Apple CAN’T do AAA gaming [Merged Megathread]

[mi7chy]

Went a bit further... Still doing better than orionquest.
How can this possibly be mi7chy? Please tell me what I'm doing wrong...

Where did you do wrong? You paid what $2700+ in 2019 for lower SotTR frame rate compared to orionquest's system with $339 i4770k + $339 GTX970 from 2013/2014.

82fps at oddball sub-4K resolution isn't anything to brag about anyway. The money he's saved he can get <=$1200 laptop +$900 48" 4K LG C1 OLED + vacation money that does 142fps at proper 4K 3840x2160 medium with fxaa (high). Only thing is he can't cook eggs on the go like yours.

 

[JordanNZ]

Where did you do wrong? You paid what $2700+ in 2019 for lower SotTR frame rate compared to orionquest's system with $339 i4770k + $339 GTX970 from 2013/2014.

82fps at oddball sub-4K resolution isn't anything to brag about anyway. The money he's saved he can get <=$1200 laptop +$900 48" 4K LG C1 OLED + vacation money that does 142fps at proper 4K 3840x2160 medium with fxaa (high). Only thing is he can't cook eggs on the go like yours.

View attachment 2026694

No, what am I doing wrong with my Arkham City benchmarking? You know, accidentally used lower settings and resolution or something? Tell me what mistakes I made with the benchmark.

Because the results don’t seem to be slower. And you insist they must be. So one of us has made a mistake. And it can’t possibly be you.

 

[mi7chy]

You thought people didn't notice.

 

[JordanNZ]

You thought people didn't notice.

View attachment 2026698

Notice what?

Still waiting for a reply to my Arkham City posts.

 

[Irishman]

Where did you do wrong? You paid what $2700+ in 2019 for lower SotTR frame rate compared to orionquest's system with $339 i4770k + $339 GTX970 from 2013/2014.

82fps at oddball sub-4K resolution isn't anything to brag about anyway. The money he's saved he can get <=$1200 laptop +$900 48" 4K LG C1 OLED + vacation money that does 142fps at proper 4K 3840x2160 medium with fxaa (high). Only thing is he can't cook eggs on the go like yours.

View attachment 2026694

Who says that his goal is to brag about performance metrics on these two (or any other) games?

Do you honestly believe that bragging rights are the only worthy justification for comparing them? How tiny you must think his ego must be?!?

You’re projecting again. AND moving the goalposts to include frames-per-dollar! AND claiming against all the evidence that modern M1 Macs run hot enough to reduce performance (they don’t actually).

That’s what you did wrong, buddy.

 

[Romain_H]

Only thing is he can't cook eggs on the go like yours.

Oh, this bugs you? The fact that other than Intels ASi performs while running cool?

You could have gone with „Intel‘s still faster“ or “No games on Mac“ but you went with single one thing thing that‘s undisputed. Epic

 

[MisterK]

As a publisher, it doesn't make sense to release games on the Mac. The market is too small, and seemingly disinterested in gaming. What little does come over, never sells in big quantities. If it was simple to port games from their Windows versions, Publishers would do that. But instead, it's simple to port games from iOS and, because of the way the iOS App Store pricing and structure works, the incentives there are for hyper-casual free-to-play games with a lot of micro transactions.

AAA Gaming is a big business and Apple's Mac hardware is capable. The incentives do not work out for AAA studios or indie devs who aren't interested in micro transactions. I think the only hope that Apple has with non-mobile, non-hyper-casual gamers, is if they open their own games studio and do things 1st party (like Nintendo). Maybe this makes more sense as the next content move after AppleTV+. The Apple Arcade situation is grim so that's not it.

 

[Irishman]

As a publisher, it doesn't make sense to release games on the Mac. The market is too small, and seemingly disinterested in gaming. What little does come over, never sells in big quantities. If it was simple to port games from their Windows versions, Publishers would do that. But instead, it's simple to port games from iOS and, because of the way the iOS App Store pricing and structure works, the incentives there are for hyper-casual free-to-play games with a lot of micro transactions.

AAA Gaming is a big business and Apple's Mac hardware is capable. The incentives do not work out for AAA studios or indie devs who aren't interested in micro transactions. I think the only hope that Apple has with non-mobile, non-hyper-casual gamers, is if they open their own games studio and do things 1st party (like Nintendo). Maybe this makes more sense as the next content move after AppleTV+. The Apple Arcade situation is grim so that's not it.

It certainly does make sense for those devs who release AAA, AA, and indie games for Mac. Sadly, it seems like you're painting with too broad a brush to be helpful.

What were the last AAA Mac games that you've played and about when did you play them?

 

[diamond.g]

It certainly does make sense for those devs who release AAA, AA, and indie games for Mac. Sadly, it seems like you're painting with too broad a brush to be helpful.

What were the last AAA Mac games that you've played and about when did you play them?

The somewhat depressing thing is iOS is getting these AAA retellings (not quite a port nor an original game) like The Division Resurgence, Call of Duty WarZone, or Apex Legends Mobile. Where instead of bringing those games to macOS (the original versions) they are going to make iOS versions, then turn around and not bother to make those version work on AS Macs.

 

[Homy]

As a publisher, it doesn't make sense to release games on the Mac. The market is too small, and seemingly disinterested in gaming. What little does come over, never sells in big quantities. If it was simple to port games from their Windows versions, Publishers would do that. But instead, it's simple to port games from iOS and, because of the way the iOS App Store pricing and structure works, the incentives there are for hyper-casual free-to-play games with a lot of micro transactions.

AAA Gaming is a big business and Apple's Mac hardware is capable. The incentives do not work out for AAA studios or indie devs who aren't interested in micro transactions. I think the only hope that Apple has with non-mobile, non-hyper-casual gamers, is if they open their own games studio and do things 1st party (like Nintendo). Maybe this makes more sense as the next content move after AppleTV+. The Apple Arcade situation is grim so that's not it.

Yet we have all these famous franchises like Alien Isolation, Bioshock trilogy, Borderlands trilogy, Desperados 3, Deus Ex MKD, Dying Light, Metro trilogy, Tomb Raider trilogy, Total War Saga: Troy, Total War: Warhammer 3, Total War: Warhammer 40K and XCOM 2 Collection being ported? It’s especially interesting when you look at those trilogies. If number 1 or 2 wasn’t successful why they kept porting number 3?

Later this year we also get Resident Evil Village, No Man's Sky and Grid Legends. No matter what the reasons are or whether the titles are old or new they keep coming and have been for decades. Now that Metal 3 is up-to-date and the HW is more than capable as you say it can't get worse but better.

 

[Irishman]

The somewhat depressing thing is iOS is getting these AAA retellings (not quite a port nor an original game) like The Division Resurgence, Call of Duty WarZone, or Apex Legends Mobile. Where instead of bringing those games to macOS (the original versions) they are going to make iOS versions, then turn around and not bother to make those version work on AS Macs.

Do you recall where you learned that specific news?

 

[diamond.g]

Do you recall where you learned that specific news?

Tom Clancy’s The Division goes mobile with its next game

Tom Clancy’s The Division Resurgence, an upcoming free-to-play mobile game, was announced on July 5, 2022, and it will launch soon on iOS and Android devices. Ubisoft is now taking registrations for a closed alpha of the game.

www.polygon.com

For Warzone, I am reasonably certain they aren't going to do a macOS version since thy seem to ban folks for playing the iOS version on macOS. I don't see Apex Legends for macOS either, so 🤷🏽‍♂️.

 

[Irishman]

Tom Clancy’s The Division goes mobile with its next game

Tom Clancy’s The Division Resurgence, an upcoming free-to-play mobile game, was announced on July 5, 2022, and it will launch soon on iOS and Android devices. Ubisoft is now taking registrations for a closed alpha of the game.

www.polygon.com

For Warzone, I am reasonably certain they aren't going to do a macOS version since thy seem to ban folks for playing the iOS version on macOS. I don't see Apex Legends for macOS either, so 🤷🏽‍♂️.

I'm wondering if that's an anti-cheat issue. I do recall hearing about those bans being of the lifetime variety. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I'm thinking that's a bug rather than a feature. I don't think that it sas anything concrete about their attitudes towards M1 Macs.

 

[Colstan]

Later this year we also get Resident Evil Village, No Man's Sky and Grid Legends. No matter what the reasons are or whether the titles are old or new they keep coming and have been for decades. Now that Metal 3 is up-to-date and the HW is more than capable as you say it can't get worse but better.

As you point out, this isn't an "all or nothing" situation. For our friend, the Mac will always be inferior to PC because it doesn't have the highest FPS, the brightest LEDs, feature anime-themed cases, or come with a built-in blender and buffet hutch.

Us Mac gamers don't need access to every PC game, as the straw man argument would have it, but simply access to enough games. As the Mac gains marketshare, some publishers may notice, and want to make a play for that market. The Mac is a much smaller pond than PC gaming, but it also has fewer competitors. An ambitious studio could make serious bank by taking a large share of a underserved market, particularly now that Apple Silicon makes for quality, capable gaming machines. I'd rather have fewer developers that take the time to make a quality Mac version, over a sack full of sloppy ports.

However, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how many benchmarks are posted about how amazing PCs are. Soon, x86 machines won't run macOS, which makes it DOA at MacRumors. I'd rather live in the desert with Linux, instead of the swamp with Windows. Thankfully, I'm not required to do either, because I can enjoy my Mac. I also don't need to go to Windows/PC sites and brag about how much better the Mac is to make myself feel superior about my preferred platform, either.

 

[JordanNZ]

Who says that his goal is to brag about performance metrics on these two (or any other) games?

Do you honestly believe that bragging rights are the only worthy justification for comparing them? How tiny you must think his ego must be?!?

You’re projecting again. AND moving the goalposts to include frames-per-dollar! AND claiming against all the evidence that modern M1 Macs run hot enough to reduce performance (they don’t actually).

That’s what you did wrong, buddy.

The funny thing is, this is my work machine. I use it for remote audio recording/mixing. Which it is absolutely excellent at. Not to mention there isn't a windows machine that can run UA's Luna software... Because it's not available for windows.

I happen to love gaming on the side... And even my 2019 machine is fine for firing up a quick game. Usually Wow, but occasionally Tomb Raider etc...

Even if Luna was available for Windows I wouldn't be lugging a gaming machine around hotels...

I'm happy with my 2019 MacBook... The new Apple Silicon machines must be incredible... No matter what mi7chy says.

 

[mi7chy]

Why make assumptions? Luna runs better on x64 hackintosh than AS which "Well it crashes really often".

https://uadforum.com/community/index.php?threads/longterm-review-on-m1-max.58329/

 

[Homy]

My 5500 (4gb) intel MacBook Pro, 1200p, medium settings. On macOS. View attachment 2026318

I must say that Batman: Arkham City despite being old is a very good port. I ran the benchmark with the same and other settings on my base MBP 14” M1 Pro 8c/14c/16 GB. It’s a bit faster than your 5500m in Geekbench Metal and GFX Bench. On Monterey 12.0 (haven’t updated to later versions) I get 36 280 in the latest GB and 147 fps in GFX Bench Aztech High offscreen 1440p and 65 at 4K. Your 5500M gets around 30 000 in GB and 95/42 in GFX Bench. So your 5500m can be 17-35% slower.

First I have to say we don’t see the shadow quality in those PC settings so not sure if they chose High like we did on Mac. You have to scroll down on pc to see that. The second important number nobody has mentioned is the lowest frame rates. That’s what makes the game feel choppy or smooth. High frame rates of several 100 are useless unless you’re E-sports player and want the latest Asus ROG 500Hz monitor. They also ran the test at 1080p while we at 1200p.

Another thing not mentioned especially in the discussion about AA is that the resolution is also an important factor when comparing the AA and the jagged edges, especially on small details. A 4K monitor downscales perfectly to 1080p, 2160/2. 1200p on MBP is not a perfectly scaled resolution. The native res on MBP 16” 2019 is 3072 x 1920. 1920/1200=1.6 is not perfect. My 14” has 3024 x 1964. That gives 1.64 in pixel ratio. I don’t know how much that may impact the AA when you zoom in screenshots so much but I think it’s worth mentioning.

At 1200p medium I got 83/178/124. So yours is 10-15% faster.

For comparison

- 3060 mobile 6 GB VRAM 70W, 1080p medium, shadow quality ?: 101/464/288

- MBP Radeon Pro 5500m 4GB VRAM 50W?, 1200p medium, shadow quality high: 92/210/137

- M1 Pro 14c 11 GB VRAM 15W, 1200p medium, shadow quality high: 83/178/124

- GTX 970 desktop 4 GB VRAM 145W?, 1080p medium, shadow quality ?: 45/136/84

It’s amazing to see that my M1 Pro’s minimum fps is only 17.8% lower than 3060 M in a non-native game while using 4.67x less power. I also ran it at 1200p Extreme with Tessellation and MSAA8x and still got minimum 60 fps.

 

[JordanNZ]

Why make assumptions? Luna runs better on x64 hackintosh than AS which "Well it crashes really often".

https://uadforum.com/community/index.php?threads/longterm-review-on-m1-max.58329/

I’m not using an Apple Silicon machine.

And I most certainly wouldn’t want to deal with a hackintosh for any work machine. Especially a laptop.

 

[mi7chy]

I also ran it at 1200p Extreme with Tessellation and MSAA8x and still got minimum 60 fps.

🤣That's fake MSAA (8X) with stair case jaggies. Uncertain what else is fake.😂

Go watch Hardware Unboxed to learn fundamentals.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...aming-merged-megathread.2321333/post-31232475

Real deal MSAA (8X) for comparison

 

[Homy]

Here's the result with FXAA High enabled (I lost 2fps.... Yes.. 2).. Jaggies gone.
Now what?

You see, that’s the difference between real gamers with OCD and us Mac noobs. They spend thousands of dollars on their gaming PC just to entertain themselves with zooming in with electron microscope on the furthest jagged edges of Gotham city. We on the other hand enjoy a gameplay with good story and characters and cool action. I mean who cares about jagged edges on a remote rooftop you can’t even see unless you lick the screen when you’re busy kicking ass as a superhero. Imagine Batman going around Gotham suddenly stopping in the middle of the action to complain about anti-aliasing instead of saving the city. Lmao 😄

 

[Homy]

And here's the same MacBook with SOTTR.
My 2019 MacBook demolishes your gaming pc with Arkham City, yet fares terribly in SOTTR.

It's almost..... And hear me out here.. Almost as if the quality of the port matters when making comparisons.

View attachment 2026324 View attachment 2026324

Interesting! Here my M1 Pro 14c did a little better. I wonder if it’s because of 11 GB VRAM. Does AMD FidelityFX CAS have any effect since you have AMD GPU and can activate the option?

 

[Homy]

Went a bit further... Still doing better than orionquest.
How can this possibly be mi7chy? Please tell me what I'm doing wrong...

View attachment 2026680 View attachment 2026678 View attachment 2026679

I went all in and maxed out the res to more than 4K with the extreme settings I posted before. Yes it's possible even on my little MBP 14" to choose 3600 x 2338 internally which is 122 400 px more than 4K 3840 x 2160.

For comparison

- 3060 mobile 6 GB VRAM 70W, 2160p medium, FXAA high, shadow quality ?: 66/177/142

- MBP Radeon Pro 5500m 4GB VRAM 50W?, 1920p medium, FXAA high, shadow quality high:62/103/82

- M1 Pro 14c 11 GB VRAM 15W, 2338p medium, FXAA high, shadow quality high: 60/110/84

- M1 Pro 14c 11 GB VRAM 15W, 2338p Extreme, MSAA 8x, Tessellation, shadow quality high: 45/92/63

Very impressive compared to 3060 mobile! The important lows are only 6 frames apart in a non-native game while using 4.67x less power.

 

[mi7chy]

Hardware Unboxed does a review of M2. Get the tissue box ready.

 

[JordanNZ]

Hardware Unboxed does a review of M2. Get the tissue box ready.

You're insufferable.

Still waiting for you to tell me what I did wrong with the Arkham City benchmarks...
Come on mi7chy.. I'm waiting.

 

[JordanNZ]

I must say that Batman: Arkham City despite being old is a very good port. I ran the benchmark with the same and other settings on my base MBP 14” M1 Pro 8c/14c/16 GB. It’s a bit faster than your 5500m in Geekbench Metal and GFX Bench. On Monterey 12.0 (haven’t updated to later versions) I get 36 280 in the latest GB and 147 fps in GFX Bench Aztech High offscreen 1440p and 65 at 4K. Your 5500M gets around 30 000 in GB and 95/42 in GFX Bench. So your 5500m can be 17-35% slower.

It used to trail the windows version quite badly with performance. When Feral updated it with the metal backend, it leapt past the Windows version. At least on AMD hardware.