App Store to Be 'Split in Two' Ahead of EU iPhone Sideloading Deadline

[OneBar]

That is exactly the point, so glad you understood. If no alternative exist=then no competition exist = apple is stifling the competition by preventing it to exist in the first place.

That's not at all what the word means. It means an app store exists that Apple is actively and currently working to subvert. You cannot stifle something that is nonexistent.

I will laugh, however, when they open it up and no stores pop up because no one wants to front the initial cost of hosting, distribution, customer service, etc.

More competition=/= lower cost.

Lower cost for what, exactly? The only people complaining will take their app off of App Store and put it on their own and charge the same price. The only difference is it's going to take longer to find it and they get more profit because they're not getting charged 15% by Apple. You won't see any benefit.

It can simply have better features for everyone.
Imagine if the AppStore had these functions:

• Wishlist

Never used one. Bloatware

[*]Better search

Better than what? I've never had an issue finding an app I wanted.

• Specify Price range
• Specify category for the search
• search only free apps
• Search only for apps without IAP
• Find only apps with a watch app

Are you just surfing apps for something that looks interesting? None of that is relevant in any way.

• A report button for fake apps
• A browser version to search for easier search of apps on the computer.

And that’s just a few things,

Pretty sure you can already reports apps and what benefit would a browser version get when you'll have to go back over to the store anyway to refind the app to install?[/list]

 

[dk001]

Yall don't seem to get that there's no competition when the same app is sold at the same price on a different store. And considering the majority of apps are free with ads, Apple isn't getting any kickback from sales, so it profits no one to go to another store. Hence there's no competition.

Love the way you cherry pick the facts for your statement. WOW.

Don’t remember if you said you had used Android or not however I find the same app across multiple stores, more so I don’t. Even when I do, it is a hit/miss if the price is the same, unless it is a free or try it before you buy it app. Usually I can find it in multiple alternative app stores and on a dev site. Times I also find previous versions 👍

I am not sure what Apple’s solution will look like. Have to wait and see.

Maybe it will cut down on Apple bloatware. Doubtful though.

 

[webkit]

Yall don't seem to get that there's no competition when the same app is sold at the same price on a different store. And considering the majority of apps are free with ads, Apple isn't getting any kickback from sales, so it profits no one to go to another store. Hence there's no competition.

There absolutely could be competition if Apple didn't stifle it by restricting alternative app stores and sideloading on iOS and iPadOS.

 

[BaldiMac]

Well we are seeing legal actions from other jurisdictions.

And Apple is definitionally stifling innovation in the iOS space for AppStore’s. It’s just legal for them to do so.

Ha! "Stifling innovation in the iOS space for App Stores" is a very creative way of saying that they don't let other people control access to their own property.

I 100% agree with you and wouldn’t want that to change, but both you and me know the DMA isn’t asking for the AppStore to be opened, but the preventative measures implemented in iOS that prevent anyone who wants to offer better services can’t because of artificial barriers.

It’s the application storefronts being available on the iOS iPhones and iPadOS iPads that are lacking and close to non existent that because of anticompetitive measures.

More accurately, the DMA is forcing Apple to add features to allow the installation of software from outside the App Store. If the DMA is interpreted as you believe it will be (free uncontrolled access), then the EU is essentially socializing Apple's property for public use without any evidence that it will benefit the public.

There absolutely could be competition if Apple didn't stifle it by restricting alternative app stores and sideloading on iOS and iPadOS.

There is already a ton of competition. That's why there is a huge variety of apps at extremely low prices.

 

[webkit]

There is already a ton of competition. That's why there is a huge variety of apps at extremely low prices.

The issue is regarding app access competition which Apple stifles on a major mobile OS and tablet OS by restricting sideloading and alternative app stores.

 

[BaldiMac]

The issue is regarding app access competition which Apple stifles on a major mobile OS and tablet OS by restricting sideloading and alternative app stores.

Sure. But the competition to add middlemen to the equation isn't the crucial market that you keep making it out to be. As a consumer, competition has already created low prices and a wide variety of apps.

 

[OneBar]

Love the way you cherry pick the facts for your statement. WOW.

Don’t remember if you said you had used Android or not however I find the same app across multiple stores, more so I don’t. Even when I do, it is a hit/miss if the price is the same, unless it is a free or try it before you buy it app. Usually I can find it in multiple alternative app stores and on a dev site. Times I also find previous versions 👍

I am not sure what Apple’s solution will look like. Have to wait and see.

Maybe it will cut down on Apple bloatware. Doubtful though.

I have not used Android in phone form since whatever came on the Galaxy 3 (I think) and even then that was my in-laws' phones and I didn't spend any time on them. Otherwise I've only used FireOS.

Not that it matters. The crux here is that Android launched with other app stores already being a thing. Apple's superstore is already built and established and there's precious little incentive to go off of it to an unknown website and risk your information for a few cents potential savings. Previous versions aren't going to make much difference unless you're using an old iOS version, in which case you probably already have the older app versions.

Apple bloatware? You mean the stock apps that you can remove?

But yes, as I have already said, we'll see soon enough with the EU playing guinea pig.

 

[OneBar]

There absolutely could be competition if Apple didn't stifle it by restricting alternative app stores and sideloading on iOS and iPadOS.

Competition in what fashion? Lower quality store experience? Yet another potential source for having my financial information siphoned off? If you're paying less for the app, consider why that would be. It's not going to be because the app dev or store feels sorry for you so they charge less.

 

[I7guy]

The issue is regarding app access competition which Apple stifles on a major mobile OS and tablet OS by restricting sideloading and alternative app stores.

Seems like the app store is a legal monopoly, which is why the UK had to resort to nanny regulations to open it up. We shall see whether it’s boom or bust.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

That's not at all what the word means. It means an app store exists that Apple is actively and currently working to subvert. You cannot stifle something that is nonexistent.

There exist multiple app stores that are artificially stifled such as cydia. And a third party AppStore was created before the official AppStore launched.

And of course you can stifle something that doesn’t exist. If Apple hadn’t intentionally prevented them from being able to be accessible to normal user

I will laugh, however, when they open it up and no stores pop up because no one wants to front the initial cost of hosting, distribution, customer service, etc.

Steam?

Lower cost for what, exactly? The only people complaining will take their app off of App Store and put it on their own and charge the same price. The only difference is it's going to take longer to find it and they get more profit because they're not getting charged 15% by Apple. You won't see any benefit.

I said competition =/= lower cost, as in competition doesn’t equate lower cost in of itself.

A benefit is a wider range of acceptable software.

Never used one. Bloatware

Bloatware?

Better than what? I've never had an issue finding an app I wanted.

Are you just surfing apps for something that looks interesting? None of that is relevant in any way.

I have enormous problems trying to find appropriate applications in the store that is useful tools for me. Example if I’m looking for a good BIM application to construct or have blueprints one the job with my iPad/iphone, a good inventory app, trying to find good photo editors with ai generated content, finding some good DnD table top apps, find a functional adblocker, finding some decent electric car charger map etc etc

But every time it just ends up with me googling for reviews and recommendations to actually find a useful app at all isn’t of downloading 10 trash fake apps

And example if I’m looking for a payed apps or a free app I don’t want any ******** IAP who asks for a 100$ fee after a “trial of tree days.

Pretty sure you can already reports apps and what benefit would a browser version get when you'll have to go back over to the store anyway to refind the app to install?[/list]

For starters I might be doing work on my computer and looking if there’s an appropriate application for my iPhone,

If I want to look for a steam game, I can use the app on my phone to find a game and purchase it, if I’m on a computer that isn’t mine I can open the browser and just browse their store and purchase it there.

There’s never a need to “find” something again. So it would be great if you could login to the AppStore in the browser on a computer with a much bigger screen and purchase the needed app on the spot.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Ha! "Stifling innovation in the iOS space for App Stores" is a very creative way of saying that they don't let other people control access to their own property.

It’s a creative way of saying Apple can’t prevent owners from controlling their property indeed

More accurately, the DMA is forcing Apple to add features to allow the installation of software from outside the App Store. If the DMA is interpreted as you believe it will be (free uncontrolled access), then the EU is essentially socializing Apple's property for public use without any evidence that it will benefit the public.

Not at all, it will be as free as the Mac. And you forget it benefits the private sector AND the public to have competition and access to applications that are arbitrarily denied access for perceived moral/ethical issues or conflict of interest.

There is already a ton of competition. That's why there is a huge variety of apps at extremely low prices.

Competition doesn’t just mean cheap price. The price is based on the cost of entry.

I would say the fact the AppStore lacks basic functionality and have been loosing some of the services have degraded is evidence for no competition, there’s no pressure to be come better, because in the end of the day AppStore consumers only have one option

 

[OneBar]

There exist multiple app stores that are artificially stifled such as cydia. And a third party AppStore was created before the official AppStore launched.

And I'm sure Cydia will still be disallowed considering. Apple still built the superstore and there's exactly no incentive for using anything else aside from tinkering.

And of course you can stifle something that doesn’t exist. If Apple hadn’t intentionally prevented them from being able to be accessible to normal user

Sorry, that's not how the word is defined. Something must exist for you to stifle it. You could say Cydia is being stifled but it's also the jailbreak store so, 🤷

Steam?

Interesting option aside from their unwillingness to play nicely with macOS. I'm not sure they'd be interested in hosting an iOS App Store. They could probably, of anyone, make a run for that, though.

I said competition =/= lower cost, as in competition doesn’t equate lower cost in of itself.

A benefit is a wider range of acceptable software.

Who is making software that isn't putting it on App Store already? If it's unacceptable software, it won't matter what store you get it from, iOS won't let you load it.

Bloatware?

Extraneous and/or unnecessary code, yes.

I have enormous problems trying to find appropriate applications in the store that is useful tools for me. Example if I’m looking for a good BIM application to construct or have blueprints one the job with my iPad/iphone, a good inventory app, trying to find good photo editors with ai generated content, finding some good DnD table top apps, find a functional adblocker, finding some decent electric car charger map etc etc

But every time it just ends up with me googling for reviews and recommendations to actually find a useful app at all isn’t of downloading 10 trash fake apps

And example if I’m looking for a payed apps or a free app I don’t want any ******** IAP who asks for a 100$ fee after a “trial of tree days.

For starters I might be doing work on my computer and looking if there’s an appropriate application for my iPhone,

If I want to look for a steam game, I can use the app on my phone to find a game and purchase it, if I’m on a computer that isn’t mine I can open the browser and just browse their store and purchase it there.

There’s never a need to “find” something again. So it would be great if you could login to the AppStore in the browser on a computer with a much bigger screen and purchase the needed app on the spot.

I mean the only time I go on App Store is to update or find the app I've already researched. I've never gone on the App Store to try to locate an app to fit my need. You're not going to find the in-depth reviews or research in the Store reviews that you will online.

I can somewhat see your downloading an app while not on the phone. I will admit that I'm a bit biased in that I do all of that through my phone anyway. So I'm never on a computer anywhere researching an app to put on my phone. I mean you have to be on your phone anyway to verify the purchase and initiate the download. Your standard pc isn't going to have FID, though I'm sure they could reimplement using a passcode for purchases off of iOS.

 

[webkit]

Sure. But the competition to add middlemen to the equation isn't the crucial market that you keep making it out to be. As a consumer, competition has already created low prices and a wide variety of apps.

It very well could if Apple wasn't stifling competition by restring sideloading and alternative app stores in major mobile OS and tablet OS marketplaces.

 

[webkit]

Competition in what fashion? Lower quality store experience? Yet another potential source for having my financial information siphoned off? If you're paying less for the app, consider why that would be. It's not going to be because the app dev or store feels sorry for you so they charge less.

Competition as in sideloading from developers websites/stores and/or accessing through alternative app stores instead of being limited to just Apple's App Store for iOS and iPadOS apps.

 

[webkit]

Seems like the app store is a legal monopoly, which is why the UK had to resort to nanny regulations to open it up. We shall see whether it’s boom or bust.

Apple (iOS) has a duopoly with Google (Android) in the mobile OS and tablet OS markets. The issue is that Apple stifles app access competition by restricting sideloading and alternative app stores in those major markets and some countries/regions seem to finally be getting around to addressing the issue.

 

[I7guy]

Apple (iOS) has a duopoly with Google (Android) in the mobile OS and tablet OS markets.

There is one major operating system, one minor operating system that is customized by each manufacturer and a thousand phone manufacturers each offering something g different of value/

The issue is that Apple stifles app access competition by restricting sideloading and alternative app stores in those major markets and some countries/regions seem to finally be getting around to addressing the issue.

Well no it doesn’t.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

And I'm sure Cydia will still be disallowed considering. Apple still built the superstore and there's exactly no incentive for using anything else aside from tinkering.


Sorry, that's not how the word is defined. Something must exist for you to stifle it. You could say Cydia is being stifled but it's also the jailbreak store so, 🤷

Cydia can be disallowed on the AppStore, but Apple can’t prevent it from being installed.

Apple is stifling the market as largely the only player who prevents anything from growing.

Interesting option aside from their unwillingness to play nicely with macOS. I'm not sure they'd be interested in hosting an iOS App Store. They could probably, of anyone, make a run for that, though.

Can’t say they are not playing nice with macOS with the exception of releasing their valve games on the ARM architecture.

Who is making software that isn't putting it on App Store already? If it's unacceptable software, it won't matter what store you get it from, iOS won't let you load it.

Almost every Mac game is on steam compared the Macappstore.

It’s unacceptable by policy, iOS wouldn’t
prevent it from loading as long as it’s within the sandbox.

Extraneous and/or unnecessary code, yes.

Would say it’s useful code to list applications your interested in so you don’t forget.

I mean the only time I go on App Store is to update or find the app I've already researched. I've never gone on the App Store to try to locate an app to fit my need. You're not going to find the in-depth reviews or research in the Store reviews that you will online.

Well it would be a little easier if I can just refine the search criteria. In the store, in the older days it wanted.

I can somewhat see your downloading an app while not on the phone. I will admit that I'm a bit biased in that I do all of that through my phone anyway. So I'm never on a computer anywhere researching an app to put on my phone. I mean you have to be on your phone anyway to verify the purchase and initiate the download. Your standard pc isn't going to have FID, though I'm sure they could reimplement using a passcode for purchases off of iOS.

Well in the past you could do that with iTunes, but that functionality was removed many years ago.

 

[Ubuntu]

This will compromise iPhone security.

Some apps will not submit to the App Store in order to drive all sales to their outside store to increase profits.

Others apps will stay outside to avoid Apple review process. Bugs and deliberate surveillance will run rampant.

Fake apps will proliferate outside with no oversight.

Welcome to your diminished privacy and acct security world.

Big mistake EU. Big.

You have no idea how little a role the App Store plays in the security of iOS.

 

[BaldiMac]

You have no idea how little a role the App Store plays in the security of iOS.

Seems like a significant role.

App Store stopped nearly $1.5 billion in fraudulent transactions in 2021

App Store prevented over 1.6 million risky and untrustworthy apps and app updates from defrauding users throughout the year.

www.apple.com

 

[dk001]

I have not used Android in phone form since whatever came on the Galaxy 3 (I think) and even then that was my in-laws' phones and I didn't spend any time on them. Otherwise I've only used FireOS.

Not that it matters. The crux here is that Android launched with other app stores already being a thing. Apple's superstore is already built and established and there's precious little incentive to go off of it to an unknown website and risk your information for a few cents potential savings. Previous versions aren't going to make much difference unless you're using an old iOS version, in which case you probably already have the older app versions.

People seem to forget that Android is not an all encompassing OS. There is the Samsung version, Sony version, OnePlus version, etc….
The problem with the App Store is the tight restriction that Apple has, allowing only what it wants, removing or denying others, sometimes arbitrarily.

I cannot agree with most of what you state as it is narrow focused or/and assumes what Apple’s solution will be. They may only allow alt stores and no other types of “side loading” like you can do on most versions of Android.

Apple bloatware? You mean the stock apps that you can remove?

But yes, as I have already said, we'll see soon enough with the EU playing guinea pig.

Yes, exactly. You can remove the Apple app but cannot define a new default leaving that portion unfuntioning or erroring. Btw - for a lot of these, it doesn’t remove the app, just your devices access to it. That is a function Apple should fix; allow defining alternative defaults.

Yep! The EU is going to be the experiment. Be interesting to see the play back and forth betwixt Apple and the EU…

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

It’s their apple store. Apple is under no obligation to allow any innovation in the app store. Having said that, an open app store will have innovation. For the criminals.

Ok.

I'm glad that you agree that the app store is harming innovation. At least we all agree on that.

 

[I7guy]

I'm glad that you agree that the app store is harming innovation. At least we all agree on that.

But innovation is not yours, it’s apples. I never said they were harming innovation, I’m saying the app store is apples proprietary ip, that will soon be a public utility.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

But innovation is not yours, it’s apples. I never said they were harming innovation, I’m saying the app store is apples proprietary ip, that will soon be a public utility.

Because Apple is a gatekeeper. That's why everyone is very upset.

 

[I7guy]

Because Apple is a gatekeeper. That's why everyone is very upset.

Not everyone is upset. Apple has the right to gatekeep its ip, and you have the right to not buy it. It’s unfortunate apple is being made into a public utility and that will get the EU exactly what it wants.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Not everyone is upset. Apple has the right to gatekeep its ip, and you have the right to not buy it. It’s unfortunate apple is being made into a public utility and that will get the EU exactly what it wants.

Unfortunately their anti steering skullduggery is gatekeeping other peoples IP , it's high time Tim said sorry.