Apple is falling behind, M4 Max nowhere close to RTX 5090.

[throAU]

When the M1 Max launched, Apple said that it rivaled the flagship NVIDIA GPU at the time, the RTX 3080.

However, in 2025, when comparing the M4 Max MacBook Pro to PC laptops equipped with the flagship NVIDIA GPU, the RTX 5090, which costs the same as a M4 Max MacBook Pro, the MacBook Pro gets destroyed, it is not even close.

And this is true even on battery power.

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You serious? The RTX5090 runs in up to and above 550 watts. The M4 Max GPU runs in under 120 watts. And includes a CPU.

You might as well compare toasters and refrigerators... they're about as relevant to each other. I mean they both deal with food, right?

 

[leman]

You serious? The RTX5090 runs in up to and above 550 watts. The M4 Max GPU runs in under 120 watts. And includes a CPU.

You might as well compare toasters and refrigerators... they're about as relevant to each other. I mean they both deal with food, right?

To be fair, they are comparing to the 5090 laptop version, which has sub 200W TDP (depending on the model). Of course, M4 Max actually scores ~200k in GB6 compute, so just 10-20% under the much larger 5090 mobile, but there are details someone like OP is willing to ignore.

 

[crazy dave]

not at the top, only 2 in the top 25, 5 in the top 50, etc

I dunno, the numbers are what they are, you can call it "way down" or "nearly the best"

whatever you want

In addition to everything else @OptimusGrime, @leman, and @Homy have already mentioned, Nvidia simply makes more different kinds of GPUs than Apple every generation so having only 2 out of the top 25 or 5 in the top 50 when your competitor makes 5-10x the number of GPUs with minor variations you do for every product class every generation doesn't mean very much. Just to give you an example here is AD102:

NVIDIA AD102 GPU Specs

18432 Cores, 576 TMUs, 192 ROPs

www.techpowerup.com

They make 13 differently named GPUs (Titan never released) from that one base with slightly different bins and features and Nvidia had 5 such Ada Lovelace GPU bases because Nvidia is a GPU company who sells dozens of different GPUs to as many different kinds of customers. In contrast, the closest equivalent to the AD102 GPU Apple has is the Ultra and Apple sells ... two named variants the binned and full and in grand total sells basically 7-8 named variants of their chips every generation. And specifically Nvidia makes more different higher end chips than Apple does - the 11 GPUs beating the M3 Ultra are all AD102/3 and GB202/3 (so 4 actually different GPUs) - while they've abandoned the equivalent to the low end Mx base and binned Mx Pro market almost entirely (the 4050 mobile is somewhat close to the latter, especially the MaxQ variant if you can find it) and that simply reflects the business priorities of the two companies rather than the quality of the top end GPUs. In that latter sense, yes, Apple's best is currently one tier below the top bracket of xx80-90 class GPUs that Nvidia offers.

In summary: for that list, yes Apple is only 2 in the top 25 and 5 in the top 50, but Apple Silicon GPUs are only 30 out of 306 total so 2-to-25 and 5-to-50 is basically exactly where you would expect to find them proportionally*.

*I'm actually surprised it's that many at the top given that, again, Apple tends to have more variants than Nvidia that are simply smaller GPUs. This is probably a consequence of AMD being pretty terrible in Blender with the latest RDNA 4 GPUs not even being listed yet - there are only 66 listed AMD GPUs, in comparison to 188 Nvidia GPUs, and mostly bringing up the rear with the highest score about 4800.

 

[throAU]

To be fair, they are comparing to the 5090 laptop version, which has sub 200W TDP (depending on the model). Of course, M4 Max actually scores ~200k in GB6 compute, so just 10-20% under the much larger 5090 mobile, but there are details someone like OP is willing to ignore.

I guess they also need to include the intel cpu in said laptop that burns 100 plus watts to keep up with the mobile 5090...

 

[Ethosik]

Soon, even a Nintendo Switch or Steam Deck will surpass the Mac in raw power.
Apple better get its act together or it will never be taken seriously for gaming!

Apple needs to stop focusing on the App Store if they ever want to take gaming seriously. If it wasn't for this site I wouldn't even know when games come out. Steam is THE PLATFORM for gaming. They need to better support Steam.

 

[Ethosik]

Desktop PC Gamers don't care about watts. neither do PC laptop gamers.

PC gaming laptops exist because there is a market for them.

High end gaming was never a priority for Apple, even in the days of being able to have dedicated 3rd party graphic cards, they kept making it more difficult for game developers to make games, and they resisted into giving users a choice of the better nVidia graphics on the Intel platform because they were still butthurt from the issues from many years ago.

Apple's idea of gaming on Apple Silicon is for you to subscribe to Apple Arcade.

I care about watts. The 5090 is just laughable how many watts it needs. And I absolutely hate the heat output of my Windows PCs.

 

[daneoni]

Trying to compare S/C high fidelity macOS computers with mono Windows systems is a fools errand. Mac is not a PC and never will be.

Its been said over and over again but it continues to fly over people's heads.

 

[leman]

They need to better support Steam.

What does this even mean? Steam is a third-party commercial app, it’s not like Apple has any control over it.

 

[dmr727]

Of course, M4 Max actually scores ~200k in GB6 compute, so just 10-20% under the much larger 5090 mobile, but there are details someone like OP is willing to ignore.

Yeah, you see certain names and immediately know a thread wasn't made in good faith.

 

[thenewperson]

Apple needs to stop focusing on the App Store if they ever want to take gaming seriously. If it wasn't for this site I wouldn't even know when games come out. Steam is THE PLATFORM for gaming. They need to better support Steam.

Would be foolish for them to stop focusing on the App Store. It’s the main store on their platforms. “Taking gaming seriously” has little to do with stores.

They could do a bit for Mac gamers who use GPTK and integrate better with Steam, though it seems they’re reluctant to do so, based on Nat Brown’s comments after he left.

 

[TracerAnalog]

You actually can compare Macs to Window Pcs, but you have to compare the workflows, the operating systems, the ecosystem, the stability in hard- en software etc.... Benchmarks are an only very narrow aspect of such a comparison.

 

[AlixSPQR]

”Falling behind” in which regard? Are these products used in the same way? Please, enlighten me.

 

[ThailandToo]

For gaming, Nvidia will crush the Mac. However, for LLMs or video production, you can put up to 512GB of unified memory in the Mac Studio Ultra and destroy the Nvidia 5090. Watched a few YT comparison videos. Even when running LLMs locally that are small enough to work on the 5090, it got crushed by the M3 Ultra. Anything that requires VRAM gets crushed except video games. In addition, the power draw was almost comically different. Spend at least 4x as much on the power to run the 5090 when running but in idle mode, spend even more than the M3 Ultra. Almost everything was faster for those two purposes as well as advanced maths and anything science or work would be done on would use a Mac Studio. Games however, would be played on the 5090. Where do you make money? If it’s playing video games, buy the 5090 PC. If you make money like the rest of us quit worrying about it and buy the most Mac Studio you need.

 

[brofkand]

Nvidia has basically been ramping up the power consumption to get higher performance with this generation. That's not a game that Apple wants to play. Apple does not build gaming GPUs so they don't really compete with Nvidia in this area.

 

[Darren.h]

double the gpu cores to 80 . then we have a winner.

Mac gaming is back.

 

[Darren.h]

PS if Apple would just fix the macOS to allow External GPU's plugged in by Thunderbolt 5 it would be Awesome.

No More Apple Tax on CPU cores. Just go buy a 5090 and plug it into your Mac and encourage Nvidia and AMD to put out macOS drivers.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

For about 6x the price i should hope so!!!

Though I doubt it actually. the pc never had an issue with ram

If you run logic benchmark test it scales pretty consistently with cpu regardless of ram

My point was not about price or RAM in the PC. My point was that unlike what the comment stated, a properly built M4 Max laptop will perform better than the decribed desktop PC. It is important, however, that the Mac's Unified Memory Architecture not be constrained by RAM limitations due to inadequate build.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Would be foolish for them to stop focusing on the App Store. It’s the main store on their platforms. “Taking gaming seriously” has little to do with stores.

They could do a bit for Mac gamers who use GPTK and integrate better with Steam, though it seems they’re reluctant to do so, based on Nat Brown’s comments after he left.

The development tools are there for Steam to do whatever they want to do. If Steam doesn’t want to increase the number of Mac users, then that’s on Steam. At some point, I wouldn’t be surprised if Steam just stops supporting Macs explicitly knowing that any Mac user that really wants to play games on a Mac is going to go through whatever they need to do to play the Windows version.

 

[oink_oink]

What does this even mean? Steam is a third-party commercial app, it’s not like Apple has any control over it.

Their Vision Pro flopped because there are no games to play on it, esp. considering the price.
Gaming is big and, with VR/AR, is only getting bigger.

 

[nathansz]

He

My point was that unlike what the comment stated, a properly built M4 Max laptop will perform better than the decribed desktop PC.

This is where you are wrong

It definitely would not. the 14700k has more cores - logic can and does use those cores

regardless, I can attest that logic absolutely did perform better on my hackintosh than my current MacBook Pro.

it shouldn't be surprising that a tower would outperform a laptop

 

[Ethosik]

What does this even mean? Steam is a third-party commercial app, it’s not like Apple has any control over it.

I find it hard to believe companies have windows binaries on Steam and Apple binaries on App Store out of the goodness of their heart. All games should be like Baldurs Gate where Steam has both binaries.

 

[Ethosik]

The development tools are there for Steam to do whatever they want to do. If Steam doesn’t want to increase the number of Mac users, then that’s on Steam. At some point, I wouldn’t be surprised if Steam just stops supporting Macs explicitly knowing that any Mac user that really wants to play games on a Mac is going to go through whatever they need to do to play the Windows version.

And this is where Apple needs to step up. Offer incentives to Valve. Help them keep the development costs up for Steam. Apple already assists devs with their games. They need to show support for the biggest gaming platform.

 

[IJustWannaTalk]

When the M1 Max launched, Apple said that it rivaled the flagship NVIDIA GPU at the time, the RTX 3080.

However, in 2025, when comparing the M4 Max MacBook Pro to PC laptops equipped with the flagship NVIDIA GPU, the RTX 5090, which costs the same as a M4 Max MacBook Pro, the MacBook Pro gets destroyed, it is not even close.

And this is true even on battery power.

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When has Apple ever competed on computing power/speed alone?

 

[IJustWannaTalk]

Soon, even a Nintendo Switch or Steam Deck will surpass the Mac in raw power.
Apple better get its act together or it will never be taken seriously for gaming!

...when has it ever been?

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Their Vision Pro flopped because there are no games to play on it, esp. considering the price.
Gaming is big and, with VR/AR, is only getting bigger.

Except that the Vision Pro did not flop, it just is what it is; think of it as experimental tech prototype. And it is well done. You are correct that software has lots of evolving to occur.