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I think the thread has nicely established how absolutely hosed the USA is

Everyone thinks everyone else is crazy/wrong/terrible/the enemy

It's so sad to watch this (no matter which political persuasions once approaches it from)

I wish we could reboot things and try again from about the 1970s on --- or perhaps even just the start of the mainstream Internet era
We really need to go back to before 1913, the year the Federal Reserve and the income tax were created. Abolishing those two things would solve a lot of our problems.
 
A key reason we can't have better social services is that Americans are obsessed with any notion that "someone might get something they don't deserve"
That's true. And today many are getting many somethings they don't deserve. And we are footing the bill. "We" meaning those who may actually care about this and not blindly support everything. It's irony in this thread reeks of cognitive dissonance.
This has borne itself out in UBI studies and trials also -- where people were on the average better off and liked the program but showed concern about any wider rollouts of such a concept because...."reasons"
 
The next four years have to be better than the last four years. There was a reason, even if some deny it, why the dems lost big time. Do you have some citation, other than a youtube video, that CEOs have murdered their customers? Of course that was framed in such an inflammatory way that it is probably separated from the facts by a chasm the size of the Grand Canyon.
Do you have some citation, other than a YouTube video, that "this was framed in such an inflammatory way that it is probably separated from the facts"?
 
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The US was never supposed to be a (pure) democracy. (Pure) democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on what's for dinner. We are supposed to be a Constitutional Republic. In a Constitutional Republic there are limits on what the government can do. Unfortunately we've forgotten this and we ignore our founding principles. Today there are virtually no limits on what the government can do, which is why we are $36T in debt and are suffering the consequences of it.
".....Unfortunately we've forgotten this and we ignore our founding principles. Today there are virtually no limits on what the government can do, which is why we are $36T in debt and are suffering the consequences of it...."

I think I agree.

I think, the problem in the US concentrate on a couple of basic principles;
- (only) 2 serious parties to vote for. I do not specifically advocate a system where 20 or so parties are active to choose from, but at least there' s more choice and, more importantly, those parties almost always have to work together to get a majority of votes (the chance of 1 being big enough to rule all others, is almost non existent). In my country I had to choose between 26 parties (!). Yes, a lot (maybe too many, but I still prefer this to a 2 party choice; I had to think!).
- The system of "electors" (don't know if this is the right word for it), where it is possible for someone to have more counted votes and still loose the elections.
- (there are more, but I'll not mention these)
 
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".....Unfortunately we've forgotten this and we ignore our founding principles. Today there are virtually no limits on what the government can do, which is why we are $36T in debt and are suffering the consequences of it...."

I think I agree.

I think, the problem in the US concentrate on a couple of basic principles;
- (only) 2 serious parties to vote for. I do not specifically advocate a system where 20 or so parties are active to choose from, but at least there' s more choice and, more importantly, those parties almost always have to work together to get a majority of votes (the chance of 1 being big enough to rule all others, is almost non existent).
- The system of "electors" (don't know if this is the right word for it), where it is possible for someone to have more counted votes and still loose the elections.
- (there are more, but I'll not mention these)

Ranked Choice Voting would solve so much

Which is why it's fought against by those currently with power (bi-partisan)
 
Best buds for life

Gessen-Goya.png
 
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That's true. And today many are getting many somethings they don't deserve. And we are footing the bill. "We" meaning those who may actually care about this and not blindly support everything. It's irony in this thread reeks of cognitive dissonance.
I think few are getting a lot of things they don't deserve...in that tiny group, there's probably a majority of the new administration in the US.
And yes, YOU are footing the bill!
Cognitive dissonance?
 
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Yeah, but between you and me, I wasn't the one telling other people to go do more research. The majority of the American people don't trust the media any more and for good reason.

The problem I have is that instead of trusting media, too many are now pivoting to "xyz podcaster" or "tiktok person XYZ" ... and even worse, whatever deep black hole of awful the YouTube algorithm leads them into*

It's like .. that's not better folks ...
You aren't getting the "real scoop"

You're getting brain droppings from a random and subjectivly useful cadre of folks blowing into a microphone



* I didn't fully understand how bad the YT algorithm issue is until helping an older relative with their YT account last week. They are someone who just clicks on stuff and leaves auto-play on and I couldn't believe the amount of wildly misinformative videos that were being suggested. It was nearly all totally inaccurate clickbait

I'm not even joking -- some of it should have been illegal to even present

There were thumbnails of what looked like child porn, endless videos of "people who died" (who are alive still), nazi stuff, flat earth BS, 9/11 denialism, conspiracies about seemingly everything .. on and on ... it was just one horrific thing after another

I personally use and enjoy YouTube, but you could convince me they should be shut down permanently based upon allowing that algorithm to run wild
 
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In the US, and in Delaware (where many US corporations are incorporated) in particular, there is a fiduciary responsibility to act in the best interests of the shareholders. There are many court cases about failure to maximize shareholder value. In eBay Domestic Holdings, Inc. v. Newmark, 16 A.3d 1 (Del. Ch. 2010), eBay, a minority shareholder, sued Craigslist founders for failing to pursue opportunities for profit and platform monetization. Craigslist argued that they were trying maintain a community orientation. The court found that a for-profit corporation cannot justify failing to pursue profits solely for altruistic reasons unless the corporate charter explicitly allows it. The court specifically emphasized that for-profit corporations are expected to act with the purpose of generating returns for their shareholders.
What law requires maximising profits? Indeed, how would any court judge where profits were maximised?
 
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Do you have some citation, other than a YouTube video, that "this was framed in such an inflammatory way that it is probably separated from the facts"?
There are estimates in EV circles that if we went green we would save xxx thousands life per year from cancer and what not due to pollution. We'd reduce our medical bills as well.

Does that mean oil company execs are murdering people? That's exactly how that post was stupidly framed.
 
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What law requires maximising profits? Indeed, how would any court judge where profits were maximised?

There is no law that requires maximizing profits per se. However, courts commonly apply the rule of shareholder primacy, which holds that directors and executives should prioritize the interests of shareholders over those of other stakeholders. This principle has been used to infer a duty to provide a return to shareholders, as the court ruled in the eBay Domestic Holdings, Inc. v. Newmark that I cited. But, since there is no law specifically requiring a return, courts do allow directors to act on the concerns of other stakeholders as long as the actions can be shown to be in the long-term interests of the corporation.

In the Craigslist case, the court didn't rule that Craigslist founders breached their fiduciary responsibility by failing to maximize profits. It ruled they were in error for refusal to pursue profits.

A court is unlikely to hold directors liable for failing to maximize profit, provided the directors can demonstrate they acted reasonably in pursuing shareholder interests. Courts grant boards of directors and executives broad discretion in making business decisions and typically avoid second-guessing errors in judgment or subjective opinions. This discretion is protected by a legal principle known as the business judgment rule. Under this rule, courts will side with the directors as long as their decisions were made in good faith, based on sufficient information and rational analysis, and with the genuine belief that they were acting in the best interests of the company.
 
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Ranked Choice Voting would solve so much

Which is why it's fought against by those currently with power (bi-partisan)

I'm not sure it would solve much. It might make for different problems. But it at least has the potential to make for a more diverse set of choices.

Nevada had ranked-choice voting on the ballot last November. The ads against it were both funny and sad. The main arguments were 1) voters would have to learn about too many candidates, and 2) it's difficult and confusing. In other words, voters are too stupid to exercise their franchise responsibly and would get confused if the choice wasn't simply R vs. D. Sadly, the initiative was defeated because both parties were mobilized against it.
 
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Is it safe to come out yet? I heard screaming, again. That poor woman from 2017 didn't age well!

Folks need to stop saying “TDS”

There is no “derangement”

Oh, but there most certainly is!

You're totally missing the point
It's not about visiting a President or even donating to them

It's about this particular one

This is a comical take.

I am not claiming politics is free from corruption, in fact I would say exactly the opposite, corruption in government has been around since the concept of government was formed. Where TDS comes into play, is the blind criticism of anything coming from only one side of the fence.

What about a president that:
  • Wouldn't acknowledge his own grandchild.
  • Was very clearly mentally diminished but propped up by everyone from his family, close circle, administration, party and the whole of legacy media.
  • Repeatedly told stories that never happened but claimed them as fact.
  • Has an addict son who was on the board of a foreign energy company why? Was it his expertise with prostitutes or crack that qualified him for that position? His father is a much more likely qualification.
  • Remember 10% for the "big guy"?
  • Who led an administration that blatantly conspired with legacy and social media companies to crush any story that had the potential to damage his administration or stray from its narratives. The HB laptop story tops the list. Lab leak theory. Mask effectiveness, etc.
  • Lost a prior attempt to run for president because of plagiarism.
  • The list goes on, and on, and on, and on.
Please do not pigeon hole this post as whataboutchulism, it isn't, this is a reminder of all the corruption from the "other side" that I never saw folks post about that are posting here and now.

The problem I have is that instead of trusting media, too many are now pivoting to "xyz podcaster"

I couldn't disagree more and I couldn't value or trust the legacy media less. Independent media is where its at.

The legacy media are tied to their corporate masters, ever wonder why almost all advertising during news programs comes from pharmaceutical companies?

I am not suggesting Tik-tok idiots but podcasts can be great, where else can you hear a politician speak for up to 3 hours instead of narrative supporting, heavily edited, sound bites. Another fine choice are independently supported news folks such as the ones found on Substack or their own outlets, Breaking Points stands out for me.
 
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Not at the exclusion of all other concerns
Actually, it is. It is the be-all-end-all principle for publicly traded companies. Companies engage in behaviors that might seem altruistic to you on their face because implicitly those behaviors are also in shareholders' long-term best interests. It's not profit-reducing benevolence. A Board of Directors has 3 duties — duty of care, duty of loyalty, and duty of obedience — but they all roll up as principles supporting fiduciary duty.

Pretty much any argument you might make about "well they have to do X," if accurate, will have some relationship to fiduciary duty. It's axiomatic. It's the number 1 difference between publicly traded companies and private ones. Reasonable people can and do debate whether individual actions are in the company's best interests, but that's inherently in the gray area. Not every business decision gets run through an NPV analysis. Most, in fact, aren't. And that's where executives come in. They are empowered — and paid — to exercise their judgment.

I never said it wasn’t a no-brainer, or that I didn’t like it. I said there is no law requiring employees to spend their own money for the companies interest…an employees personal money is off limits to the publicly traded company…

You are spreading blatant falsehoods with this claim of legality.

And wow - you are so sure you know my feelings, you aren’t even reading my posts…please try to do better.
"Blatant falsehoods with this claim of legality."

Fascinating. Please point us to the statute or case law stating or even suggesting that donations to inaugural committees are considered "bribes" and thus illegal. Take your time. I'll wait!

Also, of course there's no law requiring employees to spend their own money on donations or contributions. Don't be silly. No one suggested that there is. I certainly did not. It's rather ironic that it's you who clearly didn't read what I wrote. I'll refer you back to the second paragraph of my Friday afternoon post.

Right, but if they are accused of giving money away needlessly, they have to prove that a certain donation paid off.

How are they going to prove that giving money to Trump “paid off”? They can’t prove that. They will never be able to prove that. (Even if it did).

Seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen…which is probably why Apple didn’t donate any money to Trump…

Um. There's no burden of "proof" for each and every individual decision. That's not how it works. If it did, can you imagine how much the courts would be jammed? That would of course be insane. Fortunately, as I said, it doesn't work out that way. A lawsuit about this would be laughably tossed out extremely early on in the process. Because this isn't new, and it's just the way things work out in the real world.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a big deal.
 
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Smart man. He’s going to be in a difficult spot when the China tariffs affect future iPhone releases and by doing things like this I’m sure it will put him in Trump’s good graces to the point of being granted an exception from the new rules.

All the people bitching and groveling in these comments prove what we now know about politics and business at the highest level: they play 4-D chess while we play checkers. Congratulations to all of you and your respective “teams” to which you’ve chosen to pledge your unwavering allegiance. I’m sure the elitists you serve are thrilled to see how you’re helping things continue exactly as planned.
 
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Please do not pigeon hole this post as whataboutchulism, it isn't, this is a reminder of all the corruption from the "other side" that I never saw folks post about that are posting here and now.

When someone argues that a candidate is unfit for a particular reason, pointing to a defect in the other side is exactly whataboutism. You can dress it up as a "reminder" and think you've justified it, but it is what it is. As the old saying goes two wrongs don't make a right.

Trump is a grifter and a convicted felon. That is true and isn't changed even if there were a dungeon in a pizza parlor visited by Hillary Clinton. One person's faults, real or perceived, do not whitewash the faults of another.
 
When someone argues that a candidate is unfit for a particular reason, pointing to a defect in the other side is exactly whataboutism. You can dress it up as a "reminder" and think you've justified it, but it is what it is. As the old saying goes two wrongs don't make a right.

Trump is a grifter and a convicted felon. That is true and isn't changed even if there were a dungeon in a pizza parlor visited by Hillary Clinton. One person's faults, real or perceived, do not whitewash the faults of another.

If that is all you have to say, you have proven my point, thanks.
 
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