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Apple courier (UberEats) stole 2 MacBooks I ordered. Apple will not help.
- Thread starter Six0Four
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In the US, with the evidence suggested in this thread, this would be a winning case in small claims court. You fill out a complaint, serve Apple, a tell your story to a judge on your court date.
Why are you bothering with Apple anymore? Apple has ****ed you. Sue them in your country’s version of small claims court.
Why are you bothering with Apple anymore? Apple has ****ed you. Sue them in your country’s version of small claims court.
Yes, but I recommend to get a lawyer to handle this for OP.
There are lawyers, that do this Pro Bono - find one.
In the US, no lawyer will do this for free. And, it’s not needed. This is an easy one to prove given the facts. It’s what small claims court was made for - to level the playing field.
But, if Apple is doing this repeatedly, there maybe a class action. In that case the lawyer would be free.
In any case, if it were me, I’d be spending less time complaining on MacRumors and more time researching my jurisdiction’s consumer protection laws and small claims procedures.
Good that OP lives in Canada then.
Pro Bono Canada – Promoting Pro Bono & Increasing Access to Justice
probonocanada.org
Winning in Small Claims Court and collecting the money owed to you are two different things. The OP will have to research the situation in Alberta, but the following is what I found concerning Ontario. This information may or may not still be valid in 2024.
Enforcing judgments
If the debtor does not make the payments ordered, there are steps you can take to collect the money or goods owed to you. This process is called enforcing the judgment. It is important to note that the process of actually collecting your money is not the court’s responsibility. It is up to you, the creditor, to determine the best way to enforce judgment and to use the procedures and tools in place for collection.
You have two options for attempting to collect what a small claims court judge deems that you are entitled to:
Enforcing judgments
If the debtor does not make the payments ordered, there are steps you can take to collect the money or goods owed to you. This process is called enforcing the judgment. It is important to note that the process of actually collecting your money is not the court’s responsibility. It is up to you, the creditor, to determine the best way to enforce judgment and to use the procedures and tools in place for collection.
You have two options for attempting to collect what a small claims court judge deems that you are entitled to:
- Garnishment of wages or bank accounts
- Seizure and sale of personal property (i.e. motor vehicle, snowmobile or boat), or a registration against land
All the more reason to pursue a government remedy. Every country in the world seems to have better consumer protection laws than the US.Good that OP lives in Canada then.
Pro Bono Canada – Promoting Pro Bono & Increasing Access to Justice
Given the facts here, someone needs to hold Apple accountable.
Ya but “Complaining” on Macrumors takes 10 minutes a day. It’s worth it to spread awareness.
As for going to small claims court, I can do both.
Also not dealing with Apple anymore, haven’t spoken to them in weeks. It’s my bank and the Police only. I have to see the chargeback through. If the chargeback fails then I go to small claims court and the news. If the chargeback is a success I go to the news. All I wanted from Apple was some respect and a proper investigation by a human.
That is the troubling thing here. We have fallen a long ways from the days in the mid 2010s when I took my Macbook Pro at the time to the Cherry Creek, CO Apple store on a business trip. I had it back in 48 hours, and they replaced not just the battery, but the entire bottom casing for free--even though it was out of warranty.
Now they can't even be bothered to deal with this situation in a legitimate fashion, much less go above and beyond like they used to.
Very very troubling. I do not care what "the shareholders" say or how big Apple is now, but the buck stops at the top. Tim is responsible for all decisions made or not made and the desire or no interest in righting wrongs falls on him.
Just a little info on what’s going on with the Police. Since I initially filed the report 1.5 months ago they did come to interview me. We spoke for a while. They were taking pictures of info regarding the order off of my phone. They gave me an email address to send in all my documents that I have continually done so as more info comes in. Since then they have called me a few times and emailed me a few times.
I live Downtown in an average sized city in Canada and like many other cities in North America there is a ton of crime especially Downtown where these cops patrol. One of the worst in Canada. I feel like putting a ton of man hours into a theft under 5k isn’t feasible for city cops. Part of me does wish the Police could do a bit more in terms of investigating the driver but on the other hand I’m thankful that they are helping defend me when it comes to Apple and Visa if need be. At one point talking to the police over the phone he said something like the case was closed but he can always re-open it to help me out in terms of Visa or Apple needing to contact them. He even mentioned this is kind of a civil case. He wasn’t saying it as matter of fact but just that it kind of is and I can tell he is a bit confused by it. This is why I forwarded him the email I got from my bank of Apple disputing the chargeback. As much as I’d like for the driver to be investigated I am mostly concerned with getting my money back at the moment.
I know it’s hard to blindly trust someone complaining about a theft online and I try to give as much info and show as much “proof” as I can. But some things can’t and shouldn’t be disclosed here. Police emails, recordings of talking to Apple (legal in my province), screen recording of my phone records proving no incoming call from the buzzer, etc.
This thread has been 99% helpful and supportive and I appreciate it.
I live Downtown in an average sized city in Canada and like many other cities in North America there is a ton of crime especially Downtown where these cops patrol. One of the worst in Canada. I feel like putting a ton of man hours into a theft under 5k isn’t feasible for city cops. Part of me does wish the Police could do a bit more in terms of investigating the driver but on the other hand I’m thankful that they are helping defend me when it comes to Apple and Visa if need be. At one point talking to the police over the phone he said something like the case was closed but he can always re-open it to help me out in terms of Visa or Apple needing to contact them. He even mentioned this is kind of a civil case. He wasn’t saying it as matter of fact but just that it kind of is and I can tell he is a bit confused by it. This is why I forwarded him the email I got from my bank of Apple disputing the chargeback. As much as I’d like for the driver to be investigated I am mostly concerned with getting my money back at the moment.
I know it’s hard to blindly trust someone complaining about a theft online and I try to give as much info and show as much “proof” as I can. But some things can’t and shouldn’t be disclosed here. Police emails, recordings of talking to Apple (legal in my province), screen recording of my phone records proving no incoming call from the buzzer, etc.
This thread has been 99% helpful and supportive and I appreciate it.
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Unfortunately for you. They’re not entirely wrong.
The MacBooks were stolen from apple. Not from you.
Your issue is essentially a civil contract dispute. You’re claim being that apple haven’t fulfilled, with their argument being they did.
I can see this ending up in small claims tbh
The MacBooks were stolen from apple. Not from you.
Your issue is essentially a civil contract dispute. You’re claim being that apple haven’t fulfilled, with their argument being they did.
I can see this ending up in small claims tbh
They are entirely wrong. This is only true if the chargeback is successful. Then the thief stole from Apple. Otherwise they stole from OP.
Looks like in Canada risk of loss remains with Apple until the goods are delivered to the customer. Title transfers when the goods are handed to the carrier. https://www.apple.com/ca/legal/sales-support/sales-policies/retail_ca.html
I do agree that this is probably going to get settled in civil court. I would continue down the path of chargeback, but be ready with evidence to back it up and be prepared to go to small claims.
On the 4th November, the OP wrote,
Does the police still consider that a crime has not been committed?
If the police had determined that a crime had not been committed, then what? Would the police remain on one case for eight weeks? I suggested that you seek legal advice and even provided links to pro bono legal advisors in Edmonton, but did you take any notice?
That train has left the station!
Does the police still consider that a crime has not been committed?
If the police had determined that a crime had not been committed, then what? Would the police remain on one case for eight weeks? I suggested that you seek legal advice and even provided links to pro bono legal advisors in Edmonton, but did you take any notice?
That train has left the station!
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They can’t have stolen from the OP. Because he never took delivery of them. They have never been his property.
OP, you've mentioned the media as a possible solution to getting some movement on your case. Here's a little encouragement for you:
www.yahoo.com
Key quote from the article: "She took her story to ABC Action News. Once the news team got involved, UPS promptly resolved her claim and sent her a reimbursement check. The shipping company has launched an investigation to determine what happened to the package."
Tampa woman claims UPS lost son’s $2K Macbook — then shipper said she’s making a ‘big deal’ over ‘one lost package’
It's not "just one lost package" to her.
Key quote from the article: "She took her story to ABC Action News. Once the news team got involved, UPS promptly resolved her claim and sent her a reimbursement check. The shipping company has launched an investigation to determine what happened to the package."
Which is why I say it should be Apple’s problem.
OP, you need to backup all data you have connected to your Apple account and dis-associate your Apple devices from your Apple ID if you haven't done so already. Apple will very likely disable your entire account once the chargeback's gone through. At that point all devices connected to this ID will become paperweights the next time they are reset as they will no longer pass the initial activation screen. Anything that requires the account/iCloud to change some settings will be blocked out.
You can then go to a store with the original receipts and have them disassociate the devices from the ID, but it's questionable how helpful they're gonna be when their internal systems tell them you supposedly owe them thousands.
Customers in similar situations have been completely cut off from accessing vital services when they for example had both their e-mail (Gmail) and phone (Google Fi) through Google and Google disabled all their accounts. Apple isn't a phone service provider but they do offer e-mail.
In my experience you have 2 big entities coming head to head here and the customer might actually end up getting screwed. The reason being that any bank worth their salt will have to side with their customer if the seller does not provide actual proof of delivery. If there is a signature that does not match what OP has on record with their bank then the only reasonable choice for the bank is to put the trust in their own customer and return the money.
...except that they'd either be taking the money back from Apple's payment processor which is not something banks "enjoy" doing, alternatively they'd have to refund it out of their own pocket.
What I'm saying is that Apple has a lot of influence and if banks were able to routinely get their customers money back from Apple then Apple will likely see this "fixed" in some way. It is really unfortunate that Apple is blocking this so much as it would save you a lot of headaches moving forward. Apple will likely attempt to get the money back as well through debt collections. But I understand that is really out of your hands.
My experience with Apple support is that you sometimes get someone on the line who actually knows what's up and can fix things. When I say sometimes I mean over the course of a few weeks with daily attempts calling. I understand it's not something anyone sane would want to do. And questionable if it can help as your account's certainly flagged in deep red for the chargeback attempt.
You can then go to a store with the original receipts and have them disassociate the devices from the ID, but it's questionable how helpful they're gonna be when their internal systems tell them you supposedly owe them thousands.
Customers in similar situations have been completely cut off from accessing vital services when they for example had both their e-mail (Gmail) and phone (Google Fi) through Google and Google disabled all their accounts. Apple isn't a phone service provider but they do offer e-mail.
In my experience you have 2 big entities coming head to head here and the customer might actually end up getting screwed. The reason being that any bank worth their salt will have to side with their customer if the seller does not provide actual proof of delivery. If there is a signature that does not match what OP has on record with their bank then the only reasonable choice for the bank is to put the trust in their own customer and return the money.
...except that they'd either be taking the money back from Apple's payment processor which is not something banks "enjoy" doing, alternatively they'd have to refund it out of their own pocket.
What I'm saying is that Apple has a lot of influence and if banks were able to routinely get their customers money back from Apple then Apple will likely see this "fixed" in some way. It is really unfortunate that Apple is blocking this so much as it would save you a lot of headaches moving forward. Apple will likely attempt to get the money back as well through debt collections. But I understand that is really out of your hands.
My experience with Apple support is that you sometimes get someone on the line who actually knows what's up and can fix things. When I say sometimes I mean over the course of a few weeks with daily attempts calling. I understand it's not something anyone sane would want to do. And questionable if it can help as your account's certainly flagged in deep red for the chargeback attempt.
Done and done. I recommend it as well as there just isn't any point to that specific convo going in circles.
Excellent advice about his account(s). Better to backup now because it will get locked down without warning.
Are you kidding? Is this a joke post or real? Apple bricks your existing devices if you hit them with a chargeback?!
A dispute on a transaction conducted by two independent parties (your merchant bank and the corresponding bank) that concludes in your favour is a fully legal, normal process. Apple cannot legally hit you by bricking other things you own or denying you service on this basis. Has this really happened and are there full records of the facts of these cases that one can review?
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Hey pal thanks a lot for the advice.
All the devices that were connected to that Apple ID have been signed out of and reset and a couple have even been sold. If signed out and reset are you saying Apple could still block the device from a new owner activating it? This seems very illegal.
Thankfully always used Gmail but unfortunately will have to probably kiss my iMessages goodbye. Already removed my photos which really was the only important service I had with Apple.
If Apple loses this dispute, at what point will someone at Apple sit down and look at the situation and say maybe this person didn’t get their package. Is Apple at all interested in the truth or are they only concerned with getting the money back?
FWIW, if what the other poster said is true, it’s such an obvious abuse that I would think you would have a pretty good case to seek further damages.
As for the truth, I doubt they’re after that based on the facts you’ve presented. It seems that they have very little invested in making sure you actually got your product. Outside of a legal action, I don’t see how you ever find out what they’re basing their decisions on. I’m pretty disgusted by the whole thing to be honest.
I’ve heard of disabling your iCloud account but bricking your device you paid for? Only time I’ve heard of this is if your phone is on contract through a carrier and you don’t pay the bill.