I never thought I'd hear you say this. The notch is here to stay because that's the only way people will be able to identify an iPhone amongst the sea of bezelless phones. Its hard to distinuguish an S8 and LG V30 from the front but not this iphonePutting aside all the Steve Jobs talk (because honestly it's been long enough, and Apple is far more successful now than when he was around, so clearly they're still doing well)...
I agree regarding Samsung designing a better-looking product this time around.
Personally, I'd rather have a device like this:
or like this:
rather than one like this, where you have a non-rectangular screen with a blotch permanently missing from it:
Not just from a design perspective, but from a usability perspective; this design will force white bars and other workarounds in order to prevent your content from being blocked. I'm sure the solution that they have to this problem is great, but it's a problem that should never have existed in the first place.
So yeah. Samsung won design this time. I understand that the hype is now high for these new products, but we sometimes must put aside our own brand loyalty and give credit where it's due.
The best thing Apple could have done with the design to make the notch less noticeable would have been to make the UI render only outside the "ear" area, making the ear area exist only for the status bar... but they couldn't do that because OLED burn-in.
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Apple is really terrible without Steve Jobs
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I don't say "Steve Jobs would never..." ever.
But in this case, I believe it's true. Steve would not have signed off on the iPhone X. No way in hell.
The one thing we know is Steve hated when technology got in the way. That notch is literally in the way of everything.
iPhone X and the Touch Bar Macs are the WORST products made by Apple since Steve's passing.
The worst thing about the notch is that it only exists to let others know you have an iPhone. It serves no purpose other than that. Apple is getting to be very arrogant.
I can't speak (Nor would I pretend) to what he would say today regarding the iPhone or any other Apple product. But so many times, I see these posts that people act like they know his mindset to a T, and they don't. I understand he was particular and inpredictable, but no one in a tech forum can truly speak for what his intentions were or are in today's technological world.
I don't see how the touch bar MBP are bad design - they are quite elegant and well designed.
All of these products were designed by Jon Ive, so either Ive has lost his touch (it's quite possible after all these years) or people are making a big deal out of something they believe is ugly.
Personally I believe iPhone's have been getting uglier since the iPhone 6 and I'm not sure the old apple would have done stuff like the 5C or SE either. Let's not even talk about the fact of having a boat load of model's at the same time.
In that sense, I do agree Apple's product line-up is too confusing. Sometimes giving too much choice to customers ends up confusing them and losing a sale.
Obviously no one can say exactly what Steve would think, but we certainly know what questions he would likely ask if the iPhone X was brought to him.
Why is the notch there?
What problems does this iPhone X solve to make the user's life better in some way?
Is this the best experience for the customer?
I would wager he wouldn't like the answers to those questions.
The current lineup of iPhones is not confusing, it's outrageous!
iPhone SE
iPhone 6
iPhone 6 Plus
iPhone 7
iPhone 7 Plus
iPhone 8
iPhone 8 Plus
iPhone X (soon)
I miss Steve Jobs :/
You are being more specific reference a feature or Product, as I am or commenting towards the generality of his actual mindset.
But For example of a Product reference Jobs contribution , when the Apple Watch first launched back in 2015, I read so many disparaging comments saying "Jobs never would've done this", "Steve Jobs would never release a hideous toy or a gimmick Apple Watch", "Steve Jobs doesn't care about a smart watch", etc. And little did those naysayers understand, that was actually was One of the last products Steve Jobs he was working with Jony Ive in 2011 . So it goes to show you ignorance is beyond someone's understanding making blatant Statements on the internet. And now look for the Apple Watch is, number one selling watch in the world.
Having the user look at the keyboard is bad design. Taking away magsafe hurts the user's experience. Removing ports actually makes the tech more intrustive, and less seamless in our lives.
It's bad design all around.
I have the last generation Macbook pro design, I brought it home and it easily became part of my life and solved problems without me needing to think about it.
That's the goal. Not selling dongles at an inflated price.
I agree and it's something that never existed before. You had the current model and previous model that was discounted just because stock was left over. IMHO, old Apple would have ditched the 6S/+ and never produced the 8 (and if the 8 was produced the 7 would have been out).
We've had tons of threads where people debate between the 8+ and X, think about it long then end up looking at a Galaxy Note 8 because the 8+ and X are all over the place in offering half of what people want on one and other parts.
Both phones are a compromise and that's something that apple has never had before. It's the reason why Apple is now in danger and partly down to having the same people in their jobs for years now - Apple is complacent, led by wall street and doesn't think about design or end consumers anymore.
Apple Watch is not the same as the iPhone X.
Does Apple Watch solve problems? Yes
Is it seamless in our lives and gets out the way? Outside of charging, I'd say yes.
Is it the best experience for the customer? Compared to other smart watches, it certainly does, though the Samsung S3 Frontier is pretty darn close in many ways.
It's not an appropriate comparison by any means.
Technology itself is NOT the destination. How the technology helps you get to a destination is the real goal.
I think this is simply a wider issue of the entire mobile device industry running out of ideas. The new iPhones don't set the tempo for the next ten years because they're still playing catch-up with Samsung (albeit with incremental improvements), but that's not to say that the Samsung S8 was particularly exciting either.
No, it's not the same thing. And This not about the Apple Watch solving problems or in comparison to a Samsung Frontier. That's irrelevant to what I'm talking about. What you are not understanding, is I'm not comparing the Apple Watch to the iPhone X. We are talking about Steve Jobs here, are we not ? You're stating that he would disapprove of the new iPhone notch and/or design. I simply stated no one can understand his mindset and what he would approve or disapprove of In today's world of Apples path with direction. I'm Not questioning what he would approve of or not, as Thats not my point. I'm simply getting at the fact that you, I, or anyone else can predict his mentality and approach to where Apple would be today based on product design, sales and/or the future of this company. The reason I listed the Apple Watch as an example, is because that was a product that was also doubted that he had any contribution Or fulfillment with, when it's complete opposite, that he did in fact have a hand in the design, given there are those who claim he never would have designed a 'mini iPhone. '
It's not a Matter of what Apple implements for design for an iPhone or any other product, a tech forum full of opinionated members is not equivalent to real world experience what somebody will purchase as a basic consumer. They don't see the technicality behind implementation of design that tech enthusiasts do. Most consumers just purchased a phone to use it, they don't sit there and stare at the notch all day long and wonder why Apple did this. The reality is , consumers purchase what's in front of them in the store, they don't go to tech sites to visit every specification or detail based on what someone else is saying about a specific feature they don't like. That's not practical.
Hey man I've never been a fanboy. Like yeah I've always defended Apple where I thought they needed defending, but I've never been afraid to give credit to Samsung for some of the great ideas they've had over the years (ideas that Apple has 'borrowed' from time and time again).
The iPhone X is, in my opinion, a missed opportunity. Don't quote me on this, but I feel like this year, sales won't break records as they have been in the past. Just a gut feeling.
The iPhone 8 Plus is a better offering this time, in my opinion. A bigger usable screen, a more mature collection of technology, and a tried-and-true design that likely won't introduce any new defects, along with better battery life and a faster authentication method. Oh and it's 200 dollars less (300ish less in Canada).
That’s my thoughts as well. The display part needs to be emphasized for any Plus users thinking buying an X. The 5.5” will actually be larger than 5.8” because the entire display is usable for content. The is especially true for video.
At the most, he had a few conversations about watches with Jobs.
Ive has stated that the Watch project began about the time Jobs died, or after. It was not a Jobs product.
Likewise, people had talked to Jobs about doing bigger phones and smaller tablets, but those only took off as actual products after Jobs died. That left the remaining execs free to come up with phablet iPhones and the iPad mini.
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I don't doubt your statement, but If you have a source, please provide. Furthermore, a few conversations with Ive or not likely would have had more involvement with the Apple Watch regardless if Jobs were present today. Even so, who exactly knows where Jobs would have completely envisioned the Apple Watch trajectory, even if Marc Newson or Jonny Ive were behind the development.
Putting aside all the Steve Jobs talk (because honestly it's been long enough, and Apple is far more successful now than when he was around, so clearly they're still doing well)...
I agree regarding Samsung designing a better-looking product this time around.
Personally, I'd rather have a device like this:
or like this:
rather than one like this, where you have a non-rectangular screen with a blotch permanently missing from it:
Not just from a design perspective, but from a usability perspective; this design will force white bars and other workarounds in order to prevent your content from being blocked. I'm sure the solution that they have to this problem is great, but it's a problem that should never have existed in the first place.
So yeah. Samsung won design this time. I understand that the hype is now high for these new products, but we sometimes must put aside our own brand loyalty and give credit where it's due.
The best thing Apple could have done with the design to make the notch less noticeable would have been to make the UI render only outside the "ear" area, making the ear area exist only for the status bar... but they couldn't do that because OLED burn-in.
My thoughts about this were similar, from a design perspective. I thougt the ears would be more contextually aware. More like a notification area than a status bar. Left side lights up green for answer, right side red for decline. Black most of the time with just the status bar. It seems now apple only want to use it for status. And non interactive reasons. Which just removes some of the usefulness of the high priced screen.
I've never heard anyone claim that Jobs was involved with the Watch before. On the contrary, it's often touted as proof Apple can create new products without Jobs. E.g.
and insiders say that Ive started the project after Jobs died:
True.
My own opinion is that Jobs would never have allowed so many different input methods. They even confused Apple store employees the first week. It was not an easy to learn UI.
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Based off this quote below, we don't know the mindset of Jobs or his ideas behind the Apple Watch due to the fact it was around or at the time of his passing. What we do know, was he was aware of the project or concept behind it. I understand he wasn't behind the actual project at the time it was in mainstream development, but I question what thoughts he had or the direction the Apple Watch would be at today if he was here.
But I agree, I think it would have been a project where he would have wanted limited input based on the Apple Watches user interface. And I do think Apple is a company that can create projects away from his leadership style. The HomePod is an example of new product that is away from Jobs direction, even though I don't know if he would have himself worked on a smart Speaker era.
Why is it outrageous. Seems like buying a car, which can be difficult or easy, depending on your mindset, there are differing choices for the consumer. Do people say Samsung offers 15 models of tvs and it's outrageous. It's not like people aren't used to buying electronics with many options available. This is the new apple, not the old apple.
Steve would have blasted whoever proposed the notch. And rightfully so, it's so ugly! He would do a June 2018' launch and get it right. In defense of Apple though, only Steve can get away with that. The board of directors runs the show, so the extraordinary days are gone.
All that said though, I can't believe people are defending the notch. It's so bad.
You are totally right. But here is the thing...
Apple is no longer and innovation technology, it is a cash cow. Jobs was a creative mind who wanted to change the world, the people at Apple today are old man who just want to retire and wants to make money. Samsung wants to innovate because they need to do so.
I just sold my 2008 Mac pro for $800 with two 30" Apple cinema displays included, no one wanted to buy that configuration because is old even it works like a wonder. Now Apple wants to sell a $1000 phone for leisure because you do not need any of those features for anything, it could be an status symbol at the most. But that is who is Apple today, a cash cow.
...and wait until the new iMac comes out with all those 18 cores.. $20K at least. I still have my iPhone 5 up and running just fine.