 2 years from now.
 
My profession is an IT systems administrator so maybe I'm a bit biased in favor of traditional computers because without them I could not do my job for sure and I possibly may do things that a typical person would not do.

I see where you are coming from and it is true that the iPad cannot run a DB server (like mySQL) though it can connect to a network instance. Same goes for development like FileMaker scripting (the GO app allows editing of data only), so yes there are a number of things it cannot do. I would like to be able to do CD or download ripping or transcoding of audio, not really sure why these cannot be made to work on iOS if given access to the source. iCab allows me to download files but it is the post processing that is lacking, and these are some of the reasons I still use a Mac (or Win VM). Perhaps a synergy with MacOs is coming!
 
It depends what are doing with it and me it my go to device now and I have gotten rid of the laptop and moved everything onto a ibridge unit and that handles most of the things I do
 
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Have you guys tried to do real work on iPad? by real work I mean:
- to work on excel spreadsheets
- to have opened side by side a couple of word documents to compare
- to make a folder with various types of files relating to project and to quickly drag and drop them between folders to reorganize the contents
- to have software to enter your citations in a scientific article
etc etc

let me tell you, I have tried hard to find a workflow, which would allow me to do the above things on an iPad, but it is just not worth the effort. Too much frustration, too much wasted time for something I can do really fast and easy on my 12in MacBook.

I am very disappointed that I came to this conclusion, because I love the pencil on my 12.9IPP. I wish there was a way to be able to do my work on the iPad. But as I said, there isn't.

It is obviously a software limitation. By software I mean both the sandboxing feature of iOS, but also the software from the developers.
 
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Have you guys tried to do real work on iPad? by real work I mean:
- to work on excel spreadsheets
- to have opened side by side a couple of word documents to compare
- to make a folder with various types of files relating to project and to quickly drag and drop them between folders to reorganize the contents
- to have software to enter your citations in a scientific article
etc etc

let me tell you, I have tried hard to find a workflow, which would allow me to do the above things on an iPad, but it is just not worth the effort. Too much frustration, too much wasted time for something I can do really fast and easy on my 12in MacBook.

I am very disappointed that I came to this conclusion, because I love the pencil on my 12.9IPP. I wish there was a way to be able to do my work on the iPad. But as I said, there isn't.

It is obviously a software limitation. By software I mean both the sandboxing feature of iOS, but also the software from the developers.

First off, can anyone tell me why "real work" must be defined exclusively as anything involving spreadsheets and word documents? This just irritates me on a fundamental level every time.

I mean, sure, as a teacher, there are times when I need to work with documents, and times when even the 27” iMac display feels claustrophobic for the google spreadsheets I handle. But that's far from being the only type of work I do.
 
Is anyone here using their Pro as their main device? As in, no PC, no Mac, just an iPad Pro.

To those that are, what does your usage entail, and what changes did you have to make to move to the Pro exclusively?

Yeah I use my 12.9 iPad Pro as my main device. If I ever need a PC I use my work one. I mostly use my iPad for email, internet, reading, drawing and some light design. I felt like I was never using my Mac so I sold it. I bought a Magic Keyboard for my iPad and everything is working really well together.
 
may I ask you how you archive the documents you created?

For example you have done some sort of contract, a word document, a excelsheet for a customer - where do you keep it after you're done?

For me it feels kinda weird to have all the files flying around on a device or in icloud.

i.e.:

Filemanagement:

Folder-Customer1
-Numbers spreadsheet
-word contract
-mp3 file

Folder-Customer2
-numbers spreadsheet
-word contract
-mp3 file


how Apple handles it:

Numbers
-spreadsheet customer1
-spreadsheet customer2

pages
-document customer1
-document customer2

...
...

I couldn't disagree with you more here! What's more simple than having documents in the apps you used to create them, and if you really insist, most times you can create folders within those apps for further management. And just to make things even simpler, iCloud Drive allows you to find any file/folder you want, stored neatly within the origin app and on iCloud for safe keeping. And just for kicks you can search them all in one place if you like?

Is this not far more simple, safe, and fast to pull up, than creating a million different files entrenched within folders within folders in different file types in your own complex filing system arranged in your head, on a machine that allows any file to be created /duplicated, renamed, reformatted, and stored absolutely anywhere on your whole machine, and often with no back up whatsoever.
 
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