Apple Ceases to have Design Edge

[chewietobbacca]

Hardware wise, PC has always had the edge - its just that recently, Apple has lagged farther behind than ever before, which is unfortunate because there are tons of new hardware things out there I would love to see (HDMI, Blu-ray, eSATA, etc.) that there aren't really good reasons why they don't exist.

As far as OS goes, I use both OS X and Windows 7 beta right now, and honestly, Win 7 is snappier and faster on the same hardware. MS did a really good job with Win 7, and this is just beta. I'm hoping this lights a fire under Apple to get Snow Leopard to deliver, cause Tiger -> Leopard left a lot of things to be desired

 

[surferfromuk]

Unibody design is the edge.

Agreed.

It's so easy to copy the leader and make something that superficially looks similar but quality and class are sometimes hard to market and for people to truly appreciate.

Even the last gen Macbook is still significantly superior in design, construction, quality of material and just style to any '09 Dell or Sony tech. The new Apple Unibody form is a leap ahead again.

This is the BMW vs Ford analogy again which is why Apple are focusing on unique and bespoke hardware innovations

Vista 7 is still Vista under the hood, but with a few more glossy tricks. It still has the same GUI DNA. Where OSX attempts to be as simpler and less cluttered, Windows tends to be as cluttered as it possibly can be.

OSX is UNIX, and with Open CL and Grand Central they will exploit their h/w and s/w integration advantage on all their platforms.

Its just the superficial differences that any of these companies can mimic.

Did you ever see a Porsche 911 kit car driving down the road?

Looks real convincing...until you get close up then you see it for the third rate copy that it really is.

 

[bruinsrme]

Agreed.

It's so easy to copy the leader and make something that superficially looks similar but quality and class are sometimes hard to market and for people to truly appreciate.

Even the last gen Macbook is still significantly superior in design, construction, quality of material and just style to any '09 Dell or Sony tech. The new Apple Unibody form is a leap ahead again.

This is the BMW vs Ford analogy again which is why Apple are focusing on unique and bespoke hardware innovations

Vista 7 is still Vista under the hood, but with a few more glossy tricks. It still has the same GUI DNA. Where OSX attempts to be as simpler and less cluttered, Windows tends to be as cluttered as it possibly can be.

OSX is UNIX, and with Open CL and Grand Central they will exploit their h/w and s/w integration advantage on all their platforms.
Its just the superficial differences that any of these companies can mimic.

Did you ever see a Porsche 911 kit car driving down the road?

Looks real convincing...until you get close up then you see it for the third rate copy that it really is.

Hmmm. If this is the case why then for the need to run windows on mac. According to many posts the 9400 and 9600 nvidia cards are performing better under the windows boot? Just wondering if the OS is not able to exploit the hardware as of yet?

Don't get me wrong it is a nice looking machine but I would rather have the latest hardware.

 

[chewietobbacca]

Open CL, CUDA, and DX11's ComputeShade will all be available in Win 7 (and Vista already really) - this is where the hardware issue comes in too. The superior hardware on PC's will mean that if programs are written to take advantage of the hardware, PC's can be even faster in the future. Sure, Apple has a lot riding on using the GPU's to offload work, for instance, but if you offload work to a PC's GPU, they can reach even more ridiculous heights

As far as the entire Nvidia thing though... I must say, Nvidia drivers on Mac's have always been subpar to ATI

 

[UltraNEO*]

Does it improve overall perfromance?

Don't get me wrong it is very nice.

You can always tape some "racing strips" to the sides.
That aught to improve it's performance, don't do it like this...

 

[bruinsrme]

Any idea if a ATI kept up with supporting mac post AMD purchase.

Apples use of Nvidia products is relatively recent isn't it?

Its too bad the drivers are the limiting factor.

 

[chaos86]

I'm sorry but I've yet to see a PC notebook that has basic SYMMETRY. My macbook pro is almost perfectly symmetrical, and all it's surfaces are flat.

I know not all PCs are like this, but my roommate's recent model 17" top of the line HP is horrible. It has the trackpad toward the left (away from the more commonly used right hand), has an protruding fingerprint reader that pokes your wrist when you type, the display bezel has 4, one eighth inch tall protrusions to hold it away from the keyboard, and two giant hooks to hold it shut. There are 5 randomly arraigned buttons (media keys, I/O toggles, and power button) above the keyboard, in three different sizes and depths, two backlit, one with a border that lights up, and the rest stay dark. The underside is horrible: 7 (yes 7) randomly arranged quarter inch tall feet that stab your legs when you use it on your lap and there are 4 different plastic covers- the battery cover sticks out a quarter inch, the ram cover is raised a little, one raised fan and one recessed fan. On every surface there are vents, and yet the thing is still more noisy when idling than a MBP at 6000RPM. There are 4 different shades of gray plastic which make up this machine, and when you move it or open it, every one of them seem to creak and make flexing noises which make it feel like a crappy Taiwanese toy. There are 5 stickers on it (made for vista, 2 warnings, vista key, and intel), it's 11.2 lbs and it's 2.4" thick.

On the other hand, hardware-wise it's basically the same as my unibody MBP, plus a 9 in 1 card reader, 56k modem, blu-ray. Purchased about the same time, his was $200 more, but it's value on ebay is less than half of what mine is.

Again, I'm sure there are pretty PCs, and I've seen many that are much better designed than my roommates, but I haven't seen an ugly or badly designed Mac since the 20th anniversary mac (ignoring the flower power iMac G3).

 

[bruinsrme]

My son has a XPS1730. It is one heck of a gaming computer and fall under the catergory of desktop replacement.

the thing is literately a desktop stuffed into a small package.

That is what gamers prefer. I agree they are heavy, big, run warm.

the frame rates with the dual SLI setup, raid set ups, ram galore and make for a powerhouse machine.

Not for me tho.

 

[NT1440]

I'm sorry but I've yet to see a PC notebook that has basic SYMMETRY. My macbook pro is almost perfectly symmetrical, and all it's surfaces are flat.

I know not all PCs are like this, but my roommate's recent model 17" top of the line HP is horrible. It has the trackpad toward the left (away from the more commonly used right hand),

THIS!

I HATE off center keyboards/trackpads. I just cannot stand it, I feel skewed to the side in a wierd twist because I center myself in front of the screen but have have to use the touchpad/keyboard off to the side.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Some pictures of Dell laptops look far better than models from a few years ago, but they are not released yet and I don't think they will be the budget type. I like the looks of HP laptops better among the budget laptops.

Still, I gotta ask. How can you tell Palm's new OS is "decidedly" better, before anyone has really used it?

Same here. I love the HP Mini Mi netbook a whole lot more than the other offerings.

The Pre to me is decidedly better simply on the videos and feature list that I have been watching. There are some caveats that many iPhone users will bring up that may have the Pre at a disadvantage like iTunes and Mobile Me, but the proprietary things aside, the usability to me seems much more carefully thought out than Apple's, push to launch and push home to close.

And contrary to anyone that says they copied Apple (those that may not have being using any PDAs or smartphones since their first iPhone), it's an upgrade from the Palm OS, and nothing at all like the iPhone.... from what I see.

Go grab yourself one of those super light ultra portables and dismantle it, such as the Sony Viao TT70B. They're fairly cheap, just a couple of grand...

This is the truth, and usually the conversation ender when talking about what PC companies have been doing design and tech wise. To have a machine smaller than the Air, lighter than the Air, and with longer batt life than the air with two USB, two HDDs, BluRay, HDMI, and media card reader is a bit of ????????? for me in regards to Apple's design. The Air is wonderful, perfect in some ways, but the Sony TT is what the 12"/11.1" MBP should have been.

Bringing it up when comparing hardware and design usually leaves others silent, or tossing out their opinions on how the TT is ugly/fugly/Apple knock-off and such.

Unibody design is the edge.

For cases sure, but a computer is more than just a pretty case isn't it?

The HP Firebird is an awkward desktop machine. But it sure as hell makes the Mac Pro look like a toy when you open the side. No Xeon processors and 32GB of RAM as far as I remember, but dual double wide for SLI, 5 HDD bays for RAID 5, etc.... come on.

I like the look of the Mac Pro, and I hope that consumers stop suggesting or whining about it needing a redesign JUST on the casing (in typical Apple fashion), but the Firebird isn't bad looking at all to me. And it's design isn't simply cosmetic.

 

[NT1440]

For cases sure, but a computer is more than just a pretty case isn't it?

The HP Firebird is an awkward desktop machine. But it sure as hell makes the Mac Pro look like a toy when you open the side. No Xeon processors and 32GB of RAM as far as I remember, but dual double wide for SLI, 5 HDD bays for RAID 5, etc.... come on.

I like the look of the Mac Pro, and I hope that consumers stop suggesting or whining about it needing a redesign JUST on the casing (in typical Apple fashion), but the Firebird isn't bad looking at all to me. And it's design isn't simply cosmetic.

I agree that the Mac Pro needs some updates on specs, but Im confused about your last sentance. Maybe Im just reading it in the wrong light but it kinda sounds like your implying that the Mac Pro's design is just cosmetic?

 

[Digital Skunk]

I agree that the Mac Pro needs some updates on specs, but Im confused about your last sentance. Maybe Im just reading it in the wrong light but it kinda sounds like your implying that the Mac Pro's design is just cosmetic?

No, and I agree that it needs spec updates.

I am referring to those that chime in and scream about how old the Mac Pro case design is, and want to change it without changing the specs or the options offered.

If there is a case change to be made, let it be for spec reason, more hardware, better cooling (if needed), etc. Not because some people are tired of the cheese grater look.

 

[bruinsrme]

THIS!

I HATE off center keyboards/trackpads. I just cannot stand it, I feel skewed to the side in a wierd twist because I center myself in front of the screen but have have to use the touchpad/keyboard off to the side.

that is so when gamng it goves the right hand ample room to ise he number pad.
My 1530 is slightly skewed but centered on the keyboard

 

[NT1440]

No, and I agree that it needs spec updates.

I am referring to those that chime in and scream about how old the Mac Pro case design is, and want to change it without changing the specs or the options offered.

If there is a case change to be made, let it be for spec reason, more hardware, better cooling (if needed), etc. Not because some people are tired of the cheese grater look.

I think we've finally found something we can agree on

 

[NT1440]

that is so when gamng it goves the right hand ample room to ise he number pad.
My 1530 is slightly skewed but centered on the keyboard

I know what its for, but I HATE it.

 

[bruinsrme]

not a big fan of it either but when I watch my son flying arnd the number pad and keypad I am impressed as I am ofthe smooth video

 

[chaos86]

that is so when gamng it goves the right hand ample room to ise he number pad.
My 1530 is slightly skewed but centered on the keyboard

Gaming is left hand to left side of keyboard + right hand to mouse/trackpad. At least every game I've ever played.

 

[NT1440]

not a big fan of it either but when I watch my son flying arnd the number pad and keypad I am impressed as I am ofthe smooth video

Yea, your sons a gamer tho, I HATE gaming on the computer.

 

[bruinsrme]

Yea, your sons a gamer tho, I HATE gaming on the computer.

he is in college, so no xbox360, PS3 or wil is allowed in his apartment.

Nothing we can do he needs a computer since his major is graphic media and animation.

When he comes home there are plenty of consoles in the house. he has the choice of 4 locations to play 360, 2 for the and 2 for ps3.

he gets pissed when I bump im frm the home theater

 

[NT1440]

he is in college, so no xbox360, PS3 or wil is allowed in his apartment.

WHAT ?!

What school does he attend!?

Consoles seem to THRIVE in colleges across the world.

Again, WHAT?!

 

[bruinsrme]

WHAT ?!

What school does he attend!?

Consoles seem to THRIVE in colleges across the world.

Again, WHAT?!

He has his own apartment away from campus.

Since he did so well in his first semester, I went out and bought him a new elite and live card.he gets it Feb 1

 

[NT1440]

He has his own apartment away from campus.

Since he did so well in his first semester, I went out and bought him a new elite and live card.he gets it Feb 1

Wait, then why did you say he cant have a console?

 

[rhett7660]

No, and I agree that it needs spec updates.

I am referring to those that chime in and scream about how old the Mac Pro case design is, and want to change it without changing the specs or the options offered.

If there is a case change to be made, let it be for spec reason, more hardware, better cooling (if needed), etc. Not because some people are tired of the cheese grater look.

I agree. I love the cheese grater look. I hope they don't change that. If they change anything let it be a for speed, cooling etc...... But keep the design.

 

[bruinsrme]

Tuition is very steep for this school. Our son's grades in high school were below average. The college gave us the cold shoulder at first. When the kid took the SATs he blew them away. When he presented his portfolio and his art awards the school as blown away.
So as a concession to him living off campus in his own apartment in Boston, Tuition, and so on he would not be able to have a xbox360, or other game console in his apartment. He did sneak his PS2 tho.

We have 4 xbox360s, 2 wiis and 2 PS3s. Of course I got the mom would not know if I took one..
My reply was "we are paying nearly $4500 a month for you to go to school blah blah blah" .

The high counsel set Rule one "no consoles." I agreed to that so I could at least wear the pants to work.

So his grades were fantastic I was able to ge approval from the high counsel for him to have a 360 in his apartment. So Feb 1 he will have his new 360

 

[NT1440]

Tuition is very steep for this school. Our son's grades in high school were below average. The college gave us the cold shoulder at first. When the kid took the SATs he blew them away. When he presented his portfolio and his art awards the school as blown away.
So as a concession to him living off campus in his own apartment in Boston, Tuition, and so on he would not be able to have a xbox360, or other game console in his apartment. He did sneak his PS2 tho.

We have 4 xbox360s, 2 wiis and 2 PS3s. Of course I got the mom would not know if I took one..
My reply was "we are paying nearly $4500 a month for you to go to school blah blah blah" .

The high counsel set Rule one "no consoles." I agreed to that so I could at least wear the pants to work.

So his grades were fantastic I was able to ge approval from the high counsel for him to have a 360 in his apartment. So Feb 1 he will have his new 360

Wow thats a restrictive school!

My I ask what country you live in??