MP 7,1 Apple has lost the plot on the pro market

[th0masp]

he died October 2011 and was still heavily involved in the company until his death, including their upcoming products. There is no way he didn’t know about the cylindrical Mac Pro—and let’s be honest, it’s a Jobs product through and through. Apple made the G4 Cube because it appealed to Jobs, the 6,1 Mac Pro is just the Cube 2.0.

and yeah, people were worried about the Mac Pro back then, too. They were slow to update the product, even to Nehalem in 2009.

I remember that well. In late 2009 I was trying to decide between either buying a custom PC or go with a Mac Pro cheesegrater to be used exclusively as a Windows PC. Visiting forums like this one back in the day - it was all doom and gloom about the future of the MP.
And since they never set into an update rhythm and neither started to publish roadmaps it also hasn't changed a bit since.

Oh and I also am convinced that Jobs OK-ed the Trashcan. New daring form factor and all - and no slots either, how could he not have?

Let's be wrong together! ?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Yea, a lot of that going on. Take pride in it. Own it. That makes it extra special comrade.

 

[goMac]

Oh and I also am convinced that Jobs OK-ed the Trashcan. New daring form factor and all - and no slots either, how could he not have?

Jobs was definitely involved in the design of the trash can. The design was definitely being worked on before 2010, which is why they never bothered with changing much on the 2010.

I think the issue is Jobs may have canned the design in 2011 or 2012 when it became apparent what the issues were, but he was gone by then. Or maybe he would have loved the unique design too much. I dunno.

 

[fuchsdh]

Jobs was definitely involved in the design of the trash can. The design was definitely being worked on before 2010, which is why they never bothered with changing much on the 2010.

I think the issue is Jobs may have canned the design in 2011 or 2012 when it became apparent what the issues were, but he was gone by then. Or maybe he would have loved the unique design too much. I dunno.

The best thing you can say in the alternate Jobs world is that he would either have doubled down on the tube Mac Pro or axed it entirely. The man loved the Cube and still killed it within a year. Leaving the tube Mac Pro around with no updates and radio silence was absolutely the worst decision they could have made. Like others have mentioned, if they'd made a Broadwell Mac Pro I'd have jumped on, because while it came with limitations I still saw the appeal. But if Apple couldn't even demonstrate commitment, I'm surprised they ever sold enough that they kept on keeping on for years.

 

[OkiRun]

Trashcan Mac 2013 are selling and buying between USD 1,500 to 3,000 on eBay daily/weekly. Someone still likes the design.

 

[hans1972]

The Mac Pro died with Steve Jobs. He actually got it. Mac Pro is the big truck. Trucks cost a bit more, you know, but not 3x more.

I think Jobs groomed the wrong successor, but, you know, there was sort of a time crunch there I'd imagine.

Steve Jobs coined post-PC and talked about how computers like iPad would be the future. His dream computer was the iPad, not the Mac.

 

[hans1972]

I think Steve Jobs got it, because he sat in front of a Mac Pro (or Power Mac) and used that as his own workstation. Ancient pics of his really messy home office show that ;-)

"I'm trying to think of a good analogy. When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks. But as people moved more towards urban centers, people started to get into cars. I think PCs are going to be like trucks. Less people will need them. And this transformation is going to make some people uneasy... because the PC has taken us a long way. They were amazing. But it changes. Vested interests are going to change. And, I think we've embarked on that change. Is it the iPad? Who knows? Will it be next year or five years? ... We like to talk about the post-PC era, but when it really starts to happen, it's uncomfortable."
-Steve Jobs at the D8 conference

 

[mattspace]

"I'm trying to think of a good analogy. When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks. But as people moved more towards urban centers, people started to get into cars. I think PCs are going to be like trucks. Less people will need them. And this transformation is going to make some people uneasy... because the PC has taken us a long way. They were amazing. But it changes. Vested interests are going to change. And, I think we've embarked on that change. Is it the iPad? Who knows? Will it be next year or five years? ... We like to talk about the post-PC era, but when it really starts to happen, it's uncomfortable."
-Steve Jobs at the D8 conference

Except that Jobs was fundamentally wrong in his observation - trucks aren't going away as 1st world countries transition from agrarian through industrialised to urban societies. Trucks (and 4x4s in general) remain the most popular makes of vehicles (in most markets to an increasing degree), because they fulfil fundamental psychological needs in people.

Jobs being inhumanly wealthy and able to impulse-buy any rare-use capability any time he needed it, meant that he fundamentally didn't understand the human need in most people, that they want a truck-function they almost never use, so that it's always without a price-shock if they need to use it.

 

[the future]

Except that Jobs was fundamentally wrong in his observation - trucks aren't going away as 1st world countries transition from agrarian through industrialised to urban societies. Trucks (and 4x4s in general) remain the most popular makes of vehicles (in most markets to an increasing degree), because they fulfil fundamental psychological needs in people.

You‘re only talking about the US, right? Because in Europe (for example) you almost never see something like a F-150 on the streets.

 

[th0masp]

You‘re only talking about the US, right? Because in Europe (for example) you almost never see something like a F-150 on the streets.

But you do see trucks (commercial vehicles) and plenty of SUVs. The Trashcan seems like the equivalent of expecting a commercial contractor to show up for work with a Porsche Macan.

"Ok, so you couldn't bring the ladder - but at least it has a winch somewhere, right? Right??"

 

[fuchsdh]

Except that Jobs was fundamentally wrong in his observation - trucks aren't going away as 1st world countries transition from agrarian through industrialised to urban societies. Trucks (and 4x4s in general) remain the most popular makes of vehicles (in most markets to an increasing degree), because they fulfil fundamental psychological needs in people.

Jobs being inhumanly wealthy and able to impulse-by any rare-use capability any time he needed it, meant that he fundamentally didn't understand the human need in most people, that they want a truck-function they almost never use, so that it's always without a price-shock if they need to use it.

While some people really need the power, I think you've got a point here as well. There's a segment of people who see "true" computers still as the tower PC model. But I don't think Jobs was wrong, either. Fewer people actually need trucks, and he wasn't predicting they'd go away. Even if they overhaul the software of the iPads they'd be a poor fit for a lot of pro roles, but there are many it could easily subsume. At this point the biggest obstacle to Apple's vision is Apple.

 

[mattspace]

You‘re only talking about the US, right? Because in Europe (for example) you almost never see something like a F-150 on the streets.

Most of the world goes for smaller models than America, the Toyota Hilux for example is THE biggest selling vehicle in Australia, and most of the top 5 are similar. Add in delivery vans like the Ford Transit, which is a truck metaphor.

World-wide the trend is consistent - trucks are increasingly eating the vehicle market, by becoming more luxurious, more comfortable, and displacing the less-versatile car paradigm.

 

[DFP1989]

Most of the world goes for smaller models than America, the Toyota Hilux for example is THE biggest selling vehicle in Australia, and most of the top 5 are similar. Add in delivery vans like the Ford Transit, which is a truck metaphor.

World-wide the trend is consistent - trucks are increasingly eating the vehicle market, by becoming more luxurious, more comfortable, and displacing the less-versatile car paradigm.

Doesn’t help that those larger vehicles aren’t offered here outside of low-volume conversions that cost well in excess of their MSRP in the US. The F-150 would sell great in Aus!

 

[mattspace]

Doesn’t help that those larger vehicles aren’t offered here outside of low-volume conversions that cost well in excess of their MSRP in the US. The F-150 would sell great in Aus!

There’s quite a few of them, and Dodge Rams (which have GM Factory Approved and warranted conversions by HSV now), in my little town - the trailerboat crowd, and the property developer / builder tradies love them, even though they start at around AU$100k.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Yea, the reason all of Europe uses tiny little cars, are the rich people in Europe LOVE the punitive (to the poor/middle class) gas taxes. The peasant's can't really afford them, the rich dont care.

The rich in Europe still have their S600s, Ferraris, and land rovers, and dont give a damn.

So keeps the roads less congested when all the peasants can afford are few to no cars, and if they do get a car, they get a tiny crapmobile because that's all they can afford by way of fuel.

It's not choice. It's coercion.

 

[DFP1989]

There’s quite a few of them, and Dodge Rams (which have GM Factory Approved and warranted conversions by HSV now), in my little town - the trailerboat crowd, and the property developer / builder tradies love them, even though they start at around AU$100k.

As I said, still comparatively low-volume though, "quite a few" isn't on the same level as the regular Hil-Ran-Nav-Tri-Ama utes on sale.

If there were factory RHD versions they could be sold without the conversion markup and sell really well.

 

[mattspace]

As I said, still comparatively low-volume though, "quite a few" isn't on the same level as the regular Hil-Ran-Nav-Tri-Ama utes on sale.

If there were factory RHD versions they could be sold without the conversion markup and sell really well.

sure, the F150 currently starts at around 3x the price of the US market version.

then again, a lot of aspects of our local road infrastructure really isn't designed for the size of American trucks - not that that'll stop people from buying them, again to bring this around to the psychological comfort factor of having a capacity, even if it's unused. People like having 4WD vehicles, even if they never go off road, because the knowledge that if they HAD to, they COULD, represents a significant psychological comfort to them. Slot-based GPUs, ram, storage, separate displays etc are similar.

It reinforces the a real problem with the zero-history people at Apple, that they refuse to believe anything they didn't design, has reached its current paradigm by virtue of virtues, preferring to think it's just cheapness, or laziness. But that's largely because Apple's "design" philosophy, is decorating with minimalism.

 

[archimacpro]

Yeh - I need a MacMiniPro, AND an F150 please. I thinks it's race as to which gets to NZ / Aus first.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Yeh - I need a MacMiniPro, AND an F150 please. I thinks it's race as to which gets to NZ / Aus first.

The UK has the F150 Raptor Mini (aka ranger raptor), so you guys at least got a shot at that!

 

[DFP1989]

lot of aspects of our local road infrastructure really isn't designed for the size of American trucks

Totally, it’s difficult enough parking a Ranger is some places let alone an F-150!

 

[th0masp]

Yea, the reason all of Europe uses tiny little cars, are the rich people in Europe LOVE the punitive (to the poor/middle class) gas taxes. The peasant's can't really afford them, the rich dont care.

Or perhaps it's the size and layout of cities - such a large car would be hard to find a parking space for, you couldn't enter parking garages with it and single file/side streets would be fun too. Not the kind of problem the owner of a Maybach (or Rolls) is likely to concern themselves with.

Beyond that it's simply not seen as desirable to drive something like that. Different car culture and all. Jeep never got a foot in the door either and last time I saw a pretty unusual car parked in my street I had to look up the logo since I did not recognize it at all nor was a brand name visible on the car. I suspected it might have been a new Chinese brand or the like.

Turns out it was a .... Chevrolet.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Or perhaps it's the size and layout of cities - such a large car would be hard to find a parking space for, you couldn't enter parking garages with it and single file/side streets would be fun too. Not the kind of problem the owner of a Maybach (or Rolls) is likely to concern themselves with.

Beyond that it's simply not seen as desirable to drive something like that. Different car culture and all. Jeep never got a foot in the door either and last time I saw a pretty unusual car parked in my street I had to look up the logo since I did not recognize it at all nor was a brand name visible on the car. I suspected it might have been a new Chinese brand or the like.

Turns out it was a .... Chevrolet.

The size and layout of cities doesn't help, but is orthogonal to the taxes. The taxes are what keep everything small, and punish the people. First, not everyone lives in town. Second, the rich still have giant V12 luxury cars and giant SUVs. So yea, it's largely the punitive taxes.

 

[DWHH1]

Apple hasn't lost the plot on the Pro Market - it just isn't interested. It's money comes from selling 'services' - Music, TV, Videos, Apps, Games etc. So it just needs a means to bring the masses to those services. The M1 chip is more cheaper/profitable than Intel equivalents and is fast to achieve that goal and service the vision. It is called M1 because it is the 'mobile' chip - it says it all. The so called 'Pro Market' of high performance machines is tiny in comparison. The days when a Top500 supercomputer can be put together from racks and racks of Apple XServe is now in the rear view mirror - unless Apple announces a new ARM based X1 chip ...

 

[JMacHack]

Yea, the reason all of Europe uses tiny little cars, are the rich people in Europe LOVE the punitive (to the poor/middle class) gas taxes. The peasant's can't really afford them, the rich dont care.

The rich in Europe still have their S600s, Ferraris, and land rovers, and dont give a damn.

So keeps the roads less congested when all the peasants can afford are few to no cars, and if they do get a car, they get a tiny crapmobile because that's all they can afford by way of fuel.

It's not choice. It's coercion.

I ****in wish it was that way in the U.S., I nearly get run over in my hatchback daily by *******s in trucks trying to bully everyone off the road.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I ****in wish it was that way in the U.S., I nearly get run over in my hatchback daily by *******s in trucks trying to bully everyone off the road.

I find people in hatchbacks to be super annoying too. Actually, I find all people annoying. On the road, all the more so. But yea, European roads are fun, if youre part of the .1% and outside the population centers. In the population centers, spaghetti mixed with an outboard motor has a better design than city streets in many European centers.

In the US, you just have to leave the population centers, and vast stretches of non people places. So nice.