All iPads Apple (and we) need to stop

[Kal-037]

Stepping onto the soap box....

Regarding iPadOS
I think the external storage support was the primary need for the iPad. However, we (users) should look at everything else differently. I don't think mouse support is necessary - if you need a mouse, you need another platform. Obviously I'm not the first to say that. Devices that are really, really good at one thing provide a much better experience than a generic tool that requires compromise to complete many things.

IMO, the demands should go towards program and app developers to design and build for the iPad instead of asking Apple to compromise experience.

Stepping down...

Agree with the mouse, and a little on storage. BUT at the same time having the option to throw more storage on or easily transfer data to a separate hard drive is a good feature for any device. As for pointing devices/mice... I never understood why a mouse was requested or wanted so much on a device that is ridiculously accurate with basic touch display tech... let alone a brilliantly accurate with a pencil. The Apple Pencil and crazy accurate touch display makes mice seem like a 200-year old invention.

 

[0989382]

Not all of them.

More to the point, I think that you missed the purpose of my post which was to use the OP's own words to show that an individual's opinion is just that... individual... and an opinion. To masquerade it as some universal truth is not helpful. You fell into the same trap by claiming that people with devices at those storage points would universally be dissatisfied with the storage they have.

iPad owners are not one monolithic group with the same needs and wants. The sooner we collectively understand and accept that, the better.

This is an internet forum, everybody who posts is posting their opinion. And if they only posted fact, it wouldn't be a discussion board...

I disagree. A mouse is virtually necessary if you ever want to use an iPad while sitting at a desk and with an external keyboard. This is something Apple shows folks doing all the time as they like to advertise that an iPad can sometimes replace a traditional computer and lots of us would love to ditch our traditional computers and go 100% iPad. Without a mouse, you wind up doing the gorilla arm thing... the exact thing that Apple has claimed is the reason they don't want to add touchscreen support to their laptops. So, they basically want us to use an iPad like a laptop but in a way they don't want us to use their very own MacBooks.

A mouse also makes it much easier to do very simple things, like copy/paste. Just watch the iPadOS event a few months ago and how that Apple guy struggled to use the new gestures while on stage. That would have been trivial and faster with a mouse.

This isn't about stubborn old folks refusing to learn how to do things a new way. It's about basic ergonomics and efficiency.

Now if you only ever use an iPad for media consumption, of course you don't need a mouse. However, try sitting at a desk and using it to do work for hours at a time and tell me you're honestly ok with having to use the touchscreen the whole time. Having proper mouse support (i.e. not just an accessibility feature) makes this so much easier to do.

Adding proper mouse support doesn't compromise the experience at all. It just gives you another option.

If you're using an iPad in a way where a mouse is a necessity you'd be better suited with a laptop or Surface line device. That's you using the wrong tool for the job. The right tools already exist.

 

[RayB4]

My elderly mom has the same problem. But her dying iPad 2 was already on iOS 9, and that GUI was already difficult for her. With each release from iOS 7 on, things constantly changed, and elderly people simply can't cope with change, I've learned. They learn something, or expect something, and now it's suddenly different (even if it's just surface level, it is very difficult for them). She always refers to the old iPad (1) as the one that did things better. iOS 4 to iOS 6 was her OS (buttons and things were more "3D"). iBooks app with the wooden shelves was very easy for her to understand and she could flick between categories by flicking between shelves. The current iBooks app is very complex if you want to switch categories. There is a higher level of thinking involved that some elderly people can't do if they never in their life dealt with computers. The current music app has very small targets for play and pause. She can't see them well enough. And there are many more difficulties.

Yes, you can turn off multiple apps, but you can't turn off multi windows in Safari. You can't turn off multitasking gestures like moving from the bottom of screen and up. But she just has to deal with all those things. She's frustrated a lot. So a device that could help her read a little, and do stuff independently becomes a source of frustration and she constantly needs help.

I know this post was a week ago but I can’t let it pass. To suggest that elderly people are confused by current iOS releases is rather patronising. SOME elderly people may find the constant updates confusing but not all of us do. I’m 74 and I am happy with the updates and I’m looking forward to updating to iOS 13 when it’s finally bug free, and several of my friends (some even older than me) feel the same. Please don’t think that as we get older we all find the modern world confusing!

BTW - OP from your avatar can I assume that you are an Arsenal supporter? I’ve been a season ticket holder there for about 35 years.

 

[levander]

I know this post was a week ago but I can’t let it pass. To suggest that elderly people are confused by current iOS releases is rather patronising. SOME elderly people may find the constant updates confusing but not all of us do. I’m 74 and I am happy with the updates and I’m looking forward to updating to iOS 13 when it’s finally bug free, and several of my friends (some even older than me) feel the same. Please don’t think that as we get older we all find the modern world confusing!

BTW - OP from your avatar can I assume that you are an Arsenal supporter? I’ve been a season ticket holder there for about 35 years.

Congratulations on being 74 and not being confused by this stuff! It’s good to hear.

My stereotype about seniors not liking changing technology has nothing to do with any mental capacity limitation, Most of them are plenty mentally capable. It’s simply because they grew up and lived so much of their lives before computer interfaces became so advanced. If they sat down today and invested the time in becoming comfortable with these systems, there’s little doubt in my mind they could do it. And after investing their time in their first system, adapting to changes would become easier. But they’ve just never made that investment where working with computers became a hobby. And they really became fluent with the topic.

Young people these days sit around all day long on computers, playing games, hacking each other’s web site accounts, etc.. This stuff is far from complicated enough that the little we slow down as we age would hinder us from learning it. It’s just that it’s frustrating and people who didn’t grow up with this stuff, most of them haven’t taken the time yet.

That!s my take anyway.

 

[sparksd]

Congratulations on being 74 and not being confused by this stuff! It’s good to hear.

My stereotype about seniors not liking changing technology has nothing to do with any mental capacity limitation, Most of them are plenty mentally capable. It’s simply because they grew up and lived so much of their lives before computer interfaces became so advanced. If they sat down today and invested the time in becoming comfortable with these systems, there’s little doubt in my mind they could do it. And after investing their time in their first system, adapting to changes would become easier. But they’ve just never made that investment where working with computers became a hobby. And they really became fluent with the topic.

Young people these days sit around all day long on computers, playing games, hacking each other’s web site accounts, etc.. This stuff is far from complicated enough that the little we slow down as we age would hinder us from learning it. It’s just that it’s frustrating and people who didn’t grow up with this stuff, most of them haven’t taken the time yet.

That!s my take anyway.

As another senior here, I also strongly disagree with that stereotype.

Stereotype: "A widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing."

 

[levander]

As another senior here, I also strongly disagree with that stereotype.

Stereotype: "A widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing."

I used the word stereotype intentionally to make it clear I knew there would be plenty of exceptions.

If you don’t think most seniors don’t like having to adapt to technology as it changes at today’s pace, well. Good for you. I was just posting what my impression is.

If you’re worried about any kind of discrimination, from people like me, maybe just mention in conversation you have fun playing with new technology. It’s not like I’m gonna turn all skeptical and not believe you.

And I would pretty much assume any senior on this board for longer than 3 minutes isn’t confused by changes made during an operating system update. Well! No more confused than any of the rest of us anyway. There’d be no reason for the Senior to be here to begin with if he were. He/she were for the gender reference sensitive...

 

[The Man]

I know this post was a week ago but I can’t let it pass. To suggest that elderly people are confused by current iOS releases is rather patronising. SOME elderly people may find the constant updates confusing but not all of us do. I’m 74 and I am happy with the updates and I’m looking forward to updating to iOS 13 when it’s finally bug free, and several of my friends (some even older than me) feel the same. Please don’t think that as we get older we all find the modern world confusing!

BTW - OP from your avatar can I assume that you are an Arsenal supporter? I’ve been a season ticket holder there for about 35 years.

Oh sure, I'm not saying nobody can learn things once you get older. Of course, a person like me is going to speak in generalizations when conveying experiences, especially when the same thing is repeated to me by many people. It's not my aim to be condescending. I'm glad there are seniors who can deal with technology very well. It's just I have a lot of family members who are exactly like my mother -- my father was also like that before he passed away. Persons who have never dealt with any technology their entire life -- or dealt with technology but it was more of a closed set of actions, like push thing on screen, scan, push button there, done.

Things can be learned, sure, but with a computer there is little reference to the world certain people lived through to grasp certain concepts, these virtual things on a screen. If you have already had some dealings with technology in your life, this will be easier. Also, in talking to older family members and acquaintances, the constant changing of things is a hard thing to deal with for many. I think it is inherent to people that they grow to like and get fond of the familiar. And when things change, the question becomes: why? And this question lingers on and on and on. Actions also become more of a memory recall than grasping the idea behind things. And once certain people get frustrated, it's also difficult to have them learn new things. Some people just push technology away because it isn't "fun" anymore. And constant change can cause that.

So maybe a lot of seniors have no problem with all these things, but in my direct surroundings I've found out it is a problem.

 

[jerryk]

I say let the market decide. If people don't like the direction iPad sales will slow.

Personally I have no issue with mouse or external device support.

 

[RayB4]

I didn’t take offence but felt it had to be said. And by the way we do prefer to be called ‘seniors’ rather than ‘the elderly’ it is more dignified.

 

[sparksd]

I didn’t take offence but felt it had to be said. And by the way we do prefer to be called ‘seniors’ rather than ‘the elderly’ it is more dignified.

I'm going with "old coot" these days. Now if you'll excuse me, there's someone out on my lawn ...

 

[RayB4]

I'm going with "old coot" these days. Now if you'll excuse me, there's someone out on my lawn ...

😁

 

[MrRabuf]

If you're using an iPad in a way where a mouse is a necessity you'd be better suited with a laptop or Surface line device. That's you using the wrong tool for the job. The right tools already exist.

Try writing a document or working on a spreadsheet on an iPad for a few hours (again, workflows Apple encourages on these devices) and tell me you honestly think you're better off without using a mouse. Like I said, even doing something as simple as copying and pasting is ridiculously easier with a mouse. Apple wants you to use these devices while sitting at a desk (else why sell a Smart Keyboard). There's no reason Apple shouldn't add 1st class support for mice.

Just like Apple has said for years when defending their decision to not add touch support to MacBooks, having to reach up and touch the display is stupid.

 

[ZeitGeist]

I empathize with the challenges your mother experiences. Apple would be better to revisit their "It Just Works" mantra. It's becoming more of "doing because we can (kinda)".

More like - checking off marketing gimmick bullet points.

 

[The Man]

I didn’t take offence but felt it had to be said. And by the way we do prefer to be called ‘seniors’ rather than ‘the elderly’ it is more dignified.

I think it's a generational thing (and a cultural thing). When you are brought up with the saying we should respect the elderly, the word has no negative connotation to it. It doesn't denote a special attribute to people other than having reached a certain age (and what that age is shifts through time). It's just a word you learn as a kid. I guess some see it as an example of ageism. Sure, what is considered an acceptable term shifts through time.

 

[sparksd]

I think it's a generational thing (and a cultural thing). When you are brought up with the saying we should respect the elderly, the word has no negative connotation to it. It doesn't denote a special attribute to people other than having reached a certain age (and what that age is shifts through time). It's just a word you learn as a kid. I guess some see it as an example of ageism. Sure, what is considered an acceptable term shifts through time.

Yeah, but it's a term you really don't like when it's applied to you. You'll see what I mean when you get there.

 

[levander]

I didn’t take offence but felt it had to be said. And by the way we do prefer to be called ‘seniors’ rather than ‘the elderly’ it is more dignified.

I may have used elderly in one of my posts above when I meant senior.

Elderly is when we get old enough we start having seriously disabling health problems largely due to simply aging that we need help with. And as a person who has had to recover from a disabling health condition, it is often encouraging when someone around you acknowledges they are aware you need some help here and there. Because way too many people in our culture just ignore when people need help. So I don’t consider elderly a negative term. Just a term that was misused a couple of times in this thread.

 

[whiteonline]

Who are you to say we don't need certain options?

If you don't need them yourself just don't use it. But if Apple gives us options even better.

I don't understand people complaining about having options. If you don't need it just don't use it. Other people might really need it.

The other day some writer at Gizmodo was complaining about dark mode coming everywhere. Jeez, if you don't like dark mode just don't enable it. But there are many like me who love it.

I'm expressing my opinion, not making policy.
It's not about complaining of options. My concern comes with introducing bloat and unneeded legacy into the OS.

Try writing a document or working on a spreadsheet on an iPad for a few hours (again, workflows Apple encourages on these devices) and tell me you honestly think you're better off without using a mouse. Like I said, even doing something as simple as copying and pasting is ridiculously easier with a mouse. Apple wants you to use these devices while sitting at a desk (else why sell a Smart Keyboard). There's no reason Apple shouldn't add 1st class support for mice.

Just like Apple has said for years when defending their decision to not add touch support to MacBooks, having to reach up and touch the display is stupid.

The smart keyboard is great for the grab/go and bang out an email. Not a full day input device.
Check Apple's iPad Pro web page - it is promoting touch input for content creation and consumption. The keyboard is mentioned as an accessory to enhance typing input, but nothing even close to office productivity tasks.

 

[0989382]

Try writing a document or working on a spreadsheet on an iPad for a few hours (again, workflows Apple encourages on these devices) and tell me you honestly think you're better off without using a mouse. Like I said, even doing something as simple as copying and pasting is ridiculously easier with a mouse. Apple wants you to use these devices while sitting at a desk (else why sell a Smart Keyboard). There's no reason Apple shouldn't add 1st class support for mice.

Just like Apple has said for years when defending their decision to not add touch support to MacBooks, having to reach up and touch the display is stupid.

I do it daily, no issues.

 

[jjudson]

The iPad screen just doesn’t have enough real estate to use multitasking effectively. The resolution of the windows compounds this. It’s nice that they’ve added features — some may find them useful — but I’ve found this latest update hasn’t really changed how I use the device much at all.

 

[secretk]

The iPad screen just doesn’t have enough real estate to use multitasking effectively. The resolution of the windows compounds this. It’s nice that they’ve added features — some may find them useful — but I’ve found this latest update hasn’t really changed how I use the device much at all.

Which iPad are you using? I am more and more thinking that only 12.9 inch iPad is useful for split screen functionality. Granted I have eye issues and don't have the best vision so that's a factor too.