Apple Ceases to have Design Edge

[Digital Skunk]

Question: Has apple ever been ahead of the pack when it came to speed and additional hardware on any of its products? Sure they had firewire etc but didn't the PC market have a slew of other options available not available on the Mac? I am asking, I don't know. To me it has seemed that the Mac has always been behind/or slow to the market with it's hardware updates and spec's.

This is actually a very good question, it takes me back to when I first sign on and got my Fanboy Superhero shirt and everything back in the G4 days.

There was actually a time when it was the case. When the Power Mac G5 was said to dust the Pentium in speed tests, and debating went on for days about the differences between the operating systems running on either machine. Also, the differences in just the Power PC chip and the Pentium.

The G5 tower started at $1499 and even the iMac had an actual desktop class G5 processor inside.

The laptops were pretty much done speed wise by 2006, they were still running the very dated G4 chips and the PC counterparts were blowing them away hand over fist.

Then there was the lack of GFX options on the Mac side, but other than that Macs were either on par for what you needed or the solid better choice. Now, it's the same hardware, less options, and more ordinary style. The style part is my opinion though. I like the style, but wouldn't mind a fugly Mac OSX quad core laptop.

 

[thecrunge]

When it comes to Apple products, either you like it or you don't.

 

[NT1440]

Apple's isn't thick, either. People will believe what they want to believe, I guess.

I think he might be confusing rigidity or something with thickness, Ive played around with a good number of aluminum laptops before, some feel just as strong as a macbook, some feel flimsy.

 

[UltraNEO*]

Once the box is turned on, I'm only looking at the interface. Sorry, Apple wins.

but before you can really enjoy the Mac's GUI the battery dies flat on it's face! Has to be said, Apple's battery technology isn't the most desirable... for instance, they have to remove the 'removable' battery in order to make the machine/device run longer? Sorry, that just tells me Apple hasn't innovated very far with it's research into better, or more efficient hardware.

Sony have managed to obtain super long life from their Ultra-Portables yet retain the 'removable' battery. Some of their personal audio equipment have enough juice for upto 80hours playback! Why can't Apple learn something from them? Besides copying the tile keyboard?

 

[puffnstuff]

Apple has never been a something for everyone company and I think it is starting to bite them in the ass more then ever. Who the hell needs an all in one touch screen pc? Somebody does so HP made one. Who the hell needs a keyboard pc with touchscreen and wireless HDMI? Somebody does so Asus made one. On the other hand Apple has always been late to the game and changed things up.

So if Apple followed the something for everyone and the everything you can do I can do better idea I am sure they will be able to roll out the hits.

 

[NT1440]

Sony have managed to obtain super long life from their Ultra-Portables yet retain the 'removable' battery. Some of their personal audio equipment have enough juice for upto 80hours playback! Why can't Apple learn something from them? Besides copying the tile keyboard?

Why are you comparing completely different things for battery life?

First you talk about ultra portables, with lower spec energy saving components, no duh thats going to have good battery life.

Then you talk about audio equipment, which AFAIK, apple doesnt even make.

And the non removeable is in the 17" ONLY. There isn't really a ton of 17" laptops that have amazing battery life in the first place.


Battery life depends heavily on what product its used in, why you are comparing apples to oranges is beyond me

 

[UltraNEO*]

Why are you comparing completely different things for battery life?

First you talk about ultra portables, with lower spec energy saving components, no duh thats going to have good battery life.

Yeah your the one that's confused here.. sorry.

Then you talk about audio equipment, which AFAIK, apple doesnt even make.

So.. the iPod series ain't technically "audio equipment" and Apple's IEC ear-buds didn''t derived from technological design and ergonomics?

And the non removeable is in the 17" ONLY.

Really? So the MacBook Air has a removable battery?

There isn't really a ton of 17" laptops that have amazing battery life in the first place.

Maybe so..

Battery life depends heavily on what product its used in, why you are comparing apples to oranges is beyond me

Wait, maybe I'm missing something here, you saying you have the state of the art, cell-less mobile device? Battery life in a product is what makes it usable on the road and when it comes to having the 'design edge' when it comes to a technology company, it should be more than just skin deep.

 

[theBB]

The Dell offerings at CES are smooth, sweet, and I know will be Quad core with removable batteries. The Pre is fugly, but the OS is decidedly better than the iPhone.

Some pictures of Dell laptops look far better than models from a few years ago, but they are not released yet and I don't think they will be the budget type. I like the looks of HP laptops better among the budget laptops.

Still, I gotta ask. How can you tell Palm's new OS is "decidedly" better, before anyone has really used it?

 

[NT1440]

Yeah your the one that's confused here.. sorry.




So.. the iPod series ain't technically "audio equipment" and Apple's IEC ear-buds didn''t derived from technological design and ergonomics?



Really? So the MacBook Air has a removable battery?



Maybe so..



Wait, maybe I'm missing something here, you saying you have the state of the art, cell-less mobile device? Battery life in a product is what makes it usable on the road and when it comes to having the 'design edge' when it comes to a technology company, it should be more than just skin deep.

Yes I was deeply confused at your post because you were all over the place. I had no idea that when you said audio equipment you meant an ipod, which most of consider a media player. The term audio equipment had me thinking you meant something related to recording/creating/manipulation audio in a studio.

And yes I forgot the air.

And to the underlined: I have no idea what you where trying to say with that first sentance because havn't said anything remotely resembling that. I was under the impression that we were talking laptops here, which is why I was confused when you were talking about "audio equipment" and ultra portables.

 

[bruinsrme]

I wouldn't consider the ipods or iphones audio equipment they are playback devices.

 

[NT1440]

I wouldn't consider the ipods or iphones audio equipment they are playback devices.

Thats what confused me, when one hears "audio equipment" you tend to think mixing boards, microphones, etc etc

 

[UltraNEO*]

Thats what confused me, when one hears "audio equipment" you tend to think mixing boards, microphones, etc etc

Maybe I should of refer to them as "personal audio devices", since the original incarnation of the iPod didn't support other medias besides music... not even images.

And to the underlined: I have no idea what you where trying to say with that first sentance because havn't said anything remotely resembling that. I was under the impression that we were talking laptops here, which is why I was confused when you were talking about "audio equipment" and ultra portables.

Oops my bad. Allow me to make it more legible.

Wait... maybe I'm missing something here. Are you saying you have the 'state-of-the-art" cell-less mobile device (not just laptops)? Free from energy and fuel cells? In the case of a Laptop, the battery life in a product is what makes it usable on the road. And when it comes to having the 'design edge', it should be more than just skin deep. Hence, many of Apple's products looks physically great but they're lacking in technological breakthroughs, internally.

Maybe I'm expecting too much? ...maybe it's because Apple doesn't actually deploy engineers to design it's products from the ground up? instead they're tend to refine products by using existing technology... I dunno... Whatever Apple does, they ain't trying hard enough, perhaps they should seek fresh talent and fresh eyes when it comes to product design, ergonomics and innovations.

 

[NT1440]

Oops my bad. Allow me to make it more legible.

Wait... maybe I'm missing something here. Are you saying you have the 'state-of-the-art" cell-less mobile device (not just laptops)? Free from energy and fuel cells? In the case of a Laptop, the battery life in a product is what makes it usable on the road. And when it comes to having the 'design edge', it should be more than just skin deep. Hence, many of Apple's products looks physically great but they're lacking in technological breakthroughs, internally.

NO, I have NO idea why you are saying this. I dont even own a mac! NO WHERE did I say that I have a device with some sort of revolutionary battery or power source.

They use the same power sources as most laptops out there, why is apple the only one that gets crap for not making "technological breakthroughs" everytime it puts a product out?

 

[UltraNEO*]

NO, I have NO idea why you are saying this. I dont even own a mac! NO WHERE did I say that I have a device with some sort of revolutionary battery or power source.

I didn't say you had an Apple device, it never crossed my mind to assume it either. Nor was my original reply responding to you.

They use the same power sources as most laptops out there, why is apple the only one that gets crap for not making "technological breakthroughs" everytime it puts a product out?

They're not.. well.. not from me. I moan at all the companies across the board, especially at those who claim they're "innovative".

 

[NT1440]

They're not.. well.. not from me. I moan at all the companies across the board, especially at those who claim they're "innovative".

So when a company is innovative they have to be innovative across every single thing they do?

Battery technology is a tricky thing. Breakthroughs don't really happen at the company level, rather at dedicated research facilities.

 

[MacTraveller]

Check out the CES photos and what Sony and Dell are making now. It's more than just what you say.

Dell is desperate. Adamo line sounds like Recession-time desperation.

 

[NT1440]

Dell is desperate. Adamo line sounds like Recession-time desperation.

Its being labeled part of dells "luxury" line. Meaning it will cost more. I still find it amusing that they wont list specs or price, but its deffinatly going to be more than an average dell.

Recession time desperation would mean selling huge quantities of really really cheap (money wise) laptops/netbooks.

 

[bruinsrme]

The design of is definity on the PC side.
OEMs have put a TON of pressure on MS to fix vista issues, hence the push for windows 7. Vista is to windows what Me was, a huge POS and debacle.

MS knows it, OEMs know it, Users know it.

Reading through this forum it is well established that the PC hardwares is referred to as garbage. don't look inside the newer machines but Macs are using the same processors, chipsets, and video cards as PCs.

Intel doesn't make different chips for Apple and Dell. Same chips, same production lines, the chips are binned from the same wafers, using he same reticles, steppers, scanners, furnaces, etchers, resist and so on. Apples doesn't get special substrate.

Apple just happens to come in a prettier box, very good OS, higher premium but the implementation of the some of the latest hardware is now 3 generations behind the PC. Windows 7 just might close that gap evenmore minus the premium gap.

If apple doesn't want to incorporate the latest hardware so be it, that may be Apples business model.

 

[rfrankl]

Were it not for Apple, other companies would still be offering crap designs. I still think Apple has an edge on most.

Totally agree. Then once you throw in the user interface, there is no comparison.

 

[bruinsrme]

Its being labeled part of dells "luxury" line. Meaning it will cost more. I still find it amusing that they wont list specs or price, but its deffinatly going to be more than an average dell.

Recession time desperation would mean selling huge quantities of really really cheap (money wise) laptops/netbooks.

lets just say there are changes in the chipset that are not solidified as of yet or there in't enough built up to say the chipset specs can be released.

Dell might be waiting on something to be implemented from their chipset supplier.

 

[UltraNEO*]

So when a company is innovative they have to be innovative across every single thing they do?

Battery technology is a tricky thing. Breakthroughs don't really happen at the company level, rather at dedicated research facilities.

When a company develops and/or releases new hardware, then later release an update. Those little creases discovered in the original revision should be resolved, right? Therefore offering an improvement. In the case of Apple and their mobile computing equipment this isn't so, often they introduce new hardware with new features which usually avoid the the issues of the last generation and also introduce a whole new problem.

For example, ever since Apple introduced their MacBook series, the built-in audio hardware still producing imperfect sound, still suffering from electrical isolation issues hence 'buzzing' with the occasional 'pop'.

In the case of Battery technology, I think Apple shouldn't be wasting time and money doing the research themselves, instead they should deploy a dedicated department into new researching what could be utilises to better/improve their range of products.

 

[xlii]

My old 2002 ibook died last week and I'm in the hunt for a replacement. My daughter has a 2 year old MBP and I love it. I was hoping the new 17" MBP would be more than just a size upgrade to the 15" MBP but besides the battery that's all it was.

I don't need extreme portabilty so a 15 - 18 incher will do just fine. I was at a packed Apple store in Natick Massachusetts last night and the fit & finish of the MBP's and MacBooks are just superb. That said I'm torn because for the same money I could buy a computer that offers so much more 'under the hood'. Go and spec out this HP machine and see what you can get for ~2200 or so:

http://www.shopping.hp.com/series/category/notebooks/HDX18t_series/3/computer_store

Apple has them beat for the look, fit and finish (and of course OSX and the dual boot). But under the hood... no way.

 

[bruinsrme]

Dell is desperate. Adamo line sounds like Recession-time desperation.

Dell desperate?

I am sure many companies are desperate to maintain market share during these great economic times.

 

[bruinsrme]

My old 2002 ibook died last week and I'm in the hunt for a replacement. My daughter has a 2 year old MBP and I love it. I was hoping the new 17" MBP would be more than just a size upgrade to the 15" MBP but besides the battery that's all it was.

I don't need extreme portabilty so a 15 - 18 incher will do just fine. I was at a packed Apple store in Natick Massachusetts last night and the fit & finish of the MBP's and MacBooks are just superb. That said I'm torn because for the same money I could buy a computer that offers so much more 'under the hood'. Go and spec out this HP machine and see what you can get for ~2200 or so:

http://www.shopping.hp.com/series/category/notebooks/HDX18t_series/3/computer_store

Apple has them beat for the look, fit and finish (and of course OSX and the dual boot). But under the hood... no way.

if you like sony at all take a trip down to the Wrentham outlet and visit sony. Sometimes they have some unbelievable deals.

 

[xlii]

if you like sony at all take a trip down to the Wrentham outlet and visit sony. Sometimes they have some unbelievable deals.

The other day I took a look at Sony's competitor to the HP... over $1000. more for the same apple... makes Apple's MBP 17" look underpriced. I don't get down to the Wrentham Outlets even though I live 10 miles away in Millis.