Apple did not properly test or warn new buyers of severe M1 Issues

[pistonpilot]

Well, to be fair, Apple really prefers not to external boot these days. They do this for security reasons. It's likely they probably did test this (for security reasons) but assumed (hence the issue) you would boot from a bootable Arm copy of macOS not Intel. They would have assumed that would be known you can't do that. But again, an assumption that might not be clear to everyone.

Now training, who knows. The people you spoke to probably didn't know what to say. I guessing at this point.

Who are you being fair to, Apple or the consumer? It still appears you are apologizing for Apple.

 

[pistonpilot]

I apologise for nobody.
If you were given bad information that's unfortunate, but that does happen.
However, if you had looked in this very forum sub-section for the last few weeks you would have seen that your intended use case was not viable or at least not straightforward.
After all, it's your money you were spending and the onus is on you to select the right machine for your intended use.

I was given bad information from two tier 2 support techs on two separate calls.

Again, more blame to me.

Are you seriously telling me that I should have looked here and not at the manufacturer itself?

Preposterous.

 

[Quackers]

I was given bad information from two tier 2 support techs on two separate calls.

Again, more blame to me.

Are you seriously telling me that I should have looked here and not at the manufacturer itself?

Preposterous.

Not preposterous at all. It's called research.
It was one of many options you had before you bought.

 

[pistonpilot]

Not preposterous at all. It's called research.
It was one of many options you had before you bought.

I see, I should rely on the majority here instead of Apple? Most of the posters here don't properly read nor understand the original post.

 

[460works]

There are two issues. The first, is getting an external drive created on the M1 Mac Mini to boot.

The second would be intel/Arm compatibility. Apple can solve this by creating a utility available on both Intel and Arm to make the device bootable by the system chosen. I can clone boot and run my Intel iMac from the external SSD.

If I want to boot the drive on the M1, I should be able to mount the drive and run a utility on the M1 to make it bootable.

Make an M1 boot disk . . .

How I successfully Made an M1 External Bo… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

How to boot an Apple Silicon Mac from an external drive | AppleInsider

If you have bought an Apple Silicon Mac or MacBook but need to upgrade your storage without buying a brand new device, you can set up your Mac to run from an external drive. Here's how to boot macOS Monterey using external storage on the new Mac lineup.

appleinsider.com

 

[xylitol]

What are the other "things about the M1 that have turned out to be entirely false"?

 

[macintoshmac]

I already own an Intel iMac. I purchased a Mac Mini M1 for two specific reasons one of which was to provide my 13-year-old with a new computer. The other issue was a backup system that I could easily switch to should my main iMac need repair.

I was booting from a high-speed external SSD instead of the internal Fusion Drive. I wanted to be able to immediately boot the M1 Mini from my external drive in case of failure of my iMac or having it not available for repair.

This does not work. I am now finding that a bootable external drive created on either the M1 (if you are successful) or the iMac are not bootable on the other.

I don't consider this to be a desirable feature. It has negated my original plan for the M1 Mini.

I got no warning from Apple, and I got plenty of misinformation from Apple tier 2 support people who told me many things about the M1 that have turned out to be entirely false.

I am beyond the 2-week return window.

I think Apple is derelict in their testing of the M1 and in their information giving for the new chip.

I am inclined to say that part of buying an Apple is the fact that we beta test their hardware and software and pay them for that privilege instead of the other way round. It just is. That said, there is the fact that no amount of testing is going to make a perfect product. Things will have gone unnoticed.

Now, what you are suggesting as Apple's fault is, frankly, not their fault. You are trying to boot a different architecture using a different architecture. Now, should Apple have thought about common user's lack of technical expertise where they just want things to work? Sure. That was the premise they were built upon - computers for the "rest of us" they said.

It could be that call centre people are not trained well enough (as you say there are things they said that are not true) and people here will lambast you for not providing specifics (because providing specifics helps them understand better and even allay their own fears and insecurities about their systems).

You just assumed things will work, as Apple would like you to think about them. You'll be wiser next time and discuss your requirements out either on this forum or with Apple Store folks before you go and spend your money on something that might be as good as dud for your specific requirements.

 

[pistonpilot]

Make an M1 boot disk . . .

How I successfully Made an M1 External Bo… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

How to boot an Apple Silicon Mac from an external drive | AppleInsider

If you have bought an Apple Silicon Mac or MacBook but need to upgrade your storage without buying a brand new device, you can set up your Mac to run from an external drive. Here's how to boot macOS Monterey using external storage on the new Mac lineup.

appleinsider.com

Wow. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, I feel like Sisyphus. I want to boot from intel and Arm with the same drive.

 

[Quackers]

I see, I should rely on the majority here instead of Apple? Most of the posters here don't properly read nor understand the original post.

If you'd read some of the threads on here you'd have seen that what you wanted to do was not viable. This was one of the many options that were available to you to learn more about the M1.
It is unfortunate that you seem to have had bad information from Apple tier 2, but that was presumably after you'd bought your machine and the mistake had been made.

 

[pistonpilot]

I am inclined to say that part of buying an Apple is the fact that we beta test their hardware and software and pay them for that privilege instead of the other way round. It just is. That said, there is the fact that no amount of testing is going to make a perfect product. Things will have gone unnoticed.

Now, what you are suggesting as Apple's fault is, frankly, not their fault. You are trying to boot a different architecture using a different architecture. Now, should Apple have thought about common user's lack of technical expertise where they just want things to work? Sure. That was the premise they were built upon - computers for the "rest of us" they said.

It could be that call centre people are not trained well enough (as you say there are things they said that are not true) and people here will lambast you for not providing specifics (because providing specifics helps them understand better and even allay their own fears and insecurities about their systems).

You just assumed things will work, as Apple would like you to think about them. You'll be wiser next time and discuss your requirements out either on this forum or with Apple Store folks before you go and spend your money on something that might be as good as dud for your specific requirements.

4 paragraphs and not one of them is correct.

I assumed nothing, I asked.

You are apologizing for Apple. Just admit it and we can all move on.

 

[pistonpilot]

You appear to be very combative and at times a little insulting - even to people who have tried to help you.
If you'd read some of the threads on here you'd have seen that what you wanted to do was not viable. This was one of the many options that were available to you to learn more about the M1.
It is unfortunate that you seem to have had bad information from Apple tier 2, but that was presumably after you'd bought your machine and the mistake had been made.

You're wrong again. Of course, I have written here many times, that I consulted with Apple before buying.

 

[Quackers]

You're wrong again. Of course, I have written here many times, that I consulted with Apple before buying.

Not at all.
But anyway, you're welcome.

 

[abhi182]

Maybe I was given bad information? Why is it that so many of you have become apologists for Apple? Why is it my fault I bought a machine that won't serve my purpose when I was told that it would?

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you apologize for Apple and want to blame me.

I don't think anyone here is apologising on Apple's behalf.

1) Bad/Incorrect information was exchanged over a phone call - maybe they did not interpret your requirements correctly or perhaps you did not explain it well . Things like these do however happen with complicated technical conversations
Either way, it would be speculative to state which party (or both) was at fault.

Now let us for a second presume that it was indeed the L2 support team's fault.

2) Most users would however do some additional secondary research to see if the intended purchase fits the use case.
Given the M1 is a major architectural change, all the more reason to do so.

Having said that, While you did not do that, it doesn't necessarily mean you are at fault

But only if the first presumption is correct and there was unequivocal confirmation from L2 support that an Intel boot drive would work with an ARM chip (highly unlikely - but weird things can and do happen)

3) So one way or the other, you now have a machine that does not fit your intended usage.
You can choose to either return it
Or use an equally effective solution that would solve for the scenario you intend to solve for.
(i.e. let M1 boot off its own drive and use the external drive from the iMac as the data volume - thereby letting you resume your work exactly as it was as you left it on the other machine)

However you do not seem to be particularly willing to even explore that suggestion but would rather jump to the conclusion that people chipping in to suggest possible solutions are apple apologists instead

 

[pistonpilot]

I don't think anyone here is apologising on Apple's behalf.

You apologized in the first sentence.

1) Bad/Incorrect information was exchanged over a phone call - maybe they did not interpret your requirements correctly or perhaps you did not explain it well .

More apologizing for Apple. Two techs, two phone calls. And yet you again want to blame me.

3) So one way or the other, you now have a machine that does not fit your intended usage.
You can choose to either return it
Or use an equally effective solution that would solve for the scenario you intend to solve for.
(i.e. let M1 boot off its own drive and use the external drive from the iMac as the data volume - thereby letting you resume your work exactly as it was as you left it on the other machine)

That is not a solution.

 

[Machspeed007]

You're wrong again. Of course, I have written here many times, that I consulted with Apple before buying.

You are an Apple apologist.

So the problem is not with the Mac Mini in itself but with Apple's tier 2.

You are basically complaining that you've bought a diesel car only to find out you can't use petrol with it, even though the car dealer said you could before buying. While I doubt that a tier 2 engineer would explicitly tell you can boot a M1 drive on an Intel platform and vice versa, there's nothing wrong with the M1 as it stands.

 

[460works]

Wow. Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, I feel like Sisyphus. I want to boot from intel and Arm with the same drive.

You may have to test and find out: Take an external hard drive, and set it up as having 2 partitions - thus potentially 2 boot partitions.

You might succeed with that exploration.

But, from what I read, maybe 1.5 years ago, it sounded like APFS will insist on dominating an entire hard drive - when creating a bootable disk.

 

[pistonpilot]

So the problem is not with the Mac Mini in itself but with Apple's tier 2.

You are basically complaining that you've bought a diesel car only to find out you can't use petrol with it, even though the car dealer said you could before buying. While I doubt that a tier 2 engineer would explicitly tell you can boot a M1 drive on an Intel platform and vice versa, there's nothing wrong with the M1 as it stands.

Sure, it won't boot an external drive made on the M1 but other than that, it's just perfect.

It is buggy.

 

[pistonpilot]

You may have to test and find out: Take an external hard drive, and set it up as having 2 partitions - thus potentially 2 boot partitions.

You might succeed with that exploration.

But, from what I read, maybe 1.5 years ago, it sounded like APFS will insist on dominating an entire hard drive - when creating a bootable disk.

It's not clear what it is doing. What is clear, is that I have a case with the Engineers at Apple for 2 weeks and they are still guessing.

 

[pistonpilot]

So the problem is not with the Mac Mini in itself but with Apple's tier 2.

The problem is with both.

 

[Machspeed007]

Sure, it won't boot an external drive made on the M1 but other than that, it's just perfect.

It is buggy.

I see lots of guides on how to do that with a google research.
How to boot an Apple Silicon Mac from an external drive | AppleInsider

 

[pistonpilot]

I see lots of guides on how to do that with a google research.
How to boot an Apple Silicon Mac from an external drive | AppleInsider

I am well aware of this article. It assumes you have a dedicated Thunderbolt drive. It's not a solution for most of us.

 

[theSeb]

I am well aware of this article. It assumes you have a dedicated Thunderbolt drive. It's not a solution for most of us.

Agreed. Apple should give you a free one. Did you speak to the manager, or corporate?

 

[Bob_DM]

(i.e. let M1 boot off its own drive and use the external drive from the iMac as the data volume - thereby letting you resume your work exactly as it was as you left it on the other machine)

 

[460works]

It's not clear what it is doing. What is clear, is that I have a case with the Engineers at Apple for 2 weeks and they are still guessing.

Before I fall out of my chair, by falling asleep . . .

Take an external hard drive and set it up, having only 2 partitions of equal size, and do that work while the external hard drive is connected to the M1.

Next, try to create a bootable partition - using 1 of the partitions on the external hard drive - again, doing the work while the external hard drive is connected to the M1.

That work will take some time.

When completed, and you are able to boot the M1 from the M1-bootable partition of the external hard drive . . . then you need to find out of the OTHER partition of the external hard drive, is, let us say, independent, and therefore potentially able to become the iMac-bootable partition.

You'll find out, by disconnecting the external hard drive from the M1, and then connecting the external hard drive to the iMac . . . and possibly you will have to erase the "independent" (so far) partition, using Disk Utility on the iMac.

And then see if you can use that partition - making it your iMac bootable partition.

 

[radus]

Before Apple decided to close their system using the so called T1-chip it was not a problem at all to use an external thunderbolt 2 drive to boot from different Macs.

We were able to use on drive to boot the Mac:
at work
at home
at the weekend place
and even a Macbook pro.
No time wasted to synchronize what ever - no sync failures and errors.

One fast external boot drive for all Macs owned would be the nearly perfect solution.
And the perfect solution would be if that drive is called "iPhone".