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Yeah, at this point, I hope they keep selling inexpensive iPads and iPhones with home button. My parents aren't going to fare well with FaceID only devices.

One of the nicest things about giving iOS devices to non-techies is its simplicity. The gestures and new multitasking? Not so simple.
 
16, 32 & 64GB users would naturally disagree here.
Also all my Mac files are on backup USB HDD. If I ever want to go iPad only, and if I get rid of that Mac, I still need to access those files from time to time. Perfect, now I can. And direct access to SD cards from my mirrorless camera is good too (granted most people don't have a separate camera anymore, but a good amount do). And honestly, I do lean towards only having an iPad 12.9" in the future.
 
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Mouse support is not intended for normal users, but for people with certain disabilities, hence it is enabled in "Accessibility>AssistiveTouch". I'm glad Apple is thinking about those people.

What I find more worrying is the added complexity of all the new multitasking stuff. iPadOS needs a simple mode. My mother of 74 already has a hard time understanding the iPad (iOS 12), especially multitasking, multi window (browser, and she doesn't understand how to close one, even after explaining the concept is foreign to her), and she can't see buttons clearly because of the flat design. She had an iPad since iPad 1! And always refers to that one as the one that was so simple to use. She understood the GUI back then. iOS 13 makes everything even more complex. Good for me who wants to use multi window, but many people get confused by all those functions.
Maybe you should buy a refurbished 2011 iPad 2 and then downgrade it to iOS 6.1.3 for that non-flat look?
 
Yeah, at this point, I hope they keep selling inexpensive iPads and iPhones with home button. My parents aren't going to fare well with FaceID only devices.

One of the nicest things about giving iOS devices to non-techies is its simplicity. The gestures and new multitasking? Not so simple.
There's this thinking, I guess, that technology has embedded itself in current society at such a level that hurdles have disappeared. Technology has become accessible. Technology makes things easier. It is only a question of learning things and having the willingness to learn things. I wish things were so simple. There are still so many people who have never in their life dealt with a computer. For many people it's all still very new (and even when it's not new, it still feels very foreign) even in 2019. This optimism that we can all share in these great technological advances is great. But it's so easy to dismiss the hurdles that are still there for so many people. Apple needs to be aware of it, and they are to some extent, because have added all these accessibility options. But they also have this optimism that many things can be learned, and that's the crux of the problem.
 
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Maybe you should buy a refurbished 2011 iPad 2 and then downgrade it to iOS 6.1.3 for that non-flat look?
You cannot go back. Technology doesn't work that way. There are no apps that work on old systems anymore. The web cannot be accessed on old systems. You need speed and RAM. And you need security. Try doing things on that paltry A5 chip with 512 MB RAM in 2019. Yeah, the web simply freezes. Besides, Apple doesn't sign old versions anymore, so you cannot downgrade anyway.
 
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16, 32 & 64GB users would naturally disagree here.
Not all of them.

More to the point, I think that you missed the purpose of my post which was to use the OP's own words to show that an individual's opinion is just that... individual... and an opinion. To masquerade it as some universal truth is not helpful. You fell into the same trap by claiming that people with devices at those storage points would universally be dissatisfied with the storage they have.

iPad owners are not one monolithic group with the same needs and wants. The sooner we collectively understand and accept that, the better.
 
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Stepping onto the soap box....

Regarding iPadOS
I think the external storage support was the primary need for the iPad. However, we (users) should look at everything else differently. I don't think mouse support is necessary - if you need a mouse, you need another platform. Obviously I'm not the first to say that. Devices that are really, really good at one thing provide a much better experience than a generic tool that requires compromise to complete many things.

IMO, the demands should go towards program and app developers to design and build for the iPad instead of asking Apple to compromise experience.

Stepping down...

My soapbox - I disagree. Nothing wrong with having a pointing device as optional. You don't have to use it if you don't like it.
 
So my Dad just turned 75 and my Mom is 74. I’d like to point out that when they got their first ipad2, they were a lot younger and more nimble. Heck, when we got the first iPads here, I wasn’t even divorced yet! My Dad was a programmer/system manager. He normally doesn’t have a problem with new things - but my mom I’ve noticed recently I have to do A LOT of hand holding. So all of it isn’t the OS changes, but they themselves reaching new milestones in life causing some issues. 10 years means a lot more at two times in your life - when you are a baby, and when you are “old/elderly”.

now as fas as 13.1 - I haven’t even figured it all out, but I’m pretty confident I can teach them both how to use it. Hmmmm, wonder if they have updated their phones yet. Oh and I’ve yet to induce any bizarre new features - I purposely stayed away from the beta chatter because I knew I’d cave and install it. So the how’s of the new stuff is like Christmas to me.
 
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Didn't think this thread would reach two pages ..
IMO, discoverability and intuitiveness of the OS has regressed (example: gestures which have been highlighted in this thread). My initial point of the addition of mouse (via accessibility) was more towards the poor implementation when someone is trying to use it as a conventional pointing device. I welcome new features, but so long as they improve the experience. The pencil is amazing! However much of what Apple has done (NOT everything) is feature creep. Perhaps they are rushing things to meet some sort of internal goal instead of really shaking the bugs out.

My point is Apple started without legacy in iOS/iPadOS and I'd hate for it to become a bloated mess.
 
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Not all of them.

More to the point, I think that you missed the purpose of my post which was to use the OP's own words to show that an individual's opinion is just that... individual... and an opinion. To masquerade it as some universal truth is not helpful. You fell into the same trap by claiming that people with devices at those storage points would universally be dissatisfied with the storage they have.

iPad owners are not one monolithic group with the same needs and wants. The sooner we collectively understand and accept that, the better.

Of course it's opinion - hence the soap box and IMO reference. Perhaps traps are not the best method for civil discourse.

Regarding your last point - my argument is that Apple should stop trying to appease the masses with half-baked feature implementation. Perhaps pointing out the mouse was improper since it is intended for accessibility. But my opinions ...
 
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Yes, 100% mouse support is absolutely necessary. Why? Because we want it. We want the option! Why is Apple acting like this is some impossible task? Ridiculous!
 
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I totally agree with this. Every change that Apple makes to iOS and the iPad is making the experience more difficult, more complicated, less elegant. Even though they are clearly trying hard to keep the baseline experience the same and hiding the power user features, there are still compromises being made.

I thought the iPad was a miracle product when it was first announced. I bought one right away for my parents, who were not that old, but still old enough that managing a Windows machine or a Mac was a trying experience. Ever since then it's been all the computer they've wanted, because it just works, and because they only need to be familiar with one operating system across phone and tablet.

Likewise it's been great for some of my employees who work in the field, not just the older ones but all of those who never developed fluency with regular computers. I used to get tech support calls from all directions but these have greatly diminished.

For the elderly, for people who have spent their lives working with their hands and not with screens, and for children too, the iPad has finally made the internet accessible. And what's usable for people with special needs is good design for people without them, like those Oxo kitchen utensils.

I suppose everything's got to change, though, to keep people consuming. Now setup is difficult, there are too many different long press durations that do different things, too many multi-finger gestures, weird behaviors that I guess are trying to bridge the iPad and iPhone X experiences, and a multitasking UX that I think is way more complicated than overlapping windows on a Mac.

I wonder: do children, who have grown up with iPads but not computers, who can type 60 wpm on screens, ever use split screen or any of the advanced gestures?
 
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Stepping onto the soap box....

Regarding iPadOS
I think the external storage support was the primary need for the iPad. However, we (users) should look at everything else differently. I don't think mouse support is necessary - if you need a mouse, you need another platform. Obviously I'm not the first to say that. Devices that are really, really good at one thing provide a much better experience than a generic tool that requires compromise to complete many things.

IMO, the demands should go towards program and app developers to design and build for the iPad instead of asking Apple to compromise experience.

Stepping down...
If you ask Apple it’s not mouse support it’s an accessibility features for special needs persons as I predicted over a year ago they would implement. I sincerely believe Apple doesn’t say or use the phrase mouse support.
 
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I don't think mouse support is necessary

I disagree. A mouse is virtually necessary if you ever want to use an iPad while sitting at a desk and with an external keyboard. This is something Apple shows folks doing all the time as they like to advertise that an iPad can sometimes replace a traditional computer and lots of us would love to ditch our traditional computers and go 100% iPad. Without a mouse, you wind up doing the gorilla arm thing... the exact thing that Apple has claimed is the reason they don't want to add touchscreen support to their laptops. So, they basically want us to use an iPad like a laptop but in a way they don't want us to use their very own MacBooks.

A mouse also makes it much easier to do very simple things, like copy/paste. Just watch the iPadOS event a few months ago and how that Apple guy struggled to use the new gestures while on stage. That would have been trivial and faster with a mouse.

This isn't about stubborn old folks refusing to learn how to do things a new way. It's about basic ergonomics and efficiency.

Now if you only ever use an iPad for media consumption, of course you don't need a mouse. However, try sitting at a desk and using it to do work for hours at a time and tell me you're honestly ok with having to use the touchscreen the whole time. Having proper mouse support (i.e. not just an accessibility feature) makes this so much easier to do.

Adding proper mouse support doesn't compromise the experience at all. It just gives you another option.
 
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I disagree. A mouse is virtually necessary if you ever want to use an iPad while sitting at a desk and with an external keyboard. This is something Apple shows folks doing all the time as they like to advertise that an iPad can sometimes replace a traditional computer and lots of us would love to ditch our traditional computers and go 100% iPad. Without a mouse, you wind up doing the gorilla arm thing... the exact thing that Apple has claimed is the reason they don't want to add touchscreen support to their laptops. So, they basically want us to use an iPad like a laptop but in a way they don't want us to use their very own MacBooks.

A mouse also makes it much easier to do very simple things, like copy/paste. Just watch the iPadOS event a few months ago and how that Apple guy struggled to use the new gestures while on stage. That would have been trivial and faster with a mouse.

This isn't about stubborn old folks refusing to learn how to do things a new way. It's about basic ergonomics and efficiency.

Now if you only ever use an iPad for media consumption, of course you don't need a mouse. However, try sitting at a desk and using it to do work for hours at a time and tell me you're honestly ok with having to use the touchscreen the whole time. Having proper mouse support (i.e. not just an accessibility feature) makes this so much easier to do.

Adding proper mouse support doesn't compromise the experience at all. It just gives you another option.

I don't believe Apple intends the iPad to be used at a desk like a conventional computer. All of this laptop replacement talk comes mostly from the tech press. The "what's a computer?" commercial was a confusing miss.


It's being marketed for content creation and consumption. Not office work. They even state similar in the link: "iPad works with a keyboard when you need one". Emphasis, mine. The gestures you mentioned are an example of Apple not completely solving the problem before release. I think the rapid release cycle has been detrimental to the stability and experience (be damned project managers!)

I get it, many people want the iPad to be everything to them. But sometimes you just need different tools for the task at hand.
A multitool will turn a Philips head screw when necessary, but a proper screwdriver will do the job much better. Personally, I prefer specialized tools as they are much more efficient.

But as mentioned before, this is my opinion. You have yours and I don't think you're wrong for it.
 
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Huh?

I love the mouse support. I use it all of the time. But sure, complain about something you won’t use anyway - because you think it takes time away from things that you’d rather them work on? Doesn’t really make much sense - it’s the largest computer company in the world, I don’t think their short on devs, but ok.
 
I completely want to use a mouse with my ipad. I want it work better than the half-assed way they have implemented it.
 
I wonder: do children, who have grown up with iPads but not computers, who can type 60 wpm on screens, ever use split screen or any of the advanced gestures?

Interesting question. I don't know myself but I can speculate that it depends on what the kid is using the iPad for. If the iPad is bought for them for pure consumption device (watching youtube) and playing games then for sure not. But I would argue that playing games is also cool on big phone or iPad mini. In other words yes they can use iPad for this and not use multi screen but that is rather nothing unique for the device and it does not warrant the price of the iPad Pro and even the regular iPad.

However if those kids have to use the iPad for studying and they have no computer then not using split screen makes things really slow. If you have to do some research and then write paper on it. The whole idea of switching between Safari and say Word or Pages would not be good experience or be efficient. Not only it requires switching a lot but due to iOS memory management apps would get reloaded constantly and make you lose even more time.

I am new to iOS and Apple own apps so I followed some tutorial in Books app. I had to switch between Safari, Notes and iMovie for the tutorial itself. I was also skyping with a friend. I used English for Safari and Bulgarian (my mother language) for Skype. It was PITA to use those 4 apps in the same time and to switch between them. The languages switch did not help either. The constant apps reloading just finished the nice picture.

Another example. I sometimes play with Procreate. I am not expert however. So I usually look for RGB codes for colors I need in Safari or for some pictures or tutorial on say how to make realistic hair. The switching between ProCreate and Safari is not that cool experience either.

To sum up - if Apple wants to promote the iPad as educational device and we assume that it would be children's only device then yes they would need those complex features or they would need someway to do those kind of things. Other option is just to say that iPads are pure consumption devices and to not be used for anything else.
 
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iOS 6 Safari seems to work just fine.
My experience has been that the current web on an A5 processor and 512MB RAM is very poor. Too many sites won't load fast enough and stall, and many sites (with lots of javascript) simply crash as Safari runs out of memory. But I don't know if iOS 6 and an A5 is better, because it has been a long time since I used iOS 6. But iOS 7-8-9 with an A5 and 512 MB RAM is just a very slow browsing experience with lots of crashes as Safari tries to load a webpage. But I do remember that iOS 8 browser was actually better than 9, and the frequent crashes came with 9, but I couldn't return the iPad to 8 again as Apple didn't sign iOS 8 anymore.
 
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This is my biggest gripe. Microsoft would want individuals who have some kind of handicap or assessibility issues to have it. But why can’t they give us the full mouse support for those who really want it that will ALSO help those who are handicapped? If you don’t wanna use it don’t use it, but I do completely, not half backed.
 
It’s not just elderly people that respond better to more simplistic interfaces. There are a lot of people that just want to turn on their computer and get to their favorite web site, or their favoritee app, or whatever very simple thing they use a computer for.

And the odd time they have to do something in Settings, or they have to move an icon on the desktop, or whatever, they want to learn it once and not be awed 2 years later by some fancy new menu to do the same thing that power users would appreciate.

Back in the day, I sold a lot of people on Apple because I explained to them how every time Microsoft came out with a new version of Windows or Google released a new version of Android, they would change around how things were done, they would usually improve them. But you’d have to learn the new way to do it.

The old Apple way definitely appeals to elderly people. But it also appeals to people who are no more interested in computers than they are in TV. Most people have no interest in using their TV. They just want to watch their TV. And there are a lot of people out there who approach computers the same way. Although there are probably very few of them like that on an internet message board dedicated to discussing Apple devices.

Now all those people I sold on Apple are having to deal with Apple doing the same thing they chose Apple to begin with to get away from.I stilll think Apple does a better job at it than their competitors. But they’re still doing it.

I wish Apple left open some option where people could use iPadOS or iOS on their iPad. And iOS was left simpler. Like maybe the cheap iPads run iOS and the Pros run iPadOS, by default. Or something like that. Don’t know which way you would push the Airs.
 
Stepping onto the soap box....

Regarding iPadOS
I think the external storage support was the primary need for the iPad. However, we (users) should look at everything else differently. I don't think mouse support is necessary - if you need a mouse, you need another platform. Obviously I'm not the first to say that. Devices that are really, really good at one thing provide a much better experience than a generic tool that requires compromise to complete many things.

IMO, the demands should go towards program and app developers to design and build for the iPad instead of asking Apple to compromise experience.

Stepping down...

Who are you to say we don't need certain options?

If you don't need them yourself just don't use it. But if Apple gives us options even better.

I don't understand people complaining about having options. If you don't need it just don't use it. Other people might really need it.

The other day some writer at Gizmodo was complaining about dark mode coming everywhere. Jeez, if you don't like dark mode just don't enable it. But there are many like me who love it.
 
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