Apple built a DirectX 12 translation layer for Apple Silicon

[senttoschool]

New Edit: Apple is not using CrossOver. Although Apple does contribute to Wine codebase, Apple's DX12 translation is different from Codeweaver's. In fact, someone has already made a wrapper around this so you can play DX12 games on Apple Silicon.

Wrapper to play DX12 games on Apple Silicon: https://github.com/IsaacMarovitz/Whisky/releases/tag/pre-0.2.0

Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36222266

Edit: Apple is using CrossOver by Codeweavers.

Apple built a D12 translation layer for Game Porting Toolkit. And they open sourced it. This means, we may have emulators built around it soon.

There were a lot of people here, over the last 2 years, who said Apple doesn't care of want AAA games. I argued that Apple does, but they never had the capability. Now they do.

Can we put this argument to rest now? Apple does want AAA games. Otherwise, they wouldn't have put in a huge effort to create a translation layer between Metal and D12 and create Game Porting Toolkit. They literally just told devs how much they want them to port AAA games over.

 

[Xiao_Xi]

they wouldn't have put in a huge effort to create a translation layer between Metal and D12 and create Game Porting Toolkit.

Instead of playing lots of games now through translation, do we have to wait for developers to convert their games to Metal?

Apple built a D12 translation layer for Game Porting Toolkit. And they open sourced it.

I didn't get that impression from the video. Do you have the link to the repository?

 

[galad]

They could have waited a few hours for the WWDC talk about it, before making a lot of unverified and wrong claims.
Youtubers gotta get those views eh.

https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10123 will be available in ten minutes.

 

[leman]

Open sourced? Where? Do you have a link?

 

[Barbabenno]

Or is there confusion with the Crossover DirectX 12 support that was announced a few days ago?

 

[leman]

Or is there confusion with the Crossover DirectX 12 support that was announced a few days ago?

No, the new Xcode includes a tool for evaluating performance of DX12 games.

 

[galad]

Yes, the download is not available yet, so we don't know how it's actually implemented, it could be wine + apple's own directx12 to metal translator, or something else.
Anyway, it's not something for end-users. They don't want to kill even the few native games like it happened on Linux, I guess they thought that seeing their game already running on macOS might encourage the developer to port it to macOS, or something like that.

 

[jmho]

I'm interested to see how they stop end-users from using it, or if they even want to. In the demo it looks like the only thing you need is the .exe.

 

[sunny5]

Well, they still dont care about the gaming because Mac platform itself is hostile to games:

1. Mac itself is very expensive to play games
2. GPU performance is poor
3. Only a few people play on Mac
4. Lack gaming related technology
5. No new games
6. No killer titles to attract users
7. Difficult to support Apple Silicon Mac in many ways.

Overall, who really wish to support their games on Mac since it's not really profitable? Nintendo has a poor gaming device and yet they are getting huge amount of profits from their own games which proves that the platform is really important. Mac has no such thing.

 

[Longplays]

Why not DirectX 12 Ultimate that came out March 2020?

 

[jmho]

Well, they still dont care about the gaming because Mac platform itself is hostile to games:

1. Mac itself is very expensive to play games
2. GPU performance is poor
3. Only a few people play on Mac
4. Lack gaming related technology
5. No new games
6. No killer titles to attract users
7. Difficult to support Apple Silicon Mac in many ways.

Overall, who really wish to support their games on Mac since it's not really profitable? Nintendo has a poor gaming device and yet they are getting huge amount of profits from their own games which proves that the platform is really important. Mac has no such thing.

I'll give you 1, 2, and 3.

4. is questionable, because actually there are a ton of great technologies that Apple have been adding.

5. Will be helped MASSIVELY by this tool.

6. I'll give you, because Apple should really be pushing 1st party games if they want this push to work.

7. Nah, Apple Silicon is actually really nice to develop for, it's just nobody could be bothered doing it because of points 1-7.

I've been consistently skeptical about gaming on Mac, but actually having seen this tool I'd say there is a ~30%+ chance we might start seeing an actual decent number of games start showing up for Apple Silicon.

 

[sunny5]

I'll give you 1, 2, and 3.

4. is questionable, because actually there are a ton of great technologies that Apple have been adding.

5. Will be helped MASSIVELY by this tool.

6. I'll give you, because Apple should really be pushing 1st party games if they want this push to work.

7. Nah, Apple Silicon is actually really nice to develop for, it's just nobody could be bothered doing it because of points 1-7.

I've been consistently skeptical about gaming on Mac, but actually having seen this tool I'd say there is a ~30%+ chance we might start seeing an actual decent number of games start showing up for Apple Silicon.

4. Not really. There are quite a lot of gaming related technology that Apple or Mac does not have. This is something that you can not ignore.

5. Porting games does NOT mean it will be better.

6. They should acquire 1st party games just for Mac platform.

7. In reality, it's not. All PC/Console games are PC based and therefore, Mac is just difficult to work with.

 

[galad]

For example? What is Metal missing?
And what does it means that PC/Console games are PC based? Getting a game to run on a PS5 or a Switch is no easier than getting it working on macOS.

 

[bcortens]

Well, they still dont care about the gaming because Mac platform itself is hostile to games:

1. Mac itself is very expensive to play games
2. GPU performance is poor
3. Only a few people play on Mac
4. Lack gaming related technology
5. No new games
6. No killer titles to attract users
7. Difficult to support Apple Silicon Mac in many ways.

Overall, who really wish to support their games on Mac since it's not really profitable? Nintendo has a poor gaming device and yet they are getting huge amount of profits from their own games which proves that the platform is really important. Mac has no such thing.

1.Sort of - sure you can build a basic gaming PC for less than a Mac but I don't think that matters much when the most popular GPU is the XX60 series which is their mid range.
2. Not that poor - the M2 is arguably pretty close to the PS4 which had fantastic visuals. You don't need the latest high end hardware to game, and in fact I suspect more people play on medium and high settings than on Ultra, which should be feasible on the M2 series.
3. See 5.
4. Such as?
5. Many game devs are somewhat giving up the Mac which is very annoying and I think Apple does need to really worry about this because when Diablo IV, isn't on Mac, from Blizzard, a traditional AAA game publisher that made sure its games were always on the Mac, something is going wrong.
6. Same as 3 and 5
7. No more difficult than Intel Macs

4. Not really. There are quite a lot of gaming related technology that Apple or Mac does not have. This is something that you can not ignore.

5. Porting games does NOT mean it will be better.

6. They should acquire 1st party games just for Mac platform.

7. In reality, it's not. All PC/Console games are PC based and therefore, Mac is just difficult to work with.

4. Such as (specific detailed examples only).
5. Huh? How does having a bunch more game ports on Mac not improve the state of Mac gaming?
6. Agree - I think they should have gone after Acti-Bliz
7. Switch and PS5 are not PC based as neither runs DirectX while the Xbox runs exclusively DirectX

 

[Boil]

Apple needs to buy Rockstar and have GTA6 as an exclusive release for the Vision Pro headset...! ;^p

 

[sunny5]

1.Sort of - sure you can build a basic gaming PC for less than a Mac but I don't think that matters much when the most popular GPU is the XX60 series which is their mid range.
2. Not that poor - the M2 is arguably pretty close to the PS4 which had fantastic visuals. You don't need the latest high end hardware to game, and in fact I suspect more people play on medium and high settings than on Ultra, which should be feasible on the M2 series.
3. See 5.
4. Such as?
5. Many game devs are somewhat giving up the Mac which is very annoying and I think Apple does need to really worry about this because when Diablo IV, isn't on Mac, from Blizzard, a traditional AAA game publisher that made sure its games were always on the Mac, something is going wrong.
6. Same as 3 and 5
7. No more difficult than Intel Macs


4. Such as (specific detailed examples only).
5. Huh? How does having a bunch more game ports on Mac not improve the state of Mac gaming?
6. Agree - I think they should have gone after Acti-Bliz
7. Switch and PS5 are not PC based as neither runs DirectX while the Xbox runs exclusively DirectX

1. M1 Max and Ultra are barely close to mobile and desktop version of RTX 3060 and they are expensive. Beside, players can get way better performance in low price from PC. If you have money for MBA, then you probably can get a laptop with way better performance than MBP less than $2000 or even $1000.
2. Mac is not a console and comparing to PC is more proper. As I mentioned above, M1,2 are not even close to RTX 3060. M1 Max is barely close to it.
3. Limited amount of game players = no profits
4. DirectStorage, Ray tracing, DLSS, overclocking, and more.
5. Like I said, the platform itself is extremely hostile to gaming. Intel Mac era is a great example. Quite a lot of games supported Mac but didnt really improve the situation. Beside, is there any other Apple Silicon based platform other than Mac app stores? Quite a lot of people hate to pay fees on App Store and you need to keep updating for many macOS every year which is another huge problem.
7. Both Switch and PS5 develop games from PC. What else then?

 

[Xiao_Xi]

I'm interested to see how they stop end-users from using it, or if they even want to. In the demo it looks like the only thing you need is the .exe.

If most games work like the one Apple used in the demo, most gamers won't bother playing with the translator layer and will wait for the port.

Bring your game to Mac, Part 1: Make a game plan - WWDC23 - Videos - Apple Developer

Bring modern, high-end games to Mac and iPad with the powerful features of Metal and Apple silicon. Discover the game porting toolkit and...

developer.apple.com

 

[galad]

4. DirectStorage, Ray tracing, DLSS, overclocking, and more.

Metal has got a way to access storage directly too, ray tracing (even if the hardware doesn't support it, the API is ready and working, with lower performance than using a dedicated raytracing hardware), and DLSS (metalfx). Overclocking doesn't sound like a 3d graphic API. What's more is supposed to be missing?

 

[diamond.g]

If most games work like the one Apple used in the demo, most gamers won't bother playing with the translator layer and will wait for the port.
View attachment 2213912

Bring your game to Mac, Part 1: Make a game plan - WWDC23 - Videos - Apple Developer

Bring modern, high-end games to Mac and iPad with the powerful features of Metal and Apple silicon. Discover the game porting toolkit and...

developer.apple.com

That isn't horribad performance, just meh performance for the hardware...

 

[leman]

2. Not that poor - the M2 is arguably pretty close to the PS4 which had fantastic visuals.

M2 is two times faster than the PS4.

As to the rest of sunny5 nonsense, why even comment? They are known for cherry picking absurd examples and arguments.

 

[leman]

4. DirectStorage, Ray tracing, DLSS, overclocking, and more.

Apple has all these things and more. Except of course overclocking which nobody except a very small community cares about.

 

[bcortens]

1. M1 Max and Ultra are barely close to mobile and desktop version of RTX 3060 and they are expensive. Beside, players can get way better performance in low price from PC. If you have money for MBA, then you probably can get a laptop with way better performance than MBP less than $2000 or even $1000.
2. Mac is not a console and comparing to PC is more proper. As I mentioned above, M1,2 are not even close to RTX 3060. M1 Max is barely close to it.
3. Limited amount of game players = no profits
4. DirectStorage, Ray tracing, DLSS, overclocking, and more.
5. Like I said, the platform itself is extremely hostile to gaming. Intel Mac era is a great example. Quite a lot of games supported Mac but didnt really improve the situation. Beside, is there any other Apple Silicon based platform other than Mac app stores? Quite a lot of people hate to pay fees on App Store and you need to keep updating for many macOS every year which is another huge problem.
7. Both Switch and PS5 develop games from PC. What else then?

1. No you can't I've priced out PCs a few times over this last year and you cannot get a laptop with "way better performance" than an MBP for less than $2000... for less money than an MBP yes, but not for less than $2000 (never mind $1000). Why is M1 Max being comparable to the mobile version of the RTX 3060 a bad thing? That sounds like fantastic news for game performance!
2. Mea culpa, I should have phrased my XX60 series better, I was thinking of the wildly popular 1060 and 1060 Ti. Entry level discrete mobile GPU performance is about what I would expect from an M1 or M2 and that is what we get. Easily sufficient for great AAA gaming performance.
3. There are literally millions of potential players - no players -> no game ports -> no profits is a self fulfilling prophecy
4. As others have mentioned, other than overclocking the actual features mentioned are available in Metal
5. Intel Mac era was not an era in which Mac games were well supported. Blizzard actively stopped supporting the Mac well before the Apple Silicon era, and most of the premier AAA games did not come to Mac. The state of Mac gaming support from 3rd parties has not substantially changed from Intel to Apple Silicon transition. Also, what are you talking about? Steam is available on Apple Silicon, I just ran the epic games store to check that it works too... You can also sell apps right from your website on the Mac...
7. What? They develop the games for PS5 and Switch using a PC but that doesn't mean at all that they have anything in common architecturally with a PC, The PS5 uses its own proprietary graphics API not available on PC... The Switch for example is also an ARM based platform.

 

[Xiao_Xi]

Or is there confusion with the Crossover DirectX 12 support that was announced a few days ago?

No, the new Xcode includes a tool for evaluating performance of DX12 games.

Are you sure?

Bring your game to Mac, Part 1: Make a game plan - WWDC23 - Videos - Apple Developer

Bring modern, high-end games to Mac and iPad with the powerful features of Metal and Apple silicon. Discover the game porting toolkit and...

developer.apple.com

From one of Apple's repositories on Github:

homebrew-apple/Formula/game-porting-toolkit-compiler.rb at main · apple/homebrew-apple

Contribute to apple/homebrew-apple development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Update: Mystery solved. Apple uses CrossOver source code.

Wine comes to macOS: Apple’s Game Porting Toolkit powered by CrossOver source code | CodeWeavers Blog

By Meredith Johnson | We are ecstatic that Apple chose to use CrossOver’s source code as their emulation solution for the Game Porting Toolkit.

www.codeweavers.com

 

[jmho]

I'm guessing denuvo and all the other anti-cheat stuff will probably prevent random people using this on random PC games.

I wonder how much Apple are paying Crossover for this tech.

 

[Numa_Numa_eh]

I'm guessing denuvo and all the other anti-cheat stuff will probably prevent random people using this on random PC games.

I wonder how much Apple are paying Crossover for this tech.

Nothing. There’s a blog post on codeweavers site. Wine is open source. Apple also has a 20k patch file for dx12.