Apple Argued Safari Is Three Different Browsers to Avoid Regulation

[I7guy]

And yet we still have a few hundred computer manufacturers across the globe. Software and hardware are two different industries.

You are making a giant mistake of thinking the software must be distinct from the hardware. If Apple leaves, not only will iOS disappear but iPhones will also disappear. And multiple manufacturers can take their place offering their own flavour of android or a new Os etc. that’s for them to decide what they want to invest in.

No, Apple lawyers are the pedantic ones who think they can use legal arguments against technical experts to argue a difference without meaningful distinction.

Not EUs fault Apple doesn’t know how to make logically coherent argument’s.

Irrespective if Apple ls harming the consumer is kind of irrelevant as they are harming the market. Apple is the one who argued it’s different.

As I said before let the EU control android, it’s already a public utility.

 

[I7guy]

Well, companies that love to circumvent taxes on a large scale and build up an anticompetitive market on top has no value to any country, and the tax topic is the next thing the EU will tackle.

Yes, they will never close the shop here, greed is one of their core values, and their greed is starting to bounce back to the US. Just watch their unnecessary US price increases. If they would care for the humanity as shown in their fake ads, they would keep the prices stable or even lower it during harder economical times, specially since they are sitting on a pile of money.

Anyway, Apple would walk over dead bodies for a sack of gold.

Let the EU develop their own google, Facebook and smartphone platform if they devalue American tech that much.

 

[farmboy]

See how Apple forced you into their Apple bubble! 😜

Comparison of browser engines - Wikipedia

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View attachment 2307192

List of web browsers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I use Chrome, Edge and Safari. There is no bubble.

 

[jz0309]

No, Apple lawyers are the pedantic ones who think they can use legal arguments against technical experts to argue a difference without meaningful distinction.

are you calling the EU politicians "technical experts"? they are driven by lobbyists who in themselves are no technical experts either ... but whatever

 

[Sophisticatednut]

They supposedly want to encourage competition. As it stands, WebKit on iOS is the only thing standing in the way of Chromium being pretty much the only option. Allowing Chromium on iOS just serves to allow it to become even more monopolistic than it already is. Even if more competition wasn’t their goal, in the end they’re just helping Google gain more power on the internet as a whole.

No, they want to mitigate competitive harm to the market. If a player takes over the market without playing dirty, then that’s fine. Just look at the exact complaints EU made towards Microsoft in 2009 ~ had to do with internet explorer and how they prevented effective competition of rival software.

saying "Microsoft's tying of Internet Explorer to the Windows operating system harms competition between web browsers, undermines product innovation and ultimately reduces consumer choice.

Eu and USA have different legal customs and goals they see as problematic.

 

[Plutonius]

I've been arguing to my girlfriend that I am really three separate people and therefore should have two additional girlfriends.

Maybe I need Apple's lawyers to draft a memo to her on my behalf.

Why would anyone want two more girlfriends (or wives) ? Isn't it hard enough to keep one happy .

Apple has pretty good lawyers so their argument might work.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Some being reasonable doesn't give EU right to force the unreasonable ones.

Good job on USB-C, but this one is bs.

The EU gets to define their rights; that is the point of government. They have the right if they decide they have the right.

 

[slb]

Google’s stranglehold of web browser technology will be complete once EU forces Apple to allow third party engines on iPhone. At the moment, Safari is the only real world alternative for Google’s technology.

Google will release native Chromium, and Chrome and Edge will start using it.

The point is users will have the choice to use them or not, making such a "stranglehold" voluntary. If Apple wants people to use Safari, they should make Safari the better browser to use.

 

[rhemy123]

I'm also three different people.

that's why you should start ponying up more in taxes my friend.

 

[slb]

Please elaborate on its inferiority as an end-user

I can't even use Safari's tab groups on Mac without it desyncing or crashing within 20 minutes. It's been this way for me ever since tab groups came out. Every time a new version of Safari comes out, I try it with the hope that it's stable, and yet again, the browser eventually either crashes or new tabs start disappearing right after I create them.

 

[slb]

Apple is known for its tight integration of hardware and software stability. The EU’s DMA seems to destroy that tight integration by forcing third party core technologies like a browser engine. What’s next, forcing changes to security and privacy, also something Apple is known for? Remember Flash player? When users got nailed by Flash’s numerous security issues who did they blame? Not Adobe.

This argument is nonsense. Apple is only known for software stability, security, and privacy on fan sites, and those aren't things you can have a "monopoly" with like a pre-installed browser app.

 

[bousozoku]

Other engines = security issues on the platform + tracking.

Other engines are more secure, especially that of Firefox.

 

[Martinpa]

I thought MSFT switched Edge to the Chromium engine because web developers never made an effort to support their proprietary one, so web pages would render incorrectly or just perform worse?

It might not be the ideal outcome, but there is something nice about technology being standardized. (Just look at how Apple is leaning into the whole USB-C transition)

Standardized technology, yes. But when the standard is proprietary

No, they want to mitigate competitive harm to the market. If a player takes over the market without playing dirty, then that’s fine. Just look at the exact complaints EU made towards Microsoft in 2009 ~ had to do with internet explorer and how they prevented effective competition of rival software.

Still is shortsighted. What’s more harmful than no options at all in a market? With the power Chromium already exerts, it’ll lead to that sooner rather than later, and with no competition what incentive does Google have to work user-first technology that doesn’t help their monetary bottom line? Legislation is playing catch-up with technology instead of thinking just a little bit ahead.

The point is users will have the choice to use them or not, making such a "stranglehold" voluntary. If Apple wants people to use Safari, they should make Safari the better browser to use.

In a theoretical free market, that’s what should happen. But anyone who truly believes that a free market necessarily leads to the better options winning out in the end is unimaginably naive. Political interests, power dynamics, sheer dumb luck, etc. play a huge factor in success. Blu-ray won not because it was better, but because the porn industry and the PS4 adopted it. Can’t imagine the whole porn industry sided with one format without there being an incentive for them.

 

[Wildkraut]

Then all you have is another OS/2. That went really well…



OK. If that's the case, why aren't webOS, KaiOS, etc. successful? What prevents you from buying a phone that doesn't run Android or iOS? Because it sure ain't Apple. It's companies not wanting to target more than two platforms.

Funny that you named OS2/Warp, which was one of my favorite operating systems beside IRIX from SGI.
Did you ever try it? Sound's like not.

Anyway, it was a great 32bit OS developed in partnership between Microsoft and IBM, far better than anything Microsoft had to offer in that time, but it was anti-competitively forced out of the market later by Microsoft by anti-competitive contracts with third-party manufacturers, once the partnership broke.

Sadly the EU Digital Markets Act didn't exist back in that time.

 

[arkmannj]

As long as it can be locked down on kids devices and on company devices then I have less of an issue. But also if this is a big sticking point then people could use an alternative like Android devices right?

 

[SanderEvers]

I agree with Apple here. Safari is different on iOS, iPadOS and MacOS. Though I don't really care either way, I will never use Chrome or Edge on an Apple device. Safari has by far the best battery life and memory usage of all of them.

 

[SanderEvers]

In a theoretical free market, that’s what should happen. But anyone who truly believes that a free market necessarily leads to the better options winning out in the end is unimaginably naive. Political interests, power dynamics, sheer dumb luck, etc. play a huge factor in success. Blu-ray won not because it was better, but because the porn industry and the PS4 adopted it. Can’t imagine the whole porn industry sided with one format without there being an incentive for them.

And because BluRay was actually better than HD-DVD. By far. Also if this claim was true, Betamax would have beaten VHS. Which.. it didn't.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

If you used other browsers you would know.

I use other browsers. Please quantify the inferior engine. Technically speaking, cite the caveats, limitations and out right limitations or just stop spreading FUD.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Standardized technology, yes. But when the standard is proprietary


Still is shortsighted. What’s more harmful than no options at all in a market? With the power Chromium already exerts, it’ll lead to that sooner rather than later, and with no competition what incentive does Google have to work user-first technology that doesn’t help their monetary bottom line? Legislation is playing catch-up with technology instead of thinking just a little bit ahead.



In a theoretical free market, that’s what should happen. But anyone who truly believes that a free market necessarily leads to the better options winning out in the end is unimaginably naive. Political interests, power dynamics, sheer dumb luck, etc. play a huge factor in success. Blu-ray won not because it was better, but because the porn industry and the PS4 adopted it. Can’t imagine the whole porn industry sided with one format without there being an incentive for them.

Concerning VHS vs. Betamax, yes VHS won out because it was far less expensive for the production and consumption of Porn on VHS.

Blu-Ray never won anything. It has always been a niche market. Neither had anything to do with the Playstation. Playstation adopted Blu-Ray because Sony invented it.

 

[a m u n]

Think different.

 

[now i see it]

iOS Safari IS three distinct browsers:

1. Horrible
2. Terrible
3. Awful

 

[IG88]

I hope they like Electron apps, because that’s what’s coming next.

 

[cicalinarrot]

I don't blame Apple, I blame how soft society is with corporations.
Trying to avoid legislation should be punished and executives should be held responsible. Misquoting uncle Ben, with great money should come great accountability.
Good job, EU. I can't believe devices that lock out third party software are still allowed to exist.

 

[ACHD]

Forcing webkit on everyone? What about Android, Windows, and Linux users? Oh, you mean just Apple users who make up a significant minority of the web browsing universe. Gatekeeper my ass. Can’t Apple users choose to leave the platform for some other gatekeeper? Like Google?

actually... they can't pick another gatekeeper on ios and iPadOS.. they literally Can't....Chrome is just reskinned safari as a requirement from apple.

Also over 20% of the world uses Safari.

of those using safari they have no choice but to use safari literally... That issue is on a given platform there is 0 choice.

Firefox, Opera, Chrome, on iOS and iPadOS are reskinned and rebadged Safari only.

 

[Havoc035]

Google’s stranglehold of web browser technology will be complete once EU forces Apple to allow third party engines on iPhone. At the moment, Safari is the only real world alternative for Google’s technology.

Google will release native Chromium, and Chrome and Edge will start using it.

Well done, EU, especially when they are doing this to “foster innovation and competition” 😂

EU is delusional if they think that new web browser engines will emerge because of this. They do not emerge even now; not for Windows, not for Mac, not for Android. Even Microsoft gave up the development of their own because it’s insanely complex.

I find it amusing that MacRumours forum members are actually rooting for this.

This is a very likely consequence of regulating Safari and it could seriously harm the web.