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Apple built a DirectX 12 translation layer for Apple Silicon

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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,520
19,671
Numa_Numa_eh said:
Nothing. There’s a blog post on codeweavers site. Wine is open source. Apple also has a 20k patch file for dx12.
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Do I see it correctly that they included the patch into the homebrew formula?? Talk about crazy…
 
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jmho

macrumors 6502a
Jun 11, 2021
502
996
Numa_Numa_eh said:
On a tangential note, it’s super disappointing to see some of the negative takes from more prominent Mac bloggers/podcasters regarding yesterdays gaming announcements.
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Yeah. Although I do think Apple need to shoulder a bit of blame. They're the company that cried "gaming!" every year for the past 10 years or so, so I'm not surprised that laypeople can't see that this year's push is actually a fair bit stronger than usual.
 
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Numa_Numa_eh

Suspended
Jun 1, 2023
87
105
jmho said:
Yeah. Although I do think Apple need to shoulder a bit of blame. They're the company that cried "gaming!" every year for the past 10 years or so, so I'm not surprised that laypeople can't see that this year's push is actually a fair bit stronger than usual.
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Did they cry “gaming” for the Mac every year? I watch the keynote most years and don’t recall much mention of Mac gaming. A bit for iOS for sure, but this focus on higher end gaming for the Mac seems quite new since Apple Silicon.
 
J

jmho

macrumors 6502a
Jun 11, 2021
502
996
Numa_Numa_eh said:
Did they cry “gaming” for the Mac every year? I watch the keynote most years and don’t recall much mention of Mac gaming. A bit for iOS for sure, but this focus on higher end gaming for the Mac seems quite new since Apple Silicon.
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I'd say that ever since Metal came out in 2014 Apple have been slowly building up their gaming technology year after year, and every single WWDC has had a whole bunch of cool new gaming and graphics features.

It was obvious that they were building up a gaming platform, just incredibly slowly.

I'm not sure if they were pushing it super hard to consumers in the keynote though. Although they definitely did last year with Resident Evil and No Man's Sky.
 
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dmccloud

dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,142
1,899
Anchorage, AK
Numa_Numa_eh said:
Did they cry “gaming” for the Mac every year? I watch the keynote most years and don’t recall much mention of Mac gaming. A bit for iOS for sure, but this focus on higher end gaming for the Mac seems quite new since Apple Silicon.
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Going all the way back to 2020 when Apple Silicon was first announced gaming played a role in the keynotes. Back then it was Tomb Raider they were showing. I feel that this year's WWDC marks a big shift in how Apple makes its OS and hardware available to game developers, which can only help expand the audience of potential buyers.
 
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sunny5

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2021
1,837
1,706
bcortens said:
1. No you can't I've priced out PCs a few times over this last year and you cannot get a laptop with "way better performance" than an MBP for less than $2000... for less money than an MBP yes, but not for less than $2000 (never mind $1000). Why is M1 Max being comparable to the mobile version of the RTX 3060 a bad thing? That sounds like fantastic news for game performance!
2. Mea culpa, I should have phrased my XX60 series better, I was thinking of the wildly popular 1060 and 1060 Ti. Entry level discrete mobile GPU performance is about what I would expect from an M1 or M2 and that is what we get. Easily sufficient for great AAA gaming performance.
3. There are literally millions of potential players - no players -> no game ports -> no profits is a self fulfilling prophecy
4. As others have mentioned, other than overclocking the actual features mentioned are available in Metal
5. Intel Mac era was not an era in which Mac games were well supported. Blizzard actively stopped supporting the Mac well before the Apple Silicon era, and most of the premier AAA games did not come to Mac. The state of Mac gaming support from 3rd parties has not substantially changed from Intel to Apple Silicon transition. Also, what are you talking about? Steam is available on Apple Silicon, I just ran the epic games store to check that it works too... You can also sell apps right from your website on the Mac...
7. What? They develop the games for PS5 and Switch using a PC but that doesn't mean at all that they have anything in common architecturally with a PC, The PS5 uses its own proprietary graphics API not available on PC... The Switch for example is also an ARM based platform.
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1. Fully upgraded M1 Max is not even close to mobile RTX 3070TI so you know how much you need to spend less.
2. Like I said, Mac is not console which is not built just for gaming.
3. And still, that's only first digit percent.
4. Do you really think they are as equal as what PC has? Not really. If so, how come Mac is never known for gaming?
5. Apple Silicon era is worse than Intel Mac era so I doubt what you are saying. Beside, you can still play PC games via bootcamp.
7. So? They are still developed with PC, not Mac. You clerkly dont understand how developing works. Beside, they all using either AMD or Nvidia GPU.
 
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S

senttoschool

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Nov 2, 2017
2,626
5,482
galad said:
They could have waited a few hours for the WWDC talk about it, before making a lot of unverified and wrong claims.
Youtubers gotta get those views eh.

https://developer.apple.com/wwdc23/10123 will be available in ten minutes.
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leman said:
Open sourced? Where? Do you have a link?
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It turns out that Apple is not using CrossOver. Although Apple does contribute to Wine codebase, Apple's DX12 translation is different from Codeweaver's. In fact, someone has already made a wrapper around this so you can play DX12 games on Apple Silicon.

Wrapper to play DX12 games on Apple Silicon: https://github.com/IsaacMarovitz/Whisky/releases/tag/pre-0.2.0

Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36222266
 
MrGunny94

MrGunny94

macrumors 65816
Dec 3, 2016
1,148
675
Malaga, Spain
I have tried it! Tried Diablo IV, GTA and Witcher 3! Most of these can either be played at locked 30@ or 40@, I still recommend people to hook up to an external gaming monitor due to the terrible response time from the internal laptop displays from Apple.

Here's some quick videos from the community:

Diablo IV on M2 Max using macOS Sonoma and game porting toolkit
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City - The Definitive Edition (DX12) running through the Game Porting Toolkit on my 14" MBP
Cyberpunk on M2 Max w/Game Porting Toolkit
Hogwarts Legacy on M2 Max
AppleGamingWiki Discord Users Posting their DX12 Testes - Credit djinn - Spiderman M2 Max ~30FPS -

But these are great news! These are just initial results via a translation layer that uses the Crossover code!

Hopefully with future M3 chips they can add more rasterising performance and hardware based raytrace.
 
Z

Zest28

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2022
2,581
3,933
galad said:
For example? What is Metal missing?
And what does it means that PC/Console games are PC based? Getting a game to run on a PS5 or a Switch is no easier than getting it working on macOS.
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Metal is a pain in the ass, that is what is missing. If a developer wants to release their game to Mac, they don't even do it themselves but outsource it to a company that specialises in Mac ports.

PC has the advantage that consoles games can be ported super easy. It doesn't take alot of work. And that even gets screwed up.

The ToolKit Apple announced might address this issue, if it makes the process of porting consoles games to Mac easier. But we have to wait and see.
 
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Z

Zest28

macrumors 68030
Jul 11, 2022
2,581
3,933
jmho said:
How is porting a PS5 game to the PC easier than porting a PS5 game to the Mac?
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Games are optimized for the Xbox Series X too which uses the same API's and hardware as PC's do. Microsoft ensured that PC and consoles are comparable with each other to ensure that game developer don't have to waste much time porting.
 
diamond.g

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,438
2,663
OBX
jmho said:
How is porting a PS5 game to the PC easier than porting a PS5 game to the Mac?
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Someone could argue they use the same CPU/GPU arch (lets ignore the geometry engine and the special IO stuff for now).
 
G

galad

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2022
610
492
Zest28 said:
Games are optimized for the Xbox Series X too which uses the same API's and hardware as PC's do. Microsoft ensured that PC and consoles are comparable with each other to ensure that game developer don't have to waste much time porting.
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The Xbox is not the only console out there, the original message talked about the PS5.
 
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