Apple Ceases to have Design Edge

[Digital Skunk]

After looking through a lot of the CES photos and much of what is on the market right now I am convinced that Apple has finally lost the design edge that it used to have 2 or 3 years ago.

The Dell offerings at CES are smooth, sweet, and I know will be Quad core with removable batteries. The Pre is fugly, but the OS is decidedly better than the iPhone. I don't know if it's easier to use and intuitive, but from what I see it's far more capable with more powerful gestures.

Sony to me has always kept up with Apple in terms of design, but now I can see them leaping ahead of Apple in terms of innovation with their Sony P netbook and 18" widescreen with Blu Ray. As well as their 11.1" laptop with dual SSD, Blu Ray, and ports.

Not that I don't like the current Macbook and Macbook Pro design, just that the PC makers are taking note, and are answering the call in ways Apple may never by offering great designs, great performance/price, great expandability, and great warranties and service.

Or has this always been the case and I was just being a blind fanboy (which I was during my first few years as a Mac user)?

 

[puffnstuff]

Or has this always been the case and I was just being a blind fanboy (which I was during my first few years as a Mac user)?

Oh I agree a 100% there use to be a time when Apple offered something called variety in their line up. Ever since their switch to until things have gone down fast. The last big hit they had was the iPhone and iPod touch 2 years ago! Since then companies have been coming out with better.

It's such a shame

 

[rdowns]

Were it not for Apple, other companies would still be offering crap designs. I still think Apple has an edge on most.

 

[dmw007]

Were it not for Apple, other companies would still be offering crap designs. I still think Apple has an edge on most.

I have to agree with rdowns - Apple still has a design edge on most companies. That being said, PC companies are getting better at building a crappy product (mostly due to the OS) that at least looks nice.

 

[brad.c]

Once the box is turned on, I'm only looking at the interface. Sorry, Apple wins.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Were it not for Apple, other companies would still be offering crap designs. I still think Apple has an edge on most.

True, but now that Apple stirred the pot somewhat, since Apple just makes pretty cases right about now, other companies are actually designing machines that have purposes in their looks, not just ultra thin and expensive for less computing.

Once the box is turned on, I'm only looking at the interface. Sorry, Apple wins.

I agree, with that said I am also looking at performance, and Apple pales in comparison to other companies. OS aside, the hardware is a joke and makes me seriously consider bringing in some PCs to my workflow because they are offering and doing things that I have only dreamed of with Apple.

I hope this doesn't turn into a one liner fanboy "I love Apple!" thread, but people have to notice what the rest of world of computing is offering over Apple.

There was a time when it wasn't much. Every PC had USB, that was it. Apple had FW400, FW800, USB and so forth. PCs have all three, eSATA, HDMI, Blu Ray, and much more now. While Apple made a super strong case, but nothing can benefits anyone that's not just d!cking around.

If it weren't for OSX, which I am sure everyone loves, there'd be no reason to buy Mac hardware. If Hackintoshing was as stable as running it natively on the Mac, I'd be there with hardware that I've been missing out on for years.

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

The only "edge" Apple has lost, is the fact that Apple has to be consistant with themselves. Anything that is new has to be consistant with everything else that is Apple.

Apple has decided on a "look", and they're sticking with it.........

 

[bizzle]

Any monkey can throw bells and whistles at computer hardware, doesn't mean it's very well implemented or designed.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Any monkey can throw bells and whistles at computer hardware, doesn't mean it's very well implemented or designed.

Check out the CES photos and what Sony and Dell are making now. It's more than just what you say.

 

[bruinsrme]

Check out the CES photos and what Sony and Dell are making now. It's more than just what you say.

I have posted thisin several other threads.

I really wanted to make the change to apple. The hardware that is available is lagging.
Bluray and HDMI are a couple of things that really drove me to look at dell again. The XPS 1530 is a decent looking machine, pretty good battery life, excellent video and bluray and wth HDMI out, firewire, vga out, video in, 3 usbs, 1gig nic I am pleased.

granted the macs are the nicest looking computers out there but their lack of incorporatingthe latest hardware was somewhat shocking to me.

OS10 I am sure it is very good. Vista has some quirks but all 7 machines are now on Vista and haven't had any major issues.

Apple got me on beauty, Dell got me on price, warranty and hardware.

Helmet on commence flogging

 

[brad.c]

I hope this doesn't turn into a one liner fanboy "I love Apple!" thread, but people have to notice what the rest of world of computing is offering over Apple.

Oops. I should have been more verbose. I'm a long, long time Apple user, but even an old fanboy can still get irate when the line-up is too narrow and inflexible to answer needs less common than the average consumer.

If it weren't for OSX, which I am sure everyone loves, there'd be no reason to buy Mac hardware. If Hackintoshing was as stable as running it natively on the Mac, I'd be there with hardware that I've been missing out on for years.

Quite true, which is a big part of why we'll likely not see an open license for OSX.

What I've long thought to be the biggest benefit of the Intel transition is to level the hardware field, leaving users to judge based on the merits of the OS. But it also allows us to see any glaring differences under the hood, and I think its important to point them out.

Because, while it takes more than an edge in design to force me to consider a windows world, Apple better not take that as a reason to become complacent à la Quark.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Oops. I should have been more verbose. I'm a long, long time Apple user, but even an old fanboy can still get irate when the line-up is too narrow and inflexible to answer needs less common than the average consumer.

Same here. Only recently have I seen those glaring differences you speak of. And now no one can really say, save for personal opinion, that PCs are just ugly boxes. They actually look quite nice, and in some regards better than their Mac counterparts.

Quite true, which is a big part of why we'll likely not see an open license for OSX.

What I've long thought to be the biggest benefit of the Intel transition is to level the hardware field, leaving users to judge based on the merits of the OS. But it also allows us to see any glaring differences under the hood, and I think its important to point them out.

Beautifully said. You did fill in the thoughts I had about this situation as well. The OS stands heads above the rest. Especially when paired with Apple Pro apps and services and 3rd party apps like Daylite which I have seen in action from a colleague of mine.

When you look at the machine with a blank screen and benchmarks and so forth, you have to consider those differences in hardware and price. Also, how the machine looks when it's packing in a quad core, 4 USB, eSATA, HDMI, BluRay, etc.

My shining example being the Sony TZ, which is small and lighter than the Air, but has more ports, Blu Ray, and optional dual HDDs.

 

[MisterMe]

After looking through a lot of the CES photos and much of what is on the market right now I am convinced that Apple has finally lost the design edge that it used to have 2 or 3 years ago.

...

You make the shopworn mistakes of confusing styling with design and confusing visual clutter with styling. People have been making those mistakes for much longer than 2 or 3 years.

Implicit in your post is your lack of awareness of the extent to which function drives form in Apple design. Behold the iPhone. It was introduced two years ago. RIM, a respected manufacturer in its own right, has only recently begun to market a pale imitation of the iPhone. Behold the new MacBook/MacBook Pro, a family of laptops, each of which are carved out of a single aluminum block. These minimally-styled computers require and incorporate Apple's most brilliant laptop design yet.

I will leave you with one final thought. When I was growing up, I was taught the definitive test of artistic ability: Can you draw a circle.

 

[Theophany]

If it weren't for OSX, which I am sure everyone loves, there'd be no reason to buy Mac hardware. If Hackintoshing was as stable as running it natively on the Mac, I'd be there with hardware that I've been missing out on for years.

That's like saying 'if it weren't for the fact that it is compatible with practically everything, nobody would use Windows.' It's a pointless thing to say on the basis that it has no bearing on reality. OS X only works as well as it does because it is coded for a closed-list of hardware that is chosen by Apple. Hackintoshing could NEVER be as stable as OS X on a Mac. Take from that what you will, but to me that just makes sense as a business strategy.

Design is always a matter of opinion. It's what separates the people who think Modern Art looks like the scribblings of a retard from those who pay millions of dollars for it. Whether you love or hate Apple's design is irrelevant, what's relevant is that it got your attention. If you're misguided enough to buy a computer based on its looks rather than what it does better than the competition, then this entire post is wasted on you.


EDIT: So what if the junk at CES looks better, I'll bet you'll be hard-pushed to find total originality. Palm Pre? ****ing iClone, more like.

 

[gjw4u]

I do believe that the MBA & the iPhone show that Apple is still keeping the edge.

 

[Digital Skunk]

I do believe that the MBA & the iPhone show that Apple is still keeping the edge.

iPhone yes, MBA, not so much.

 

[monke]

I really don't think Apple has the design edge like it used to. Everything looks the same in their product line, which might be more of a marketing aspect to promote a brand image as opposed to having a design edge.

Judging from this thread, it breaks down into two categories; hardware and software. It's quite obvious who leads each category. PC's have far more options, from HDMI to Blu-ray, it's really undeniable. Apple has the edge on software by far, there's nothing close to what they can do for a user experience. It's pretty much always going to be this way though, unless Apple really steps up. There's 5 or so 'big name' companies going against them, along with many smaller companies, that combined will all be able to offer more hardware options to compete with each other.

All in all it just boils down to what you are looking for. I'd love for Apple to have more hardware options instead of the simple and compact product line their going for. There's certain products they have an edge on, the iPhone being one, but their design edge they used to have is certainly slipping away, and they're really going to have to step up their game.

 

[Digital Skunk]

I really don't think Apple has the design edge like it used to. Everything looks the same in their product line, which might be more of a marketing aspect to promote a brand image as opposed to having a design edge.

I agree. I like the consistency of the designs, I really wish they there STYLE (which may be the preferred word as mentioned by others) allowed for more function.

By the way, this is the opposite of what I mean by Dell. Their Adamo is a complete knockoff of Apple Blackbook/aluminum Macbook design. Nice, but a knockoff none the less. Haven't yet checked the specs.

 

[NT1440]

Well seeing as alot of companies are trying to mimick apples designs, id have to say your statements may not be true.

Of course this whole thread is nothing but opinions because this kind of thing cannot be measured.

I personally think Apple has the most beautiful designs in the industry.

 

[apsterling]

The advantage Apple has is aluminum. The computers don't look as though they're made of lightweight cheap plastic. Aluminum, while lightweight, feels much harder and more solid than the plastic, which to me feels much stronger and better designed.

Though even the white Macbooks feel better than any Dell I've used.

I will admit Windows PC's and notebooks are getting better, but the design just doesn't feel solid in most cases as Apple's.

 

[NT1440]

The advantage Apple has is aluminum. The computers don't look as though they're made of lightweight cheap plastic. Aluminum, while lightweight, feels much harder and more solid than the plastic, which to me feels much stronger and better designed.

Though even the white Macbooks feel better than any Dell I've used.

I will admit Windows PC's and notebooks are getting better, but the design just doesn't feel solid in most cases as Apple's.

Other companies have been using aluminum for a loooooong time. What apple has is how they make their aluminum LOOK.

 

[apsterling]

Other companies have been using aluminum for a loooooong time. What apple has is how they make their aluminum LOOK.

And how they use it all the way through and it's thick aluminum.
It feels like metal. I've got a Dell with aluminum but it's not thick like Apple's.

 

[Abstract]

And how they use it all the way through and it's thick aluminum.
It feels like metal. I've got a Dell with aluminum but it's not thick like Apple's.

Apple's isn't thick, either. People will believe what they want to believe, I guess.


@DigitalSkunk: The Palm Pre isn't ugly at all. In fact, it's the only one of the touchscreen devices that looks like it was designed to be a mobile phone rather than a multimedia device, or just tech jewellery. I guess that's why I also like my Nokia 5800 XpressMusic/Tube. Others may be more shiny, but the Palm Pre is a nice looking, if simple, design. Samsung and LG just copied the iPhone's basic look, albeit with slight differences. That really says something about the companies behind those products.

 

[Digital Skunk]

@DigitalSkunk: The Palm Pre isn't ugly at all. In fact, it's the only one of the touchscreen devices that looks like it was designed to be a mobile phone rather than a multimedia device, or just tech jewellery. I guess that's why I also like my Nokia 5800 XpressMusic/Tube. Others may be more shiny, but the Palm Pre is a nice looking, if simple, design. Samsung and LG just copied the iPhone's basic look, albeit with slight differences. That really says something about the companies behind those products.

I can agree to that, and it does make it a little easier for me to warm up to the Pre's look.

It reminds me a lot of my HTC Touch and other egg/bean shaped phones. Even the screen size is warming up to me since it makes the phone a bit smaller than the others.

I really can't wait to get that thing in my hands.

 

[rhett7660]

I can agree to that, and it does make it a little easier for me to warm up to the Pre's look.

It reminds me a lot of my HTC Touch and other egg/bean shaped phones. Even the screen size is warming up to me since it makes the phone a bit smaller than the others.

I really can't wait to get that thing in my hands.

I for one do not like the egg shape. Does not appeal to me at all. However the UI is very nice and slick. I thought the same of the BB Storm until I had it in my hands. Didn't like it, didn't like the floating glass etc. It had some nice features but once I had it in my hands I didn't like the feel of it. I will wait and see what the Pre does for me when I have it in my hands.

As far as Apple behind in the design, to me that is tough to say. They still have some nice products and nice design lines. So I don't think they have lost it or are loosing it....... But there are a lot of companies that are on there heels and are chipping away at them rather quickly.

Question: Has apple ever been ahead of the pack when it came to speed and additional hardware on any of its products? Sure they had firewire etc but didn't the PC market have a slew of other options available not available on the Mac? I am asking, I don't know. To me it has seemed that the Mac has always been behind/or slow to the market with it's hardware updates and spec's.