Apple Car's Self-Driving System Reportedly Advances, Could Use Sensors From iPhone LiDAR Supplier

[pugxiwawa]

Hundred miles round trip and you better make sure you’re topped off before you start, or range anxiety starts to kick in, and that‘s under ideal conditions. Otherwise your‘re parked for who knows how long at a hopefully functioning recharging station.

Pepole are replacing ICE vehicles with EV’s because it’s “the cool thing to do”. Wait to see how many of them purchase a second one when it’s time to replace the battery pack. 100+ years and EV’s still haven’t caught on. Only by the government giving tax breaks can they get people to buy them now. What happens when those programs come to an end?

California has trouble keeping the lights on as it is. What happens when everyone has an EV? You need nuclear power to make this a reality. Those plants aren’t even being planned, let alone built. Windmills and solar aren’t going to cut it.

What happens when people start to see the environment impact of cobalt mines? People freak out about clean, air conditioned iPhone factories, can’t wait for them to see actual children working at a cobalt mine in Africa or South America. Not to mention all the other rare earth minerals needed.

In the last 3 weekends alone I’ve driven ~ 3,000 miles. Can’t imagine how much time I would have wasted at a charging station.

You enjoy your EV, I won’t stop you from buying one. I’ll continue to drive ICE vehicles. Some day in the not so distant future you’ll say Razorpit you were right, and we’ll have a beer together and laugh the whole thing off.

Plenty of superchargers. Who has range anxiety? Most of people charge at home and have zero issues. Who wants to visit gas station when I can wake up everyday with a car fully charged and ready to go? Plenty people road trip in EVs now that you literally just top off 20 minutes every 2-3 hours when talking food and bathroom break before going to next destination. Have you ever driven in a Tesla using its built-in navigation?

You can keep enjoying ICE cars but those are dying breed. EVs are not just a cool thing to do. The evolution is here and I’m glad to watch ICE cars going into sunset. One by one your favorite brand and model will cease to be manufactured because there won’t be enough demands. Don’t believe me? Look at latest sales trend. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, GM, Ford…etc are down double digits. And just look at all the upcoming ICE cars, do you see any significant changes in the models? No, because manufactures have started diverting resources away from ICE into EV in order not to go bankrupt in a few years. Ask anyone who’s bought EV, majority of them will not go back to ICE car. Look at latest survey, over 35% Americans will be considering EV as their next car, and that number will continue to go up. That is the undeniable trend whether you like it or not.

 

[257Loner]

Apple became a $3 trillion company in January 2022 through computer hardware, software, and services alone. Why do they need a piece of the car industry pie? Perhaps the Apple Car is only meant to shuttle employees to and from Apple Park? Or perhaps Apple is designing the Apple Car to stimulate the car industry with new ideas in order to accelerate the transportation industry towards a future they want?

 

[ThisBougieLife]

An Apple-branded car is interesting to me. "Self-driving", however...

It's appealing if it actually worked as well it does in theory. But the more I hear about self-driving crashes and "phantom braking" on the middle of a bridge, the more I think self-driving is never going to be mainstream, or even safe enough for enthusiasts to adopt.

 

[pugxiwawa]

I’ll buy one right now if you can show me that I can tow my 5th wheel for 350+ miles with an EV.

There’s Ford F150 Lighting and Rivian truck for towing with plenty of distance. But no one needs to build a car to fit a scenario where you are holding 5+ hours without going to bathroom break. You keep thinking a specific scenario that doesn’t work for you so EV is somehow a fad? What’s the % of people needing a car towing 5th wheel for 350+ miles?

 

[_Spinn_]

I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

[H.E. Pennypacker]

Any trip over 50 miles? So what was I, and millions of EV drivers doing last few years commuting over 50 miles a day? How did we all make home perfectly fine?

EV has been around for over 100 years? 100 YEARS? Ok you lost me there. I got nothing.

People are replacing aging ICE cars now with EVs and using as their only vehicles. Working perfectly fine commuting and road tripping. What exactly are your particular scenarios that EVa can’t do? You have weird misconception that only ICE cars can go distances and somehow EVs can only go 15 minutes drive. Bizarre.

There’s Ford F150 Lighting and Rivian truck for towing with plenty of distance. But no one needs to build a car to fit a scenario where you are holding 5+ hours without going to bathroom break. You keep thinking a specific scenario that doesn’t work for you so EV is somehow a fad? What’s the % of people needing a car towing 5th wheel for 350+ miles?

Well if you did some research on the lighting and Rivian you’d know that they have a hard time making 100 mile range with trailers that weight 1500-2000lbs much less a 9000lb trailer. Not to mention the charge time on a fully depleted lighting is hours. I’m not looking for a scenario where I don’t need to not stop and use the bathroom, but the lifestyle quality of my trips do involve not having to stop and charge a vehicle for hours.

 

[pugxiwawa]

Well if you did some research on the lighting and Rivian you’d know that they have a hard time making 100 mile range with trailers that weight 1500-2000lbs much less a 9000lb trailer. Not to mention the charge time on a fully depleted lighting is hours. I’m not looking for a scenario where I don’t need to not stop and use the bathroom, but the lifestyle quality of my trips do involve not having to stop and charge a vehicle for hours.

it’s all about compromise. Do you want to carry around giant battery when you only need it 1% of the time once in a blue moon you are towing 9000lbs trailer and the other 99% of time just wasting energy? It really doesn’t matter. Your use case or the other person driving 3000 miles in 2 weeks. Those are edge cases. EVs don’t work for your edge cases don’t mean it’s a fade. The adoption of EV is accelerating because it fits majority of people normal day to day life. And we are at the point that EVs like Tesla are equal if not better than similar priced ICE cars. That’s why EVs are attractive now. And once people go EV they are not coming back. Hold on to your ICE dearly because those are for sure going extinct.

 

[svish]

Good to hear more about Apple car. But does not look like it will be launching any time soon.

 

[Razorpit]

Plenty of superchargers. Who has range anxiety? Most of people charge at home and have zero issues. Who wants to visit gas station when I can wake up everyday with a car fully charged and ready to go? Plenty people road trip in EVs now that you literally just top off 20 minutes every 2-3 hours when talking food and bathroom break before going to next destination. Have you ever driven in a Tesla using its built-in navigation?

You can keep enjoying ICE cars but those are dying breed. EVs are not just a cool thing to do. The evolution is here and I’m glad to watch ICE cars going into sunset. One by one your favorite brand and model will cease to be manufactured because there won’t be enough demands. Don’t believe me? Look at latest sales trend. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, GM, Ford…etc are down double digits. And just look at all the upcoming ICE cars, do you see any significant changes in the models? No, because manufactures have started diverting resources away from ICE into EV in order not to go bankrupt in a few years. Ask anyone who’s bought EV, majority of them will not go back to ICE car. Look at latest survey, over 35% Americans will be considering EV as their next car, and that number will continue to go up. That is the undeniable trend whether you like it or not.

I get the feeling You have a sense of glee thinking the ~ 290 million ICE‘s are going to go away overnight. That’s an odd response. With all the artificial money injected from the governments there is a lot of virtue signaling from manufacturers at the moment. I’m concerned about my beloved VW going the way of the dodo after their decision to go all EV, but as Forrest says, “Stupid is as stupid does.”

 

[lysingur]

Let me clarify. The push for Full EV transition will fade. People who want a vehicle with very limited application will still purchase as they want the latest tech. EVs are far from sustainable and are not practical for most drivers. As more drivers purchase EVs and see how limited the are in functionality those customers will not be customers the EV market will retain.

EV range is only going to get longer and charging stations are going to grow in numbers.

EVs are not sustainable just like trucks and semis are not sustainable and both are selling like hotcakes. Most people who buy cars don't really care about sustainability. Those who really do don't buy cars. They take public transport and eat tofu.

The future of EVs is autonomous driving. Imagine the freedom it gives to people who don't need to have to step on gas and steer the wheel every time they step into a car. EV won't fade. If something has to fade, then it'll be the combustion engine.

 

[Razorpit]

EV range is only going to get longer and charging stations are going to grow in numbers.

EVs are not sustainable just like trucks and semis are not sustainable and both are selling like hotcakes. Most people who buy cars don't really care about sustainability. Those who really do don't buy cars. They take public transport and eat tofu.

The future of EVs is autonomous driving. Imagine the freedom it gives to people who don't need to have to step on gas and steer the wheel every time they step into a car. EV won't fade. If something has to fade, then it'll be the combustion engine.

You do realize you don’t have to have an EV to have autonomous driving? Fully autonomous driving is ~ 20-30 years away. EV’s will be a distant memory by then and we’ll have the landfills to proved it. They’ll be just past the solar panels and to the left of the windmill blades. 😄

 

[lysingur]

You do realize you don’t have to have an EV to have autonomous driving? Fully autonomous driving is ~ 20-30 years away. EV’s will be a distant memory by then and we’ll have the landfills to proved it. They’ll be just past the solar panels and to the left of the windmill blades. 😄

You actually do.

The power requirements for AV are higher, which combustion engine cars can't provide in their current form.

Once charging networks are in place, AVs can charge themselves, which completely eliminates human intervention in every step of driving. It will be like a modern train ride.

Autonomous driving is definitely not 30 years away. 20 is probable. I would venture to say less than 10, considering the rise of AI will really speed things up.

The part about being a distant memory won't age well. Brace yourself for (my) ridicule 10 years from now.

 

[Razorpit]

You actually do.

The power requirements for AV are higher, which combustion engine cars can't provide in their current form.

Once charging networks are in place, AVs can charge themselves, which completely eliminates human intervention in every step of driving. It will be like a modern train ride.

Autonomous driving is definitely not 30 years away. 20 is probable. I would venture to say less than 10, considering the rise of AI will really speed things up.

The part about being a distant memory won't age well. Brace yourself for (my) ridicule 10 years from now.

Developing a more robust power system in an ICE is relatively trivial compared to getting a functional autonomous driving system. There’s been talks of going to a 24V system for at least two decades now. The advancements of electronics has prevented the need for that. If and when autonomous systems arrive, ICE’s will have them.

I use the 20-30 year reference from a conversation with a friend of mine who happens to be a systems developer. I asked him no too long ago how far are we. At the time I was think 10-20 years. He laughed and said no way, twenty at the absolute earliest.

 

[pugxiwawa]

Developing a more robust power system in an ICE is relatively trivial compared to getting a functional autonomous driving system. There’s been talks of going to a 24V system for at least two decades now. The advancements of electronics has prevented the need for that. If and when autonomous systems arrive, ICE’s will have them.

I use the 20-30 year reference from a conversation with a friend of mine who happens to be a systems developer. I asked him no too long ago how far are we. At the time I was think 10-20 years. He laughed and said no way, twenty at the absolute earliest.

No one is going to spend resources developing autonomous driving for dying ICE cars. None. You can keep waiting but that ship has sailed. You can have head under sand but doesn’t change the fact just looking at all the car manufacturers where they are spending their money and resources. It’s all going to EV, battery and software needed to run these EVs. Show us anyone who’s actually putting money into more ICE development. There’s none. Who’s going to develop more ICE car when Europe, China and many states in US are going to ban ICE car sales in a few years?

20-30 year system engineer? All that means is you and him are out of loop and not keeping up with technology. Look at how far ChatGPT had come along in just a few years. Did you think it was possible just 1 year ago? And you believe some forms of autonomous driving on EV won’t be here in 5 years?

 

[Razorpit]

No one is going to spend resources developing autonomous driving for dying ICE cars. None. You can keep waiting but that ship has sailed. You can have head under sand but doesn’t change the fact just looking at all the car manufacturers where they are spending their money and resources. It’s all going to EV, battery and software needed to run these EVs. Show us anyone who’s actually putting money into more ICE development. There’s none. Who’s going to develop more ICE car when Europe, China and many states in US are going to ban ICE car sales in a few years?

20-30 year system engineer? All that means is you and him are out of loop and not keeping up with technology. Look at how far ChatGPT had come along in just a few years. Did you think it was possible just 1 year ago? And you believe some forms of autonomous driving on EV won’t be here in 5 years?

😂 The telemetry technology is cut and paste. You’re filling yourself if you think there’s some special mojo EV’s have.

Every year ICE vehicles get better with new technology every year. More efficient, more powerful engines, better drive trains, better interiors than any Tesla, the list goes on. You love the EV hype I get it. I like new toys as well, but when it’s time to do work I go to the tool box not the Lego bin.

 

[pugxiwawa]

😂 The telemetry technology is cut and paste. You’re filling yourself if you think there’s some special mojo EV’s have.

Every year ICE vehicles get better with new technology every year. More efficient, more powerful engines, better drive trains, better interiors than any Tesla, the list goes on. You love the EV hype I get it. I like new toys as well, but when it’s time to do work I go to the tool box not the Lego bin.

Haha what new technologies are in ICE cars? Which car manufacture are putting more resources into ICE? Look at their roadmaps for next few years. It’s all EVs, EVs, and more EVs. No one is spending any meaningful money for ICE cars. The difference this time is there’s an expiration date attached to your beloved ICE cars. So enjoy them while you can, they are on borrowed time before going extinct.

 

[East India Company]

2026.. yes of course

 

[Razorpit]

Haha what new technologies are in ICE cars? Which car manufacture are putting more resources into ICE? Look at their roadmaps for next few years. It’s all EVs, EVs, and more EVs. No one is spending any meaningful money for ICE cars. The difference this time is there’s an expiration date attached to your beloved ICE cars. So enjoy them while you can, they are on borrowed time before going extinct.

You ignore every point of every post I make. How about this, you do you and enjoy the hype. Give me a call when it’s too hot, too cold, the power is out, your battery is dead, or it’s too far, and you need a ride.

 

[nikaru]

So you don’t think the fleet of vehicles gathering data for Apple Maps could also be gathering data for the car?

It could be, but we haven't seen any evidence for that. And even if there is dedicated hardware in the existing vehicles for Apple Maps, how on earth we haven't noticed anything so far in the development. And again, I don't think that such a small fleet is able to collect sufficient data to tech the AI algorithm how to drive safely in all possible scenarios. Tesla has 4 millions vehicle on the road and has been actively collecting data for 10+ years. Apple cannot beat that especially doing it secretly. Apple is a great company, that has build some extraordinary products...but they can't do magic.

 

[macfacts]

Apple is a great company, that has build some extraordinary products...but they can't do magic.

Doesn't stop ppl from believing they can,aka RDF

 

[pugxiwawa]

You ignore every point of every post I make. How about this, you do you and enjoy the hype. Give me a call when it’s too hot, too cold, the power is out, your battery is dead, or it’s too far, and you need a ride.

Lol and you really, still believe EV is just a fad.

Legacy auto faces disaster in China with unsellable cars as pollution crunch looms

Potentially millions of petrol and diesel cars may become unsellable in world's biggest car market as China moves to new pollution standards and EV demand booms.

thedriven-io.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Razorpit]

Lol and you really, still believe EV is just a fad.

Legacy auto faces disaster in China with unsellable cars as pollution crunch looms

Potentially millions of petrol and diesel cars may become unsellable in world's biggest car market as China moves to new pollution standards and EV demand booms.

thedriven-io.cdn.ampproject.org

Yep. I do.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/23/business/ford-ev-losses/index.html

 

[pugxiwawa]

Yep. I do.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/23/business/ford-ev-losses/index.html

This article just proves my points. why do you think Ford is willing to plow billion into EV, despite additional losses, to try ramping up production? You think Ford likes to see money burned? Because alternative of not doing it is bankrupt and die. If they don’t have EV they will go extinct. It’s very simple. Show us a car manufacturer right now that is not working on EV. You won’t find one. That tells you all you need to know.

Hyundai shuts down its engine development team amid focus on electric cars

Hyundai announced that it is shutting down its internal combustion engine development team as the automaker focuses on electric cars....

electrek.co

 

[Razorpit]

This article just proves my points. why do you think Ford is willing to plow billion into EV, despite additional losses, to try ramping up production? You think Ford likes to see money burned? Because alternative of not doing it is bankrupt and die. If they don’t have EV they will go extinct. It’s very simple. Show us a car manufacturer right now that is not working on EV. You won’t find one. That tells you all you need to know.

Hyundai shuts down its engine development team amid focus on electric cars

Hyundai announced that it is shutting down its internal combustion engine development team as the automaker focuses on electric cars....

electrek.co

😂 Do you have the formal announcement from Hyundai or just this rumor and the dumpster fire of circular reporting it created? Surely Hyundai would have publicly announced this by now? Oh wait here’s something a little more current for you.

Hyundai Has No Plans To Abandon Internal Combustion Engine Development

The Korean manufacturer points the poor EV charging infrastructure in many parts of the world as the reason behind the decision.

insideevs.com

For some reason “journalists“ are all suddenly giddy to worship at the EV altar, completely abandoning critical thinking. Stop and ask yourself why? There’s somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.2 billion ICE vehicles out there. They aren’t disappearing anytime soon no matter how bad ”journalists” and governments want them to.

For the last time, I enjoy EV’s. They are fun toys. And they make some sense for people that don’t have weather, distance, or travel time constraints. Without artificial market manipulation (governmental laws) THEY WILL NEVER REPLACE ICE’s. Even with complete government enforcement (Europe) it is going to take decades before this becomes a reality. Even then, every ranking official there will publicly have an EV, but will commute in an ICE when the situation calls for it.

But don’t worry, even though EV’s will never dominate, the Chinese will keep those children in the cobalt and lithium mines happily employed for years to come.

 

[lysingur]

Developing a more robust power system in an ICE is relatively trivial compared to getting a functional autonomous driving system. There’s been talks of going to a 24V system for at least two decades now. The advancements of electronics has prevented the need for that. If and when autonomous systems arrive, ICE’s will have them.

I use the 20-30 year reference from a conversation with a friend of mine who happens to be a systems developer. I asked him no too long ago how far are we. At the time I was think 10-20 years. He laughed and said no way, twenty at the absolute earliest.

Nobody of note in the tech industry saw the rise of ChatGPT happening even a year ago. I doubt a "systems developer" knows much about the trajectory of autonomous driving.

I say 10. You say 20. We'll see who's right.