Apple is not going to stop starting at 8GB anytime soon. And that's good.

[sw1tcher]

Apple is all about being able to say their devices start at some low price, but carefully crafting a ladder of upgrades that most users need. The iMac starts at I believe $1300 but most users should get the $1800 configuration with more memory, storage, and ports.

Exactly.

Let's say you're a student. You see that you can buy a Mac for as little as $499 (Mac mini through Education store), but there's no keyboard, mouse, or monitor.

Least expensive monitor Apple sells is the Studio Display for $1,499 🤣

Add the Magic Mouse ($99) and Magic keyboard ($99) and you're over $2,000

Apple execs don't live in the real world.

 

[scrapesleon]

Wow, you guys will find out inventive ways to rationalize every crappy Apple practice lol

With this train of thought, you might as well keep all the macs at 128gb/8gb ram because "the average user doesn't need it, everyone uses the cloud". C'mon, just pony up $100 for 256gb, $300 for 512gb, or $500 for 1tb and another $200/$400 for 16/32gb of ram to pay your power user tax.

EDIT: Your only job as a consumer should be to make sure you get the value you deserve for how much you're spending on a product. I'm sure you guys do this for everything else you buy, but turn a blind eye when it comes to Apple.

I don’t why they try every means to justify Apple ridiculous 8gig in 2023

 

[TechnoMonk]

How does the 8GB Unified Ram compare to 16GB Ram and a 8GB or 12 GB GPU in pc? I have 16GB ram and 12GB VRam GPU. How does the Unified compare to that? I have no swap, no sharing, just dedicated Ram for each purpose.

Genuine Q, I am a windows user since the original iMac I owned, the purple, late 90's? Recently bought an MBA 15" with 16GB, because until I can see real results, I just don't believe 8GB can ever be equal to 16GB ram with a dedicated GPU of 8 or more VRam

The laptops with dedicated NVidia GPU of 8 GB or more RAM using 4060-4070 or above aren’t cheap. I have a AMD thread ripper/4090 workstation and M1 Max 64 GB. My 4090 is restricted to 24 GB VRAM, though I have 128 GB RAM. Though 4090 is faster, it runs out of memory compared to my M1 Max with 64 GB unified memory.

If you have a 16 GB unified memory, and a windows laptop with 16 GB Ram and 8 GB ram, it’s possible you can run something which needs 12GB GPU VRAM on the ‘MBA.

I have a M2 MBA 13 base model for family use, it isn’t as powerful as my M1 Max, but does the job for my kids and spouse.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Exactly.

Let's say you're a student. You see that you can buy a Mac for as little as $499 (Mac mini through Education store), but there's no keyboard, mouse, or monitor.

Least expensive monitor Apple sells is the Studio Display for $1,499 🤣

Add the Magic Mouse ($99) and Magic keyboard ($99) and you're over $2,000

Apple execs don't live in the real world.

Why does a student need studio display? I am a pro and I didn’t buy studio display. If a guy is buying 499 Mac mini with studio display, there are bigger issues than Apple. You can get a good display for under 250-300 bucks.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Is 8GB of Apple RAM equal to 16GB? I doubt that. But it is definitely more efficient, and with dynamic caching, even more efficient than we've seen it become.

Is it equal to 12GB of PC RAM? 10GB?

Apple isn't going to stop starting at 8GB anytime soon. They know that bumping up the low end will increase costs across the board...and especially since going to Apple Silicon, 8GB is a good amount if you're a simple user who doesn't run many apps at the same time, or you don't have 40 tabs open.

It's actually good they aren't just going to 16GB, because it incentizes them to make the system as efficient as possible, which pays dividends by making all Macs better machines. And if you are reading this, you're a power user—you come to Macrumors, come on—so you already know you want at least 16GB, so pay the tax.

It's not smoke and mirrors—Apple Silicon does use RAM better, and 8GB is increasingly enough depending on what you do with it. Bleating over and over that Apple "needs" to give away double that amount is silly...they will only do that if they look at what their average user is doing with the machines, and seeing that those folks are starting to have real memory pressure at such a level that the floor needs to be raised.

And when they do—count on it being 12 GB, not 16.

In the meantime...just buy your damn RAM up to 16GB if you are obsessing over it!

I am all for Apple increasing RAM to 16 GB if they can keep the price same. I wouldn’t be surprised if the RAM gets bumped from 8 GB in 1-2 years.

 

[sw1tcher]

Why does a student need studio display?

A student doesn't need a Studio Display, hence my "Apple execs don't live in the real world" statement.

It's ridiculous that Apple doesn't offer anything less expensive.

You could say the same for their $99 mouse and $99 keyboard.

Just Apple being Apple*

*greedy

 

[Mcdevidr]

Exactly.

Let's say you're a student. You see that you can buy a Mac for as little as $499 (Mac mini through Education store), but there's no keyboard, mouse, or monitor.

Least expensive monitor Apple sells is the Studio Display for $1,499 🤣

Add the Magic Mouse ($99) and Magic keyboard ($99) and you're over $2,000

Apple execs don't live in the real world.

Neither do people here. Have you seen the recommendations. “If you’re gonna keep your computer for 4 years you need 32gb ram minimum” , “why get the m3 pro it’s such a bad value proposition just get the $2799 m3 max because that will give you a warm feeling inside”.

 

[fanboy-ish]

In my experience macOS is not that efficient.

Safari with 4 tabs, Apple Music, running the latest Sonoma on a 2020 i5 Intel MacBook Air and my Mac is using 6.5 GB of RAM plus 2,34 GB of swap. I'm also experiencing a pretty noticeable performance drop since installing Sonoma (apps, even Apple's own apps, take longer to launch and to open files, it takes less apps open at the same time to slow down the system).

My Windows laptop is from 2017, it's a Dell, 8th gen i5 and 8 GB of RAM, and it's snappier than my newer and considerably more expensive Mac (around 600€ more expensive), I'd be inclined to argue that Windows is more efficient than macOS.

 

[oldmacs]

This would be all totally fine if you could upgrade after purchase and if the 8GB Macs were reasonably priced. But neither is true. Macs with 8GB of soldered ram are going to have a limited lifespan and that’s not great for the environment.

 

[iLuddite]

“…And that’s a Good Thing!™” 🤡🤡🤡🤡

 

[Telekinetic]

8GB of RAM is actually less on a Mac than in many PCs because it has to be shared with the GPU. No dedicated VRAM on any Mac sold today.

The most offensive thing about the 8GB/256GB starting config is that getting it up to 16GB/512GB costs so much money. It is completely detached from memory pricing and is pure margin.

Not just the GPU but also the SSD controller. My desktop (running Linux) has 16GB RAM, 4GB VRAM and its SSD contains 2GB of DRAM for cache. That's 22GB total memory in a machine that nominally has 16GB. I have wished at times that it had even more.

I wouldn't feel comfortable buying a new Mac with less than 24GB and, ideally, I'd want more but the next leg up (binned M3 Pro with 36GB) adds a lot to the price.

 

[GSWForever8]

You meant it was good for the company.

8gb is barely enough for me

 

[vinegarshots]

Is 8GB of Apple RAM equal to 16GB? I doubt that. But it is definitely more efficient, and with dynamic caching, even more efficient than we've seen it become.

Is it equal to 12GB of PC RAM? 10GB?

Apple isn't going to stop starting at 8GB anytime soon. They know that bumping up the low end will increase costs across the board...and especially since going to Apple Silicon, 8GB is a good amount if you're a simple user who doesn't run many apps at the same time, or you don't have 40 tabs open.

It's actually good they aren't just going to 16GB, because it incentizes them to make the system as efficient as possible, which pays dividends by making all Macs better machines. And if you are reading this, you're a power user—you come to Macrumors, come on—so you already know you want at least 16GB, so pay the tax.

It's not smoke and mirrors—Apple Silicon does use RAM better, and 8GB is increasingly enough depending on what you do with it. Bleating over and over that Apple "needs" to give away double that amount is silly...they will only do that if they look at what their average user is doing with the machines, and seeing that those folks are starting to have real memory pressure at such a level that the floor needs to be raised.

And when they do—count on it being 12 GB, not 16.

In the meantime...just buy your damn RAM up to 16GB if you are obsessing over it!

This post sounds like it was written by someone with Stockholm Sydrome

 

[Saturn1217]

The way I see it you can either be a budget brand, and then offer 8gb of ram which isn't enough for most people, but you are offering this in a package that is priced BELOW the average for that category in the market so it is ok.

OR

You are a premium brand and you don't cut corners and you charge your customers for this. In that case yes people need to pay more, but they can trust that they are getting a machine without major compromises.

Apple is trying to double dip here. A $1600 computer shouldn't come with 8gb of ram. Just because it isn't the absurd $1999 that their Pro line used to start with doesn't mean it is a "budget" laptop. At the prices Apple charges, they should not be nickel and dimeing like this.

 

[lJoSquaredl]

8gb is still perfectly fine for probably 90% of people, tho for a Pro machine it's a bit odd to start at that. However I think people would be much less aggravated about it if the upgrade to 16GB was only $100, I would assume that's still more than the doubling of RAM costs but it's at least much less tilting.

 

[ignatius345]

Is 8GB of Apple RAM equal to 16GB? I doubt that. But it is definitely more efficient, and with dynamic caching, even more efficient than we've seen it become.

Agree with the OP here. I would WAY rather have an inexpensive base model available than be forced to buy the 16GB machine that I may not need.

If you need 16 GB of RAM, buy 16 GB of RAM. The button is right there. It costs $200. Move on.

 

[Saturn1217]

8gb is still perfectly fine for probably 90% of people, tho for a Pro machine it's a bit odd to start at that. However I think people would be much less aggravated about it if the upgrade to 16GB was only $100, I would assume that's still more than the doubling of RAM costs but it's at least much less tilting.

I think even just having the next step up come with 16gb of ram (same for the MBAs too) would be a very reasonable compromise. The $1799 M3 14" MBP also only comes with 8gb of ram and that is the version (stock model) that will be resold at resellers with discounts in the future. It sucks that 16gb isn't an option on at least ONE stock version of each model Apple sells.

 

[conmee]

I miss the days of Apple being on its perennial corporate deathbed and catering only to the creatives, misfits and the differently thinkers. The days when the Reality Distortion Field™️ was unassailable. Since Apple became a lifestyle brand, I’m all for them sticking the plebs with 8GB/256GB and ratcheting up the price for usable memory and storage. Need to thin the herd of all the whiners and poseurs and cheapskates and deadbeats. If you can’t afford a proper configuration, get a job, take out a loan, or leave for the PC plantation. You aren’t entitled to more than 8GB. My Mercedes dealer said the same thing when I told him the CLA should have the same trunk space as the S550 since I want to future proof the CLA for future family roadtrips. I was promptly escorted to the Nissan lot next door. Good day, sir!

 

[code-m]

As some have mentioned people will justify any of Apple’s questionable and cheap decisions that can benefit the customer. Are we to believe that going from 8GB to even 12GB or 16GB base RAM is going to hurt this companies bottom line, nope considering the discounts with it receive and keeping it simple. Watch just like the Lightening connector when Apple is called out and it makes some weird justification to defend its current hardware offering the 8GB base model will be dropped for a 12GB base model. The line up will look like 12GB/24GB/36GB for the consumer line while the prosumer will be 16GB/32GB/64GB and the pro versions will look like 32GB/64GB/128GB or some flavour in between.

Anyone purchasing a 8GB model this late in 2023, I have no words.

 

[AlastorKatriona]

There are 2 ways it could go, and neither is a good option for Apple.

1. If they simply drop the base models with 8GB and only offer the next tier up as base with prices unchanged, they will price out a significant section of the market, and lose revenue.

2. If they instead slide the 16 GB model down to the base model tier and price it the same as today's base model, that would actually make the base model incredibly attractive, and it would sell very well...too well. Apple would miss out on a lot of BTO upgrades which where a large chunk of Mac revenue comes from. And thus, they would ultimately lose revenue.

So please, in the infinite wisdom of the know it alls of Macrumors, please explain why either of these bad decisions is something Apple should do. Clearly they know what they're doing, and know how to make money.

 

[macduke]

This is the worst take I've seen on these forums in my 16 years.

 

[Sami13496]

Wow, you guys will find out inventive ways to rationalize every crappy Apple practice lol

With this train of thought, you might as well keep all the macs at 128gb/8gb ram because "the average user doesn't need it, everyone uses the cloud". C'mon, just pony up $100 for 256gb, $300 for 512gb, or $500 for 1tb and another $200/$400 for 16/32gb of ram to pay your power user tax.

EDIT: Your only job as a consumer should be to make sure you get the value you deserve for how much you're spending on a product. I'm sure you guys do this for everything else you buy, but turn a blind eye when it comes to Apple.

You are 100% correct. I do this for everything else I buy. But in this situation I have a problem. You see I don’t want to buy those other options. I mean those flimsy ugly devices. Or even it has decent design it runs Windows. So what can I do? How can I make sure I get the value I deserve if there is no other options but Macs.

 

[mrmister]

Your only job as a consumer should be to make sure you get the value you deserve for how much you're spending on a product. I'm sure you guys do this for everything else you buy, but turn a blind eye when it comes to Apple.

Oh, I agree with you. But you're dreaming when you think they are going to go to 16GB.

 

[CrysisDeu]

Have you seen how insanely cheap ram chips and ssds are getting?

 

[mrmister]

"Even relatively casual users who load up on browser tabs and inefficient Electron apps (household names like Slack, Teams, Discord, etc.) can find performance compromised by running out of RAM."

Good—if that's really true, the pressure will eventually mean they will increase the RAM floor.

Except it will not. In the last year Chrome learned how to cache pages to not kill the CPU, and those advances will keep happening.

I'm happy with a free 16GB. It isn't happening.