Apple Discusses Push Towards High-End Mac Gaming in New Interview

[MacDaddyPanda]

Mac is too expensive for gaming. End of story.

Yeah but the type of person that would buy an Apple Computer would be the more likely target audience. That user is probably using Windows PC for their gaming needs. If Apple could achieve parity to a PC I'd bet they'd finally ditch the Windows machine. I know I'd consider that. But I'll probably be too old to care by then, lol.

 

[xnu]

Not sure about the market, because if you are a gamer you get either a console or a PC, but the M3 next gen GPU has been a push towards a better gaming on a SoC platform. Sure, I don’t think it is competing against PCs with dedicated GPUs, but among the platforms with integrated graphics, Apple is definitely doing a great job.

The M4 or M5 are going to be excellent platforms to port games to. And with more M3, M4 and M5 devices out there, developers will have more interest in developing for them.

It is the college student getting a laptop, it is marketing. "The story includes commentary from Apple marketing managers Gordon Keppel and Leland Martin." It is cheaper to have an article written every year stating "this year Apple get serious about gaming" than to actually support developers, look at how they are treated in the app store. Gaming is not in Apples DNA.

 

[toobravetosave]

delusional on gaming as usual

 

[haydn!]

Whilst they’ve certainly made it easier to port games across their own eco-system. The reality remains, some games just aren’t cut out for mobile and so, those publishers (of games best played on notebooks/desktops) still face the challenge of developing games for what is essentially a small market. If Apple is serious about making Mac a contender for heavy duty gamers, they also need to be looking at what tools they could develop/share to help port games from Windows to Mac quicker and easier.

 

[tomtad]

Introducing the Pippin II game console.
Or is it iPippin?

Pippin Pro

 

[ric22]

Apple has had its up the rear end regarding games on laptops and desktops for ages now, and they seem to have been blind the whole time.

Being unable to upgrade components while also pricing upgrades to outrageous levels is one hurdle. Software wise it's a PITA due to the toolchain needed if Xcode is being utilized in any way. Then you have upgrades and lack of backwards compatability (though should be mostly OK these days) to throw in there also.

High end gaming requires good hardware, and good hardware is quite costly on a Mac although the baseline performance is often quite good. One could also throw in the mix gaming monitors and how macOS looks terrible on non-retina displays, though not the biggest issue for gaming in that sense.

Apple have never understood this segment and rather boxed things in too much, especially after the Intel era. It annoyed me so much that they couldn't at least produce a mid-tower for power users instead of having Mac Pros, though I understand the segmentation. They had plenty of chances of being a bit more nice to users overall, making it easy and interesting for tinkerers to go over to the Mac, but they squandered it every time.

People aren't buying Macs to play games, that is just incidental, and until they really make enourmous strides with certain issues, especially cost of upgrades and even being able to upgrade yourself even, they won't make a dent at all. The "gamer" enthusiast has always wanted to change components themselves, I have been one of them for a long time, and Mac is laughable and antithetical to what end users want regarding gaming. If they don't mess around with hardware, they buy a console.

I fully agree with all of that. The only way to get a graphically powerful Mac is to buy a Max or Ultra chip, which is prohibitively expensive and gives you a lot of multi core CPU performance that is wasted on gamers. CPU and graphics tethered together is a mess for wannabe Apple gamers.

 

[Zoolook]

I'm not sure they should use The Medium as an example of the Game Porting Toolkit being put to good use, the performance is absolutely atrocious.

Lies of P on the other hand runs like a dream, so does Grid Legends and RE4.

 

[ric22]

Still a niche platform. Yep a better one but sells 10x the number of cards per year as Mac’s and they run circles around the chips. Apple is either going to have to pay to port or support egpus if they’re serious about it.

I don't know why you got downvoted for this. Apple literally will have to pay to port or support eGPUs, as you say.

 

[Ethosik]

Expensive? Perhaps, but considering some rigs & bto's can get into the $3-4-5k range the pricing isn't the issue.

The main issue why Macs aren't great for gaming is that they allow for no expandability down the line unless (like Apple is hoping) you consider buying a whole new Mac "upgrading/expanding" your gaming rig.

That’s not the issue. Consoles don’t allow this and they last a good 5-7 or 8 years. I went from a GTX 1080 to a 4090 in my gaming rig. I only updated because I went from a 5th gen i7 to the 13900k. I have my old system in my lab as a test bench. It can still play games well at 1080p. And the GTX 1080 came out in 2016.

 

[jimbobb24]

Still a niche platform. Yep a better one but sells 10x the number of cards per year as Mac’s and they run circles around the chips. Apple is either going to have to pay to port or support egpus if they’re serious about it.

The market is niche. Not clear why apple would invest here other than bragging rights. And they can solve the problem....just have the Mac Pro take video cards. Done.

The thing they could do if they were serious about gaming is lies Microsoft and Sony stream their games on the Apple TV. That would be amazing.

 

[jimbobb24]

It's not physically complicated, but support is an issue if the that's important to you, and the hardware isn't the complicated part; installing the OS, finding drivers, finding out why said driver is conflicting with something else, why is there an exclamation point in device manager and I can't figure out what it is, etc.. It can be difficult to diagnose issues or incompatibilities without experience

My cousin, the only PC gamer I know, opted to buy a pre-built system recently because he wanted to spend zero minutes building or supporting his system. He's been building his computers for 20 years. Plug-in and go.

I used to build all my computers too, since the mid 90s, then one day I just grew tired of it and don't bother now, plus at this point, I only use laptops.

Before I became a Mac shop I built my own PCs. I considering building a new one for generative AI but in the end....probably just going to buy a pre-made machine and dual boot windows and linux. Too old and too busy to mess around with component shopping.

 

[Xenobius]

Expensive? Perhaps, but considering some rigs & bto's can get into the $3-4-5k range the pricing isn't the issue.

Most gaming computers have low-mid components. The ten most popular graphics cards in November 2023 according to Steam:

There is no place for Apple in a computer gaming market. Macs are the tools for work. If someone wants to relax after work then buy a Playstation.

 

[icanhazapple]

Make a game.

Make. A game.

Literally everything Apple says is sugary nonsense until the day they make a game.

Epic sells a game engine. They make a game. It allows them to both improve the engine and test its versatility.

Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all make game platforms. They all make games. It's what allows them to understand the difficulties conceptually.

Apple makes zero games. They have zero skin in the game that is producing game products. That lends them zero credibility in the field, and that won't change until they do.

If Apple can sink/waste hundreds of millions to make TV shows that only serve to bolster Tim's ego (absolutely none of these shows outside of Ted Lasso break even - they're done so that Apple Media Execs and Tim can have something to talk about with their friends that work in Entertainment / they can go attend the award show circuit), then yes - Apple should sink a couple hundred million into making a game, which will improve Metal / their APIs for other developers.

 

[JinxVi]

$3.6 billion from mobile drek ********. Apple isn't a gaming company so much as they're a low-end street corner crack dealer. Call me when some AAA games start making it to the Mac, and no, 4-5 year old Mac ports do not qualify as "AAA"

Mobile is the future. And Windows PCs don't qualify as Triple-A either. You've always got to make compromises when you use a general purpose computer for gaming. There's a reason why Sony with its Playstation is a larger gaming company than Apple and Microsoft. The interesting player here is Tencent, they are already fully mobile, know how to manage a player community and grow their business beyond one type of AAA games into other art forms.

Tencent ➞ Riot Games ➞ League of Legends ➞ Legends of Runeterra ➞ Arcane

 

[magbarn]

🤨 Why would it be $500? Does a Mac mini include a best in class touch screen AMOLED display? Why would it be “poverty spec?” Because then you could feel justified in your $4000 dust factory incel-rig with glowing lights and enough exhaust to aspirate a truck engine? What you are saying here is “Apple will never make a $1000 device for $500.” The Mac mini isn’t anywhere near as portable, doesn’t run iOS and is nowhere near as consumption oriented as a game console. All of the framework for this is already there, you don’t even need to have that much of an imagination to put it together. Look at the Deck. You step outside of the gaming element of it and it’s a kludge because Linux has nowhere near the level of user friendly touch interface that iOS allows for. The silicon in the 15 Pros is if not there, damn close. A gaming device would allow for better cooling, so performance could be pushed farther. None of this is to say anything of the built in cellular connectivity. I mean, you can feel about it how ever you want, but it’s all there. Apple won’t do it because of the courage it entails but it’s there 😂.

What I meant to say is that if Apple ever releases a console device that plays locally instead of streaming is that it will either be absurdly priced or the base model will have low specs. The iPad is an IOS device and it doesn't get any discounts for being so as it's basically priced even more than the Mac mini when you factor in ram and storage space. You're telling me Apple will release an A17 equipped console with 16gb of ram and 1TB of storage at the price of $500 to compete with the PS5/XSX? Try $999, which means it's DOA vs the PS6/Xbox next gen.

Edit:
I guess we're talking about 2 separate things. I'm alluding to an Apple home console while you're talking about an Apple "Deck". That would be even more absurdly priced as once again, Apple doesn't give discounts and prices everything at premium levels which means you're not getting a 1TB OLED device for $650 considering an iPad Air already is at $749 with just a paltry 256gb of storage which won't work on a portable gaming device.

 

[Pezimak]

It is the college student getting a laptop, it is marketing. "The story includes commentary from Apple marketing managers Gordon Keppel and Leland Martin." It is cheaper to have an article written every year stating "this year Apple get serious about gaming" than to actually support developers, look at how they are treated in the app store. Gaming is not in Apples DNA.

Nope, hence why all the 'Mac Setup' photos in Reddit forums tend to have a PS5 or Switch in their desks too. The odd few with a gaming PC. They don't buy Macs to game on.

This whole thing is hilarious, Apple will never pay any publisher to exclusively make games for Metal, their market penetration with Apple silicon Macs that can run games decently is tiny compared to PC's, and consoles and now handheld PC consoles.
Gabe Newel said it took years for Apple to allow Steam on the Mac, only to now kill it by dropping 32 BIT support.

Apple wants to as per usual control every aspect of the games on Mac and it just won't be able to, the market isn't designed like that.

It's just as you said, a marketing gimmick they roll out every year.

 

[Pezimak]

Apple actually has a huge portion of the gaming market on iOS games.

I would like see all iOS games to be able to be loaded and played on Macs.

Exactly, they already have a bit of a monopoly in the biggest games market in the planet, taking a 15 to 30% cut of every purchase made earning them billions annually. Try as they might though they won't be able to apply the same model to the PC games market.

 

[Pezimak]

Even Blizzard seem to have abandoned Mac for their new releases. Diablo IV, Diablo Immortal, and Overwatch 2 are all unavailable on Mac with no sign of that ever changing. It's a shame because in the past, Mac always used to be treated as a tier-1 platform by Blizzard.

Diablo Immortal is a mobile game and has been available on iOS since it launched? Why would they bring it to the Mac, in fact will it not work on the Mac through that feature of Mac OS that runs iOS apps and games?

 

[Rafterman]

Apple actually has a huge portion of the gaming market on iOS games.

I would like see all iOS games to be able to be loaded and played on Macs.

Many can be played on Macs now. But more lighter fair. E.g., I play Wordmaster Pro on my Mac (a Scrabble clone). But high end games haven't been sanctioned for Mac use yet by developers, which is too bad. Not sure what the resistance is.

 

[Egk]

Yeah but the type of person that would buy an Apple Computer would be the more likely target audience. That user is probably using Windows PC for their gaming needs. If Apple could achieve parity to a PC I'd bet they'd finally ditch the Windows machine. I know I'd consider that. But I'll probably be too old to care by then, lol.

While that might be the case, it doesn't do anything about having more people engaged with gaming on a Mac. The developer experience is still terrible for people making multi-platform games to care about actually supporting the Mac due to the low volume of people playing.

 

[Egk]

Mobile is the future. And Windows PCs don't qualify as Triple-A either. You've always got to make compromises when you use a general purpose computer for gaming. There's a reason why Sony with its Playstation is a larger gaming company than Apple and Microsoft. The interesting player here is Tencent, they are already fully mobile, know how to manage a player community and grow their business beyond one type of AAA games into other art forms.

Mobile (as in Phones) is not the future until I can dock it to a display with great performance. Until that happens, which it won't for a long time, open systems and laptop / desktops will still be its own thing. Mobile is the future, but that kind of future that Apple wants, to have a certain control, is far away.

 

[bradman83]

Supposedly the GameCube was an overclocked N64.

Here's a random interesting factoid: the GameCube was more akin to an underclocked iMac than an overclocked N64. The Gekko CPU inside the GameCube is a variant of the PowerPC 750cxe chip that was found in the last generation of G3 iMac. Whereas the chips in those iMacs ran at clock speeds of 500-700 MHz, the Gekko chip inside the GameCube ran at 486 MHz, likely to keep power and thermals down. (The N64 ran off of an NEC R4300 at a screaming 90 MHz).

 

[Homy]

Even Blizzard seem to have abandoned Mac for their new releases. Diablo IV, Diablo Immortal, and Overwatch 2 are all unavailable on Mac with no sign of that ever changing. It's a shame because in the past, Mac always used to be treated as a tier-1 platform by Blizzard.

You mean the same Overwatch 2 with "Overwhelmingly Negative" reviews on Steam that even Blizzard themselves declared as a flop?

And who needs Diablo 4 when we’re getting the superior PoE 2 on Mac for free? Just compare the boss fights. Diablo 4 looks so messy with all the distracting scores and words that show up and cover the action making it hard to distinguish the characters and the action.

 

[JinxVi]

Mobile (as in Phones) is not the future until I can dock it to a display with great performance.

It's just a figure of speech. Of course mobile is already here as the biggest gaming market by far. I just mean to say, its importance will only grow going forward. Apple is in a great position as a mobile gaming platform, now it needs to leverage this position to improve Mac gaming. Growth will not come from porting over the leftovers of the ever shrinking PC market.

 

[EntropyQ3]

If Apple is serious about making Mac a contender for heavy duty gamers, they also need to be looking at what tools they could develop/share to help port games from Windows to Mac quicker and easier.

Heavy duty gamers isn’t and cannot be the target market. The target market are those who like to chill a bit with gaming on their Mac.

There is no way, even if they bought EA and Ubisoft (to the tune of a hundred billion or so) that they would have either the breadth or the back catalog of Windows or the consoles. The people who care about that will either choose a Windows box or supplement their Mac with a console. It’s the more average person that is the target - those who need a computer in any circumstance, and who are more likely to pick a Mac if there is a decent (not awesome) catalog of games for the platform.

This mirrors iOS. IPhones are not bought primarily for gaming, but it is still the largest grossing gaming platform in existance.